1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
lol I like how you went from an article from 2014 to 2018 to prove your point after your last article got called out lol
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Splash Mountain re-theme announced
- Thread starter DCBaker
- Start date
- Status
Phil12
Well-Known Member
Both support the facts of the matter. And being "called out" by someone who denies historical facts is really just a matter of helping to educate them by bringing those facts to their attention. Perhaps it will encourage them to learn more about the subject.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
No they don't the first one directly contradicted your ice cream truck example.
aw14
Well-Known Member
Except the part of your article I quote that directly contradicts “your point”.
Any more articles you decide to post and not read?
Phil12
Well-Known Member
It's not important that you have chosen to ignore historical fact and contemporary consensus of the matter. The important thing is that TWDC recognizes the problem and has taken decisive steps to mitigate the issues. And that will be good for the continued success of the company. We will lose Splash Mountain but I feel confident that the new attraction will be very entertaining without all of the racist baggage inherent in the old Song of the South version.
I think TWDC could have done a better job in creating the disclaimer they're using on the old movies and cartoons that contain racist elements. Warner Brothers has taken a more direct approach and I wish Disney had done the same.
But even though the disclaimer from Disney is somewhat flawed, it's certainly better than continuing to ignore the problem (as some people prefer to do) and at least we can continue to still view all but the most egregious negative racial stereotypes created by Walt Disney.
aw14
Well-Known Member
Historical fact and contemporary consensus? So now you’re moving the goalposts again? You posted an article which contradicts your point, next time proofread better.
Phil12
Well-Known Member
Negative. It substantiated the point to wit: "And here's another irrefutable fact: For nearly as long as the melody has been on the American shores, it has been used to denigrate and make fun of black people. Its use as the soundtrack for the blackface minstrel show era is not some trivial aside."
And no one is moving goalposts. As I've said consistently, racism was wrong both then and now. Things that are bad are sometimes popular too.
aw14
Well-Known Member
And again, the expert you quoted in the article they wrote goes against what you say. Maybe find a different article of support?
Chi84
Premium Member
Maybe Disney is using this debate as an opportunity to get rid of an outdated theme with creepy, unappealing characters and replace it with an updated storyline and fresher characters more relevant to current and future guests. I'm well aware that most of the people who monitor and post on these Disney sites are pretty conservative when it comes to any change, and that Splash has a fan base for reasons inexplicable to me (so please don't try).
Disney has always seemed to me to be somewhat forward thinking or progressive when it comes to social issues, so I don't think it sees any downside to a re-theme. I doubt most people delve all that deeply into Disney's motives or care one way or the other about whether or why it re-themes a ride as long as the final product is a good one, and Disney usually provides a quality experience.
Disney has always seemed to me to be somewhat forward thinking or progressive when it comes to social issues, so I don't think it sees any downside to a re-theme. I doubt most people delve all that deeply into Disney's motives or care one way or the other about whether or why it re-themes a ride as long as the final product is a good one, and Disney usually provides a quality experience.
seabreezept813
Well-Known Member
A cute bunny and woodland creatures being creepy... I think you lose all merit here. It’s just not a good criticism
Chi84
Premium Member
Really?! Do you like clowns and mimes too? I guess it's very subjective. I've seen cute bunnies and woodland creatures, just not the representations of them in Splash Mountain. I didn't mean to suggest that all bunnies and woodland creatures are creepy-looking.
Even if some people find them cute, they really are kind of old and outdated. At least in my opinion - I know there are many who disagree.
Last edited:
Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
If they do Tiana the same way that they did Elsa in Frozen Ever After it'll be much creepier than anything in Splash Mountain.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
I think Dr. Facilier's "Friends on the Other Side" are far creepier than the Brers. I know they're SUPPOSED to be creepy, but still...
seabreezept813
Well-Known Member
The animation style is similar to most other classic Disney films.. Robin Hood, Snow White, etc. I just can’t see calling those critters creepy and liking the type of product Disney has always offered.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I believe she’s referring to the animatronics rather than the animated characters (not that I find either version creepy).
Chi84
Premium Member
That is correct. I just don’t care for the characters or the storyline in Splash Mountain. I don’t expect everyone else to agree, but I personally look forward to seeing the changes.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I love Splash Mountain, but I’m remaining optimistic and openminded for the retheme. I just hope they don’t skimp on quality.
Phil12
Well-Known Member
Negative. He absolutely supported my position. To wit: "The fact that the “Turkey in the Straw” melody was fitted out with so many racist lyrics is a sad and valuable historical lesson indeed. However, the idea that today’s ice cream trucks are playing “Zip ”—even as unwitting historical holdover—is too fragile to launch any anti-ice-cream boycotts as we head into the summer months." I agree with that fully. This is 2020. Children today do not associate that tune with racist lyrics. But the history of the song is unmistakable. According to historians the racist version of the song came first: "It is difficult determine an original date for either song, but most sources say that “Old Zip ” came before “Turkey in the Straw.” The tune was popular in the 1830s, and the melody still remains popular."
But we're not concerned with "today's ice cream trucks". We're concerned with old Walt Disney movies and cartoons. In particular the 1928 cartoon Steamboat Willie and the 1946 movie Song of the South. Two of the songs in each of those films are derived from and directly based upon a racist song that was popularized in black-face minstrel shows:
TWDC clearly realizes the problem. Thus far, they have dealt with this problem in an unsatisfactory manner. As you know, they have put Song of the South in the famous Disney vault with no word as to when or if ever it will again be released. Splash Mountain is going to get a complete re-theme to another IP. And Steamboat Willie (along with other problematic cartoons and movies) now have a rather weak disclaimer.
So, in one instance Disney has decided to hide the offensive movie in the vault. In the second instance they decided to get rid of the offensive attraction and re-theme. In the third instance they added the following disclaimer, “This program is presented as originally created. It may contain outdated cultural depictions.”
Why did they take these actions? Wouldn't it be better to confront the issue and let the chips fall where they may? Well, let's look at the way Warner Brothers handled it with the Tom and Jerry cartoons. Their disclaimer says, “Tom and Jerry shorts may depict some ethnic and racial prejudices that were once commonplace in American society. Such depictions were wrong then and are wrong today.”
So, Warner Brothers decided to confront the issue and admit some of those cartoons were racist. TWDC wants to protect Walt Disney's image. After all, the company is named after him. So, you don't want to admit that your founder was a racist. That makes perfect sense as to why Disney's disclaimer is so weak and generic. We all know that Walt Disney was a hands on guy and nothing left the studio without his seal of approval. That clearly tells us that Walt saw nothing wrong with allowing cartoons and movies with degrading racial stereotypes to go out for public display with his name boldly on the title card.
If Disney would confront the problem and just admit that Walt was indeed a racist, they could write a truthful disclaimer for each of the problematic movies, cartoons and attractions. I think the chances of that happening are rather slim.
The Politics section was a mistake. Now we have to deal with Phil's endless tangent about Song Of The South, Steamboat Willie, Splash Mountain, and Turkey In The Straw for a couple more pages. And I thought ford91exploder was bad.- Status