No, that's just another of multiple threads about the same topic that have started to veer off the track into the P&SI/Covid territory. It's been dragged back on track - others are in the other forum.
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Splash Mountain re-theme announced
- Thread starter DCBaker
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No, that's just another of multiple threads about the same topic that have started to veer off the track into the P&SI/Covid territory. It's been dragged back on track - others are in the other forum.
Yeah, that's why I got a little confused
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
I’m just going to answer this question to save everyone the trouble.
SotS is racist because people want it to be. No, seriously.
It has just enough surface level stuff (dialect and a few neutral stereotypes) to make it feel dated. People run with that and it becomes Disney’s poster child for how disgusting and racist the company and old Hollywood used to be. And Disney benefits from it too because all of the racially insensitive jokes in their more popular films and franchise can now slide under the radar.
As a society, we love to trash our distant past to put ourselves on a pedestal because the people who would fight back against us are now dead. Sometimes we’re right. Sometimes we’re just as bad if not worse.
TL;DR SotS isn’t racist, but few people care about it and it has just enough dated stuff needed for it to be the sacrificial lamb for the Disney Company to make their modern self look better. By calling it racist, we think we are holding Disney accountable for their “racist” past, but we’re really just ignorant clowns who have absolutely no idea what we’re talking about.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
I think "problematic" is a better word for Song of the South. I can see why people are offended by it, but you're right that it's not the most racist thing ever like everyone makes it out to be.
tirian
Well-Known Member
This is regarding a comment in another thread, but I’m replying here to make sure it’s in the proper forum (and to kinda help out @The Mom ).
IMHO:
I’m saying this as someone who is a minority.
One of the biggest issues right now is that it’s become a knee-jerk and immature reaction to call anything with a dialect or cultural identity “racist.” There’s an enormous difference between Brer Rabbit in “Splash Mt.” and the crows in Dumbo—and even the crows can be considered a product of their time since they‘re actually sympathetic and help Dumbo.
As a minority, I’ve had people tell me they think IASW and World Showcase are racist because (1) traditional cultural references and (2) maybe to score points with me? Maybe?
But perhaps those same people don’t realize they’re inadvertently calling White people “the only normal” and everything that refers to other cultures “racist.” Guess what. Accents do exist. Cultural clothing and differences do too. That variety is part of what makes life wonderful! I don’t want everyone to look, dress, or sound the same; and I don’t want “American Western pop culture as filtered through Twitter mobs” to control the whole earth.
Hyper-sensitivity is another issue because it confuses things which truly are problematic with ultra-sensitive, ultra-skewed opinions. Cartoons exaggerate everything. That’s part of being a cartoon. White hillbillies, snobby elites, southern critters, Mexican mice who run fast — it’s all up for grabs. It’s true that some old cartoons are actually racist, especially from the days of black-and-white and early color. But those instances clearly tried to get laughs out of the identity itself. The traits weren’t part of characterization: they were intended to simply laugh at the people for existing. That is indeed a problem.
That’s also not the same thing as simply including a dialect (Brer Rabbit, Country Bear Jamboree, Tiki birds, etc.) or traditional cultural references (IASW, World Showcase). Recognizing differences and including them in characterizations are not the same thing as racism. That’s a bizarre oversimplification.
@Brer Oswald here’s my response.
Also, I’m simply posting this “IMHO” and won’t keep checking to argue or go back-and-forth with anyone. Too much important stuff is happening IRL.
IMHO:
I’m saying this as someone who is a minority.
One of the biggest issues right now is that it’s become a knee-jerk and immature reaction to call anything with a dialect or cultural identity “racist.” There’s an enormous difference between Brer Rabbit in “Splash Mt.” and the crows in Dumbo—and even the crows can be considered a product of their time since they‘re actually sympathetic and help Dumbo.
As a minority, I’ve had people tell me they think IASW and World Showcase are racist because (1) traditional cultural references and (2) maybe to score points with me? Maybe?
But perhaps those same people don’t realize they’re inadvertently calling White people “the only normal” and everything that refers to other cultures “racist.” Guess what. Accents do exist. Cultural clothing and differences do too. That variety is part of what makes life wonderful! I don’t want everyone to look, dress, or sound the same; and I don’t want “American Western pop culture as filtered through Twitter mobs” to control the whole earth.
Hyper-sensitivity is another issue because it confuses things which truly are problematic with ultra-sensitive, ultra-skewed opinions. Cartoons exaggerate everything. That’s part of being a cartoon. White hillbillies, snobby elites, southern critters, Mexican mice who run fast — it’s all up for grabs. It’s true that some old cartoons are actually racist, especially from the days of black-and-white and early color. But those instances clearly tried to get laughs out of the identity itself. The traits weren’t part of characterization: they were intended to simply laugh at the people for existing. That is indeed a problem.
That’s also not the same thing as simply including a dialect (Brer Rabbit, Country Bear Jamboree, Tiki birds, etc.) or traditional cultural references (IASW, World Showcase). Recognizing differences and including them in characterizations are not the same thing as racism. That’s a bizarre oversimplification.
@Brer Oswald here’s my response.
Also, I’m simply posting this “IMHO” and won’t keep checking to argue or go back-and-forth with anyone. Too much important stuff is happening IRL.
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Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
That’s my stance on it as well.
Somewhat related, someone once told me Song of the South was racist because “it has black people in it”. I was completely dumbfounded at the response.
Kram Sacul
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
That’s the kind of sad logic many have. Way easier than actually watching the film and coming up with an independent thought. It was also made in the 1940s, the most racist decade of all time, except right now.
Timmay
Well-Known Member
Sooo, we are living in the most racist time...right now? And the ‘40’s were the second most racist? I think you may have to quantify that for me.
Stand by...was that sarcasm? If so, disregard.
aw14
Well-Known Member
Now is the most racist? Seriously? 4 years after a black man served 2 terms as president? Can you substantiate that claim please?
Kram Sacul
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
I was being sarcastic. Real racism ended some time ago but some want it back.
Which consdering one of the key final shots in the film is a black hand and white hand in friendship (one of, if not the first possibly to do this)after sharing life experiences makes it one of the arguably most progressive films of all time, Walt and company were pretty bold keeping that in with its message.
Kram Sacul
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
In an alternate and more peaceful universe Song of the South is a beloved classic that Disney is not ashamed of and is now on Disney+.
If it would have been more of a priotiy to the home video in the states market back in the late 80s, I think that would have been more or less likely.
Kram Sacul
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
When I was a kid in the 80s I would sometimes see clips of SotS on the Disney Channel and wonder why they never showed the whole movie. It looked awesome.
It even had a theatrical rerelease in the late 80s before Splash Mountain opened.
Kram Sacul
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Yep. All the fake outrage should’ve happened then.
Phil12
Well-Known Member
That's because white supremacy was the norm in the USA back in the 1980's. Two term president Ronald Reagan is proof of that fact:
Ronald Reagan's Racism Should Come as No Surprise | Common Dreams
The historical amnesia that allows people to be surprised that Ronald Reagan was a racist does more than sanitize the image of a historical figure.
www.commondreams.org
aw14
Well-Known Member
That's because white supremacy was the norm in the USA back in the 1980's. Two term president Ronald Reagan is proof of that fact:
Ronald Reagan's Racism Should Come as No Surprise | Common Dreams
The historical amnesia that allows people to be surprised that Ronald Reagan was a racist does more than sanitize the image of a historical figure.
Come on man, you don’t help yourself with posts like this.
dig311dug
Well-Known Member
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