Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[LittleBuford]

He absolutely had his faults, and yes, what is acceptable or considered bigoted or racist changes as society changes. But what I'm trying to say is that the behaviors Walt exhibited were likely a product of the time in which he lived...rather than being based on hatred or fear.

I sort of agree, except that I would say that hatred and fear ultimately underlie all kinds of racism—one can’t really disentangle cause and effect so neatly.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I sort of agree, except that I would say that hatred and fear ultimately underlie all kinds of racism—one can’t really disentangle them so neatly.

I would add ignorance as well. Not ignorance meaning lack of intelligence, but ignorance due to lack of knowledge and exposure to that with which they are not familiar.

 

[LittleBuford]

I would add ignorance as well. Not ignorance meaning lack of intelligence, but ignorance due to lack of knowledge and exposure to that with which they are not familiar.

One of my teachers used to tell us, “Prejudice, ignorance, and fear walk hand-in-hand.” It’s still stuck with me after all these years.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

One of my teachers used to tell us, “Prejudice, ignorance, and fear walk hand-in-hand.” It’s still stuck with me after all these years.

Sounds like a great teacher!

 

[Chi84]

One of my teachers used to tell us, “Prejudice, ignorance, and fear walk hand-in-hand.” It’s still stuck with me after all these years.

I can understand the point @ImperfectPixie is making, though. It’s true that racist stereotypes were born out of hatred and fear, but they were often perpetuated by basically decent people out of ignorance or inadvertence.

My mother used to say things like “He was a [insert race or ethnicity] guy but he knew his job better than anyone else.” To her that was a compliment because that’s the kind of attitude she was raised with and exposed to growing up. She didn’t have a hateful bone in her body. The good thing is that she had an open mind and was willing to discuss, re-examine and reassess her beliefs and recognize the underlying prejudice. Too many people dig in instead of listening and communicating.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I can understand the point @ImperfectPixie is making, though. It’s true that racist stereotypes were born out of hatred and fear, but they were often perpetuated by basically decent people out of ignorance or inadvertence.

My mother used to say things like “He was a [insert race or ethnicity] guy but he knew his job better than anyone else.” To her that was a compliment because that’s the kind of attitude she was raised with and exposed to growing up. She didn’t have a hateful bone in her body. The good thing is that she had an open mind and was willing to discuss, re-examine and reassess her beliefs and recognize the underlying prejudice. Too many people dig in instead of listening and communicating.

Exactly. And there are some posters here who would never acknowledge that there's a significant difference between your mother and someone who believes in white supremacy.

 

[Chi84]

Exactly. And there are some posters here who would never acknowledge that there's a significant difference between your mother and someone who believes in white supremacy.

They would if they met her She may have harbored some underlying prejudices, but her ideas evolved over time and I believe she always was an outspoken opponent of outright hate groups.

 

[LittleBuford]

I can understand the point @ImperfectPixie is making, though. It’s true that racist stereotypes were born out of hatred and fear, but they were often perpetuated by basically decent people out of ignorance or inadvertence.

My mother used to say things like “He was a [insert race or ethnicity] guy but he knew his job better than anyone else.” To her that was a compliment because that’s the kind of attitude she was raised with and exposed to growing up. She didn’t have a hateful bone in her body. The good thing is that she had an open mind and was willing to discuss, re-examine and reassess her beliefs and recognize the underlying prejudice. Too many people dig in instead of listening and communicating.

I didn’t meant to suggest otherwise, and I tried to make my point in a way that indicated that good people can, without realising it, internalise and perpetuate racist attitudes (which is why I wrote “ultimately underlie” rather than something less mitigated).

 

[Brer Panther]

Please tell me how Brer Rabbit existing is somehow more offensive than the jokes made about Raj's skin color on The Big Bang Theory.

Seriously, there's one episode where he says, "I'm not dark chocolate... I'm melt-in-your-mouth caramel!"

How is that not racist?

 

[Parker in NYC]

Please tell me how Brer Rabbit existing is somehow more offensive than the jokes made about Raj's skin color on The Big Bang Theory.

Seriously, there's one episode where he says, "I'm not dark chocolate... I'm melt-in-your-mouth caramel!"

How is that not racist?

That show ended.

 

[Brer Panther]

That show ended.

Yeah, but reruns are still airing on a bunch of different channels. How come nobody's asking for them to be removed?

Also, the show was still running when the complaints about Apu from The Simpsons were going on.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Yeah, but reruns are still airing on a bunch of different channels. How come nobody's asking for them to be removed?

Also, the show was still running when the complaints about Apu from The Simpsons were going on.

Because people hate Disney.

 

[Chi84]

I don't think people hate Disney, but they do realize it's a much bigger platform than a single TV show.

 

[celluloid]

*Very* aware.

Oh I forgot The hippies are calling it "woke" now, same thing, different name.

 

[Brer Panther]

So "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" is racist because it's from a problematic film. Is "You Can Fly" racist because it comes from a movie that also features offensive stereotypes of Native Americans?

 

[Magenta Panther]

For you maybe, but since you're not everybody, don't try to speak for everybody.

I've grown up seeing the character from SotS sing that song over and over again. Before the song went into the permanent vault, that movie clip was on TV with just about every Disney show. It's indelibly printed in my mind to see James Baskett singing it when I hear it.

The irony is that you two understand it separated from its source because Disney was embarrassed (rightfully so) of the source. Disney tried to 'save' the song and animation from that public relations train wreck by burying the source.

But there are lots of people very aware of the source.

*Very* aware.

Aw, did being aware of that hurt you in the feel feels?

No doubt James Baskett is looking down from heaven and saying, "Thank you, SJW prude, for helping to keep my Oscar-winning performance of an Oscar-winning song locked in the Disney vault forever."

 

[Magenta Panther]

And for 12 years, I didn’t know who was giving the remarkable Academy Award winning performance. Just the voice. I think that’s the biggest crime of all. But I realize I’m no longer allowed to appreciate that, so I’ll cut this short.

Don't let the SJWs intimidate you. I saw SotS as a kid and loved it. Uncle Remus reminded me of my grandpa, who died when I was very young. I thought Remus was amazing. Nothing in that movie or in his performance made me think of him as a lesser being. Kids must be carefully taught to see racism in every corner. If you ask me, having a black man as a villain in the first animated Disney film starring a black princess (of sorts) can be seen as racist. How come none of the white people in that film were the villain? Why, the villain's minion is a literal shadow! "Shadow" and "shade" can be used as racial slurs, don't you know. See how this works?

 

[Touchdown]

Don't let the SJWs intimidate you. I saw SotS as a kid and loved it. Uncle Remus reminded me of my grandpa, who died when I was very young. I thought Remus was amazing. Nothing in that movie or in his performance made me think of him as a lesser being. Kids must be carefully taught to see racism in every corner. If you ask me, having a black man as a villain in the first animated Disney film starring a black princess (of sorts) can be seen as racist. How come none of the white people in that film were the villain? Why, the villain's minion is a literal shadow! "Shadow" and "shade" can be used as racial slurs, don't you know. See how this works?

Youre right, the real estate agents and Lawerence weren’t evil in the slightest; all the white people in PatF were saints .

 

[Disneyson]

So "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" is racist because it's from a problematic film. Is "You Can Fly" racist because it comes from a movie that also features offensive stereotypes of Native Americans?

No, because that song is about flying and believing in the power of happy memories to transport you to a magical place. In the film, “Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah” is also about being transported to a magical place. But this time Uncle Remus conjures “happy memories” of a a time when he was younger, an era of slavery, a time when, as he says in the film just moments before singing the song, "...'TWAS BETTER ALL 'ROUND.” The song from Peter Pan you are thinking of is “What Made The Red Man Red”.

I do think that Disney needs to address the extended sequence in Peter Pan that is built almost exclusively on racial stereotypes. I also think that there are issues just in general with equating a heavy stereotyped version of indigenous people with pirates, fairies, and mermaids, and the way the Darling children treat them as “curiosities”. But altering the movie, say, on Disney+, will create much more commotion than anything related to SotS. I wonder when Disney will have the guts to do that.

The thing about Disney movies is that yes, they are art. I am not one to call for changing the past, as the past is the way we learn about ourselves and can avoid making errors in the future. But Disney movies are not normal movies. They’re often the first features we see, and are also incredibly important to the structural growth of children all around the world, specifically in the United States. I am of the opinion that all art should be available to be viewed in context. But it is also incredibly important to remember that these stories from 1939 onward are still being viewed today. Many hold up.

I know that a big part of my life, the desire to strive towards selflessness and compassion, was heavily formed in me by Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. For better or for worse, I learned to go to extremes to achieve my dreams from The Little Mermaid. I learned how to understand my father’s workaholism and the fact that my parents had lives separate from mine with Mary Poppins. I also erroneously learned that native people were fundamentally different types of creatures than me that don’t speak proper English and live in a different world that I, like Wendy, do not live in and don’t have any lasting impact on. This is from Peter Pan. Hilariously, Pocahontas was the film that immediately gave me context and helped dispel this — don’t worry, I’ve learned a lot since then, I’m not saying that my only source of emotional intelligence comes from Disney movies. What I am saying is that I am unsure what I would learn from Song of the South if it was part of my life while growing up.

This is the problem with Splash Mountain. It works incredibly well almost entirely out-of-context. However, that is if you ignore the parallels with Bre’r Rabbit to a runaway slave, being chased by white-coded assailants, and then eventually learning that “home sweet home is the lesson today,” learning never again to try to run away, challenge authority, or disrupt the status quo. The thought of the parallels send a shiver down my spine, and I would think it a crazy YouTube conspiracy theory if there were not evidence to back up the reading of this seemingly innocuous story of “going back home where you belong”.

That is surely not the intention of the ride’s story. I think, out of context, the story is akin to The Wizard Of Oz. It is sweet and joyful. And it is a big part about why I love the attraction. It is my favorite one. But the connotation is there. And that is in my opinion why this decision has been made.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I do think that Disney needs to address the extended sequence in Peter Pan that is built almost exclusively on racial stereotypes.

But we know they won't. Same with the crows in Dumbo and any other racial/cultural stereotype in any other Disney movie that isn't Song of the South. Disney threw out one movie to show they "care" so they can save the rest and keep promoting them.

They've put more effort into making new properties with diverse characters, and I think that's more important and effective than constantly scrubbing older properties to fit ever changing views.