Spirited Thoughts, News, Observations etc.

OK, hide the women and the children ... most importantly send the fanbois to bed with their plush and tell them to hide under the covers ... waaaay down under them because it's time for some Spirited thoughts, observations, news and anecdotes from a long weekend at The World Maintenance Forgot, yes WDW.

Where to start? With a conclusion? Or should I just work on down?

Should I start with the good ... things like seeing friends, having great weather, appreciating some things that the fan community tends to ignore and seeing EPCOT in its best colors?

Or ... do I focus on everything else? Because all going to WDW did for me this weekend was exceed my already amazingly low expectations for the state of WDW infrastructure and show quality (hey, they did exceed expectations, right?) and get me more excited for my future visits to DLP, possibly BGW, DL ... and, hopefully in the not too distant future, the Asian resorts again too.

Let's start with the basics. Freshness. If you had visited WDW in 2006 and hadn't returned in six years, you would find no appreciable new product in three of four parks.

You would find show quality that already had issues showing more issues than the typical fanboi in therapy. Well, that's if you can actually get to the MK because the crumbling monorail system has to be shut down all day from 11:30 a.m to 6 p.m. to do track work in the midst of one of the busiest times of the year ... imagine paying $500-700 a night for a room at the GF or Poly with monorail convenience touted (wonder what guest recovery they are doing there!) ... but let's assume you find your way there.

Let's start with the stuff the fan community is all lathered up for, namely the Storybook Circus mini-land expansion of Fantasyland. What did I think of it?

Not very much at all.

As usual, the hype was much greater than the product, which can't be viewed in a vacuum in a park that is crumbling and has no wow factor at all anymore.

In the day, Dumbo's primary colors and the red painted construction fences all around come off as garish ... befitting a circus, no doubt ... but Old Man Disney was no more a fan of circuses than he was of amusement parks and piers and the shady elements that all attracted. So, we have a new spinner that is prettier than the last. And it spins high enough to peek over construction walls and we all know how much that has become en vogue in O-Town of late.

It is a beautiful kinetic piece at night when the lighting is largely coming from the white and red bulbs that rim the queue (likely more of a makeshift deal now until the old Dumbo starts spinning across the way) and the LEDs embedded in the fountains underneath. But it is still Dumbo.

Sort of like the Barnstormer is still the Barnstormer, just missing much in the way of theming. Its prior incarnation had some whimsy, this doesn't. But they weren't getting rid of the only kiddie coaster in the park, so this was a cheap fix. Oh, and thanks to Bob Iger working with a chainsaw, you can now watch Disney buses and CMs driving to/fro work behind the MK as you walk up the queue if you peer left. I will never get what Phil and TDO have against trees, but they certainly do.

Nothing else is open beyond a much nicer train station that is still a train station ... and a set of new restrooms (someone needs to page Talking Head to this thread stat!) What I found amazing is that Disney was too cheap to actually connect these facilities to the park's main water supply, so they are using water from the immediate area that is untreated (or perhaps non-filtered/cleansed is more appropriate) so you have bizarre signs saying the water is 'non potable' (that means you can't drink it for those with limited vocabularies) over toilets. I know Disney's prices are crazy for a Coke, but over the toilet?!? ... Of course, the reason is they have colored the water blue because otherwise it would be a very icky color and folks would constantly be complaining that something isn't right.

Are the details nice? Sure. But they are very basic. I was much more excited by leaf patterns in the walkways around Old Man Island at Dixie Landings 20 years ago than I am by various hoof prints and 'peanuts' embedded in this area.

So much of this area also suffers from having both exposed coaster track (Disney fanbois seem to have issues with this at UNI) and show buildings just sticking out like a Duffy alone on a shelf full of Minnies.

If this is what Disney believes will raise the bar in O-Town ... well, no ... they don't. They understand what they have built and why. This is about capacity ... and NEXT GEN ... and keeping folks from being bored out of their minds by offering something 'new'.

It's in 'soft opening' now, but let's be blunt: they had to get this open and open now. They have so little capacity in this park due to 15 years of taking away and not adding. MK just isn't a very pleasant place right now at all with crowds and walls and lots of attractions that have seen far better days.

Again, it also seems that Ops and WDI simply can't get on the same page no matter what ... Dumbo opens with small plants where every little kid (and plenty of big ones) are going to stand, so the result is the foliage that was there Monday was trampled and mostly dead or dying by Friday. How they miss these basics is beyond me, although I think communication and common sense are both lacking.

Now, what else was 'new' (to me) at MK? Spin the Fanboi? Pin the Tail on Meg? Dole Whip tees (I mean, REALLY?!?!) ... or how about the latest way to hook OCD fanbois and why it is so important to NEXT GEN.

I'll see you all a little later ... like in the next post!
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
Seriously? No they don't blend in well and they are absolutely loud and obnoxious and ruin the entire feel of the area of the land. They ruin the ambiance of each land and I don't know how anyone can argue that.

Sorry but you are completely wrong. But hey believe what you want, i know the truth.

It is funny how you can honestly try to tell a person who ACTUALLY participated in the experience they are wrong. Sorry while i laugh.

Nothing you said is correct.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
I'll take up that torch for our friendly neighborhood S.H.I.E.L.D. member.

You just hate DisneyWorld. You hate Iger. You just can't see past all your hate.

That about accurate?

Oh how sad when adults just have to attack. So I am a bad guy since i liked SotMK. I will make sure to tell my 4 year old nephew that xdan on an internet website thinks he is an idiot for having a great time at WDW and how he should of hated it all.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
There are always going to be complainers. I don't believe that Spirit is one of them, but even if TDO thought he was just a whiner with no legitimate gripes, they should be much more concerned about the folks whose attitudes about WDW have changed in recent years. Even just 4 or 5 years ago, most people on sites like this seemed to have very favorable views of WDW. But as time has passed, I believe more and more folks are seeing the problems. There is a very different tone on the boards now than there was a few years back, as people have become dissatisfied with some aspects of their WDW experiences.

When grandmas in line behind me can point out a dirty queue, or when parents have to tell their kids about parade floats being broken as the are pulled dark and lifeless down Main Street, then they should really be concerned. The casual guests notice these things, only they don't go on message boards to complain. They either just don't come back, or tell their friends and neighbors not to bother going because the place is old/dirty/expensive and not quite as "magical" as all those commercials would have them expect.
I agree fully, but I think that is peripheral to what is being discussed here.

TWDC should be concerned, but at the same time, if all of the hard metrics are pointing to you are doing things right (per guest spending, increase attendance, increase hotel occupancy), why change? Why listen to a handful of posters on this little corner of the internet?

Again, not defending it, just pointing it out.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Oh how sad when adults just have to attack. So I am a bad guy since i liked SotMK. I will make sure to tell my 4 year old nephew that xdan on an internet website thinks he is an idiot for having a great time at WDW and how he should of hated it all.

Ah, so you are Avengers....
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
Ah, so you are Avengers....

Does it make you feel powerful to put down others? I mean you have yet to offer ANYTHING to the discussion except that anyone who like anything about Disney is wrong. I am done with you. When an adult acts worse than a 4 year old child, like you, then that means it is pointless to talk to you
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
I agree fully, but I think that is peripheral to what is being discussed here.

TWDC should be concerned, but at the same time, if all of the hard metrics are pointing to you are doing things right (per guest spending, increase attendance, increase hotel occupancy), why change? Why listen to a handful of posters on this little corner of the internet?

Again, not defending it, just pointing it out.

You make some valid points. It is hard for the Disney execs to think that the park is bad when the numbers prove otherwise. Do i think the park is as horrible as '74 thinks it is? No, are there some issues that need to be addressed? Yes.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
No, they didn't. Again, I wish people would read what is actually written.

the term with a 'I' at the end was coined in the 90s, by a group of Imagineers (yes, gay men ... shocking I know) who didn't like that their work was being criticized by fans.

Now, it is more mainstream and their derogatory term is 'foamer' ...

Again, that is fact. You want to argue it? Seems like everyone is argumentative tonight.

Just because that's where you first heard it.. or was used within Disney circles doesn't mean squat.

This type of speak originates from the online warez scenes (primarily IRC) and gaming communities followed.. with the terminology used to label ones in the religion wars of brand preference. Later it became more popular and mainstream during Apple's resurgence.

Phonetic replacement was popular.. originally spurred by people thinking it would avoid word detection.. but became a game upon itself.. and leet speak was born. boi is a play on Flava Flave trademark phrase... boyeeeeeee NWA.. not something I'm sure would be too popular in the rainbow halls of imagineering.

So I'm sure the Imagineers liked picking up on counter culture stuff from the online pirate scene.. but originate it? No way.

Of course! Who wouldn't want people to read what they write and comment (whether they agree or disagree etc)? ... But I don't like it when people decide that instead of discussing the meat of my points that they'd rather discuss what an awful human being I am because I tend to be blunt.

Maybe if you focused on the meat and drop your ego stroking sensationalism.. love the name dropping.. the insider baseball you try to weave in without calling it out explicitly to make it seem 'second nature'.. the need to try to create a trademark-like trait in each post, etc. It's textbook sensationalism and self-promotion.. and you might as well be putting bells on and jumping up and down saying 'look at me look at me!'

It's tiring and actually is self-defeating in the eyes of those not blinded by the self-created glamor. Maybe it's not even intentional... I hope for your own self awareness it is. Anyone who relies upon such methods to get to a goal and isn't aware they are doing it needs an intervention.

Are you trying to work up to interview for your own cable news talk show? Or tired that people like Al and Jim Hill opinions/post still get far more attention then you so you have to resort to their behaviors in an attempt to build up eyes and suspense for your posts?

Your message is thrown out with the bath water when you resort to such manipulative tactics that really only work on sheep.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I agree fully, but I think that is peripheral to what is being discussed here.

TWDC should be concerned, but at the same time, if all of the hard metrics are pointing to you are doing things right (per guest spending, increase attendance, increase hotel occupancy), why change? Why listen to a handful of posters on this little corner of the internet?

Again, not defending it, just pointing it out.
I think this is the heart of the issue and is something that Lee pointed out earlier. Disney is doing fantastic by this metric, and this metric is the end all be all for 99% of the businesses out there, but it is missing the Disney touch of show and quality. Show and quality do not have columns that show up directly on a marketing or shareholders report and it seems that the current people in charge are content to ignore them to increase the factors that do.
 

tinkerbell1985

New Member
I think everyone who still feels the magic should go ahead and enjoy WDW the way it is for now (as we can't change it) flaws and all...

and for those who don't feel the magic and are too busy pointing out the bad stuff to take a look around and just be in the moment at WDW, well, they can do whatever they wish, and have their opinions on it as well.

as in the Little Mermaid: Ariel's Beginning (In Harmony)

What makes someone special?
I suppose it all depends
It's what's unique in each of us
That we all share as friends

The difference is our differences
Maybe small or great
Variety adds spice to life
So we should celebrate


In harmony
Harmony
You're you, I'm me
Together we
Can live in harmony



come on, peeps... friendly discussion? :wave:
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
I think this is the heart of the issue and is something that Lee pointed out earlier. Disney is doing fantastic by this metric, and this metric is the end all be all for 99% of the businesses out there, but it is missing the Disney touch of show and quality. Show and quality do not have columns that show up directly on a marketing or shareholders report and it seems that the current people in charge are content to ignore them to increase the factors that do.

Wouldnt show and quality fall under guest satisfaction?
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
I think this is the heart of the issue and is something that Lee pointed out earlier. Disney is doing fantastic by this metric, and this metric is the end all be all for 99% of the businesses out there, but it is missing the Disney touch of show and quality. Show and quality do not have columns that show up directly on a marketing or shareholders report and it seems that the current people in charge are content to ignore them to increase the factors that do.
That is why, at the end of the day, the most effective way to spur change is to do the one thing that is balked at constantly when it is suggested here:

Stop giving them money.

If the metrics is what they understand, then they will need to see a negative change in those metrics. Not thousands of pontifications on the internet.
Wouldnt show and quality fall under guest satisfaction?
Yes, but there is a minimum that will garner an acceptable level of complaints and then there is the Disney difference.

While I think some people hold the Disney difference a little higher than Disney ever held themselves to, there are examples of the minimum being done (E:E being the most obvious example).
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Does it make you feel powerful to put down others? I mean you have yet to offer ANYTHING to the discussion except that anyone who like anything about Disney is wrong. I am done with you. When an adult acts worse than a 4 year old child, like you, then that means it is pointless to talk to you


Silly me, I was referring to a forum member who was banned last week. You somehow took that as an attack against you. That leads me to only one conclusion....I think you may be that forum member, posting under a different name.

Also, just so ya know. I love almost everything about Disney, I am even a DVC member.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
That is why, at the end of the day, the most effective way to spur change is to do the one thing that is balked at constantly when it is suggested here:

Stop giving them money.

If the metrics is what they understand, then they will need to see a negative change in those metrics. Not thousands of pontifications on the internet.
I have been saying the same thing for quite some time. As long as the good numbers go up, a blind eye can be turned to everything else.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
This I find a very interesting thought. I always guessed that the whole SotMK idea was sold to TDO as a way to add "capacity" to the park: Make people feel like they experienced more than they actually did as there appears to be a magic number that visitors need to reach to be happy (I am still in shock that according to Mr Gas at DLP that is 6 attractions per day!!).

The supposed MAGIC number at MK is nine in one day. As bad as capacity is there (and it is awful compared to 1992), I can arrive at the MK at 9 p.m. and do that many attractions in three hours. So, I don't understand the folks who get there at 9 a.m. (no matter the closing time) not being able to see and do everything they want ... but that's another discussion and we already have about 65 on this thread ... because I am an attention and all!:lol::drevil::king:

But I can see how someone would think that providing these diversions would be an easy way to fill time between appointments (i.e. your scheduled X-Pass times). So, in a way you are saying that SotMK is the interactive queue for the whole of the MK.

That is exactly what I am saying, although you are the first to put it that way.

My take on this has been said over and over again ... and many here don't/won't like it ... but the 'tude is generally one of TDO saying 'we know our parks are stale and we aren't adding REAL reasons for you to return, so here is something to keep you busy instead of playing with your iPhone''

But I didn't see it (was at MK for parts of three days -- NOT my choice) as something very popular beyond the teen to 30-something fanboi demos. They were playing and had books of cards and wanted to trade. I saw some kids playing too, but they honestly seemed to lose interest quickly.

I don't blame them. Unlike Kim Possible where you can make things happen, this is strictly a screen game ... and I just don't see this as what the No. 1 theme park in the world should be spending money on as the place literally is crumbling and they have now gone two decades without adding a major attraction.


And what makes me wonder: it seems like all these screens have lines. So instead of waiting 40 minutes for a ride, you wait 5 minutes at each of 8 screens. Not sure how much I would like that. Appears to be a bit tiresome.

Even if the game were really brilliant (and I haven't played it yet, so am still keeping an open mind about it), it appears to be so indicative about the mindset: The MK is no longer run to wow people, to fascinate them, to amaze them. The new goal is to keep the majority of people from being dissatisfied.

Well, it certainly gets frustrating and boring when you have to stand behind eight people and watch the same video playing. That seemed to be the case, Some 'portals' had between 5-10 people waiting to play while a few others had no one there.
 

disney9752

Member
I have been saying the same thing for quite some time. As long as the good numbers go up, a blind eye can be turned to everything else.

maybe we need to stop booking those overpriced vacations to "monorail" resorts that DONT have monorail service, spending countless dollars on shirts from a time when the parks WERE magical, & continue writing folks, continue to fill out commment cards/complaints when visiting the parks, if your friends or family went & noticed the broken effects on splash, the filty condition of a park or a parade float being towed along half the route let them also contact disney, don't just contact wdw where tdo brushes it under the rug, post comments on the wdw facebook page, write to iger in burbank, reach over meg's head.....
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Whether you agree with it or not Disney is a profit based company
Quite true, and the business side of me completely understands their current way of thinking. The wide eyed child in me misses the old Disney attitude of deliver quality all the time and the profit will come.
 

the-reason14

Well-Known Member
While I think no one can sit up here and say that WDW is in tip top perfect condition, I also don't think you can say it's as apocalypse bad as the OP and many would like people to believe. But you can't expect much positivity from him anyways, as everything always has a dire tone to his post, almost as if Disney personally did something to him to make him feel so bad, but whatever, it's his 'thing' and he does it well.

The thing I hated the most other then the monorails being down was of course the fastpasses. That's definitely something they need to smooth out. The parks were packed for spring break, and the fastpasses weren't fast at all for the most part. I saw the SOTMK thing, and it looks pretty cool. Something I'd like to experience someday but I don't know if I'd want to take the time and do it. Either way there should always be at least something to praise and smile about at WDW. People like the OP claim some of us are 'high' off pixie dust or whatever, but I think yall cynics are the ones who are really flying. There's no way I could feel so negatively about a place and still go, but WDW is the real victor here as they still got your $$ so complain on. :ROFLOL:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Maybe the distinction between fanboi and Fanboi needs to be mentioned again.

One is the geek who loves the parks, has a passion and a desire for them, and will complain loudly when that that they love falls well below expectations when there is no reason why aside from an ever diminishing budget and sensible business plan.

The other fanboi is one who thinks there is nothing wrong and everything is rosey.

I'm certainly the in the first category.

Ah, Martin, there is a difference between us, buddy.

You just state something and move on (probably smart!), I am looking to provoke a reaction, to get people talking and thinking and, just maybe, seeing things differently.

You can say TDO is clueless and its current business model is destroying the integrity of the resort and move on and people will either agree or disagree, but they won't talk much.

People need to be shaken out of their stupor (in the real world so much more than here and on matter of far more import than theme parks). That doesn't happen by making a statement and moving on.

This always comes up when Lee (secretly an Imagineer according to old buddy Merfie!) and I get together. People don't get excited until you push their buttons and make them look inward.

Am I really enjoying the MK because it's never been better :hurl::hammer::rolleyes: or because I am addicted to the place and couldn't imagine taking a vacation anywhere else? Am I not noticing the fact Small World looks like it's ready to be condemned because nothing is really wrong that has never been before or is it because I am busy singing and in a pixie dusted haze? Am I OK with Disney adding DVC at the GF because it will improve the resort so much so that I don't notice that half the lights are off on the building and the monorail doesn't run daily (all for rates that start at $460 for the cheapest room in the cheapest season)?

I think much of the anger that gets provoked in threads like this is because people DO notice what is going on and they wonder what it says about them that they continue to visit and defend it.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I bowed out of the forums months ago because I couldn't handle the barrage of extreme negativity and positivity. For every legitimate complaint (Splash Mountain's disrepair), there were a thousand silly ones ("I don't like the color of the Confectionary!").

But it's even worse to read people who blindly defend every bad decision made at WDW over the last five years. Florida's resort is far below Disney's own standards everywhere else. I hadn't been to DL in years, but after I visited it last December, I returned to my hotel room seriously depressed about the state of WDW. Imagine a place where maintenance simply happens--quickly--and where almost every special effect works. DL is that place. Sure, the FLE looks great, but how long will it take to be broken like every other attraction at the Magic Kingdom?

74's spirited observations are 100% correct, and anyone who disagrees clearly hasn't taken any classes in business.
 

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