Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

[asianway]

I think once the actor who played Sid died, it was not long for this World.

I know the character was retired out of respect but I'm beginning to wonder if that was the right move

 

[WDWFigment]

Nope. That opinion ain't flying with this Spirit because it fundamentally misses the role retail played at Disney Parks from 1955 until the Lee Cockerell mid'90s era. Revenue per square foot is numbers talk and it is the type of talk that has totally destroyed retail at WDW.

FWIW, all it takes for Sid's to be in the black for the week is one big-time purchase. And with the number of guests the park gets (no matter what numbers you're looking at) daily that happens most of the time. That doesn't count all the cheaper items that are sold daily at all.

Even if the place operated at a loss, which I am quite sure it doesn't, so what? Before you were a globe-hopping Disney photog, retail was part of the show. Sometimes, it lost money. Somewhere in my files I have the entire 1987 MK retail breakdown location by location. Emporium blew the others out of the water. I think every location combined didn't equal what it made. But when you were in Liberty Square, you felt it. It wasn't all Disney's MAGICal toon park. So, you had a Silversmith shop and a perfume shop and an antiques shop. And they may have not made much money usually, but they were an integral part of the show and of setting a mood for a time and place.

Now, those three shops are one giant Disney Christmas Crap Shoppe because nothing sez Colonial America to me like Pooh X-mas Tree toppers and Jack Skellington ornaments all with huge open space because every location has now been made wide open so 500-pounders can drive their ECVs in (heaven forbid they leave them and walk into a shop).

It's all watered down and just like trees being replaced by shrubs and wood chips or themed trash cans being replaced with generic ones that say MSUSA or CMs wearing street clothes or basic costumes, it all dumbs the experience down to a complete different level.

Having Disney themed merchandise in every area is a cop out and a giving in to Walmarting.

It doesn't matter what sells in every case. Fans want the Orange Bird now, but they don't care that his Adventureland is a barren empty place because Disney shuttered practically every dining and retail location in the land and ...nah, I was going to start talking about the flea market at the PoC exit or te fountains that are planters and I realize I might as well be typing this on Laughing Place a decade ago. You know what's right. Settling is just giving into the current Management's motives.

Sid's is the only shop at TPFKaTD-MGMS that still bares some resemblance to what the park's retail was when it opened. It wasn't the same Disney crap in every location.

Like I said, I know my opinion on this isn't a popular one here. To clarify, my revenue per square foot remark was in response to whether the location "needed" to be sabotaged or not to justify its closure. I suspect its closure would have been justified (internally) two years ago just as much as it would have today. I don't think sabotage was necessary here. I don't have the numbers to back that up, so it's just speculation.

Turning to my own opinion on stores like Sid's...I remember when retail was part of the "show." I've been visiting Walt Disney World literally my entire life, long before I was a globe-trotting photog. So let's not lump me in with some of the folks who have just started visiting in the last few years and think everything is magical.

Even if Sid's were the single-most profitable store on property, I don't view it as something that helps tell the story or establish a more authentic theme. To me, the story is best told through the facades and the decor in the stores. There are still some stores in the parks (a few Adventurelands come to mind) that sell authentic merchandise to some degree, and I don't think it makes a difference in thematic cohesion. However, you theme a store as well as "La Girafe Curieuse" and that conveys the theme of the land in which it's located. As I said in my previous post, the merchandise still needs to fit the theme, I just don't see a need for it to be curios or items that you'd find in such a shop in the real world.

I would much rather see Disney make its own merchandise that fits the themes of where it's being sold and fill each niche-storefront with merchandise that is on-theme, but is actually unique to Disney. I used to have a Big Al growler that we bought in Frontierland. Why not items like that? Why not attraction and land-specific merchandise in these shops that fit the themes? I don't think my opinion on this makes me accepting of "Walmarting" (if anything, what I want would likely be considerably more difficult than finding third party vendors to sell "authentic" goods in these locations).

The countless waterless fountains around the MK irritate me. The condition of the Hub (not just the lack of trees, but the pavement and look of the planters, too) irritates me. The lack of location-specific napkins, stirs, trays, etc., irritates me.

Locations ceasing to sell authentic real-world goods does not bother me. That does not mean I'm accepting of what has largely replaced these locations (homogenized merchandise across the board), but just that the lack of real-world goods for sale in the parks, in itself, does not bother me.

 

[michmousefan]

Get the High School Music crap out of Tomorrowland, get some attraction-specific merchandise into those gift shops, some land-specific stuff where it belongs, and some designs that don't defile the history of TWDC. That will make me happy.

If I could find this on a t-shirt, I'd be quite happy...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21652490@N06/4865444611/

 

[DougK]

Love eating there. The 1905 Salad is delicious. Finally made it to the original restaurant in Ybor City earlier this year. Well worth the visit.

And they have the best Cuban Sandwich too. That along with a 1905 salad makes a great lunch!

 

[tirian]

The merchandise itself isn't the problem; the lack of show is the real tragedy. Let's make a list of the show-setting elements removed over the last 20 years:

•Adventureland•
Entertainment
Many characters other than Aladdin
POTC not based on a tired movie franchise
Various small shops with immersive theming
Outdoor POTC cannons firing at night
Water fountains
Consistently open quick service locations

•Frontierland•
Diamond Horseshoe
Street entertainment (cowboys)
Many characters other than Woody and Jessie
Various shops (replaced with one massive pin store)
Country Bear show rotation (e.g. Christmas)
Paintbrushes on TSI
Aunt Polly's quick service on TSI
Keel boats
Canoes
Nighttime riverboat (technically Liberty Square)

•Liberty Square•
Fifers
Lighting of the tree
Small, unique shops
Properly mysterious setting for HM
A timeless HoP that didn't focus on one President
Nighttime riverboat

•Fantasyland•
Honestly, it's only improved, except for ripping out Snow White instead of adding the mine coaster and putting the princesses elsewhere. The skyway is gone. Toad and 20k were either already gone or on the way out.

•Toontown•
Good riddance.

•Tomorrowland•
Alien Encounter (unsatisfactory replacement)
Timekeeper (thematically inappropriate replacement)
A teenage vibe rather than cartoons for 6-year-olds
An updated CoP
Consistent maintenance
Regular refurbishments
Fountains
Space Mountain TV station in queue
Skyway

•MSUSA and Hub•
Maintained parades
Small, thematically appropriate shops
Center Street/Market Street
Magic Store
Cinema
Fresh candy and fudge
A real bakery with freshly made items
Arcade with vintage games
Day-long transportation
Walt Disney Story in Town Square Theater
Trees
Small castle stage (forced perspective)
Fountains
Lengthy, regularly updated day parades

•Park-wide•
Elaborate Christmas decorations
Elaborate autumn (Halloween) decorations
Specific napkins, drink stirrers
Walt Disney World-branded bags
Bigger fireworks shows for MNSSHP and MVMCP
Unique menus
Accessible restaurant reservations

••• You can see the trend in the list. Nearly everything related to entertainment and show—elements that don't make money but enhance the experience—have been cut. Disney calls the Magic Kingdom a theme park, but nearly every supporting detail has been removed. No matter how decent the park's refurbishments and New Fantasyland may be, the experience was infinitely richer 20 years ago.

It was that old-school "show" mentality that made WDW the most visited destination on earth. You can only milk it for so long...

EDIT: I forgot to add the free chocolates after sit-down meals. Little? Yes. But even Olive Garden can do it.

 

[Viget]

To answer the question asked by three different posters above.....

When is WDW ever not crowded,
When is WDW ever not hot,
and...
When is DAK ever not hot as an oven,

ONE WORD gents....

*January *


God i love off-season.....

No, no, no.... then it's cold! I have been to WDW twice now in the winter in recent years, January 2010 and December 2002. It was literally freezing, in 2010 in fact, there was a frost warning in effect and all the topiaries were covered up. I had to buy a ridiculous Mickey top hat to keep my ears from getting frostbite!

We used to go all the time in January in the early '90s and I have no recollection of ever needing my winter jacket or a sweater, except for the flight home!

See, it's not global warming per se, it's global climate change

 

[truecoat]

I'm not sure if it will happen but I would think there would eventually be a tipping point for WDW. A point where the people that go all the time are tired of the same old, same old. This point would have to intersect with the first timers who have heard over and over the price isn't worth the product and decide to go somewhere else. With a real drop in attendance, you might see a fury of spending on new attractions to get people to come back but by then would it be too late? I am one that is hoping Universal makes a real dent in attendance at the World the next couple years.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I would much rather see Disney make its own merchandise that fits the themes of where it's being sold and fill each niche-storefront with merchandise that is on-theme, but is actually unique to Disney. I used to have a Big Al growler that we bought in Frontierland. Why not items like that? Why not attraction and land-specific merchandise in these shops that fit the themes? I don't think my opinion on this makes me accepting of "Walmarting" (if anything, what I want would likely be considerably more difficult than finding third party vendors to sell "authentic" goods in these locations).

The countless waterless fountains around the MK irritate me. The condition of the Hub (not just the lack of trees, but the pavement and look of the planters, too) irritates me. The lack of location-specific napkins, stirs, trays, etc., irritates me.

Locations ceasing to sell authentic real-world goods does not bother me. That does not mean I'm accepting of what has largely replaced these locations (homogenized merchandise across the board), but just that the lack of real-world goods for sale in the parks, in itself, does not bother me.

You mean, for example. how the Souvenir Mug is the same everywhere and that you used to by a MK specific plastic tumbler at the hub with your soda and you used to have a souvenir baseball mug at Casey's?

 

[PhotoDave219]

No, no, no.... then it's cold! I have been to WDW twice now in the winter in recent years, January 2010 and December 2002. It was literally freezing, in 2010 in fact, there was a frost warning in effect and all the topiaries were covered up. I had to buy a ridiculous Mickey top hat to keep my ears from getting frostbite!

We used to go all the time in January in the early '90s and I have no recollection of ever needing my winter jacket or a sweater, except for the flight home!

See, it's not global warming per se, it's global climate change

No, its perfect!

 

[baymenxpac]

quick chime in on merchandise:

closing sid's is BS. it's the same way i felt when they overhauled by beloved sports memorabilia store next to casey's on main street into a cookie cutter retail stand. oh good, another place to buy a mickey shirt!

disclaimer: as i say this, i know that disney's merch is already sold at a ridiculous mark up and they're making money no matter what, but in a corporate atmosphere that emphasizes maximizing any profit, i think it's relevant.

at the end of our big trips, we used to make note of what merch we might want and then see if it was available at world of disney. that way, we could get the annual passholder discount they offer there. if there was unique merch available, we bought it when we saw it, sans discount.

by standardizing your merch across the resort, you don't create any customer urgency. this undoubtedly has led to smaller sales (why by the mickey tee or plush at epcot when you can get it anywhere else), but also in a dip in the revenue you're going to get. now, is my family in the minority of discerning consumers? maybe. but by homogenizing the available product, disney is opening themselves up to more volatility.

just my $ .02

 

[Animaniac93-98]

A timeless HoP that didn't focus on one President

Explain? I fail to see how the current version does this given the time spent on Washington, Lincoln, Jackson, JFK etc.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

....

Now, those three shops are one giant Disney Christmas Crap Shoppe because nothing sez Colonial America to me like Pooh X-mas Tree toppers and Jack Skellington ornaments all with huge open space because every location has now been made wide open so 500-pounders can drive their ECVs in (heaven forbid they leave them and walk into a shop).

.....

Having Disney themed merchandise in every area is a cop out and a giving in to Walmarting.
......

PREACH IT, BROTHER SPIRIT.

From a first-timer POV, both Mom and I were amazed by the 'cuteness' of the Christmas shop exterior, but positively stunned by the interior. It wasn't what either of us were expecting; Mom is an antiques junkie and has not one, two, or three Xmas trees up from (I kid you not) November 1-February 1... but FOUR. And each are decorated in a different era. She was hoping for era- specific something- anything- and left empty handed and slack jawed at all the ornaments we saw a few short months ago.... at Walmart and Target.

Mom was so excited to see the Hall of Presidents. She would have loved something specific to that show... and for that matter, I would have too. I mean, aside from photos.... and a glare from the cast member when I asked about the costume (I happened to really like it).

After the trip we had lunch and comments were made regarding "same sh*&% different store" and lack of merchandise specific to areas we were in, the resort (minus one tshirt that neither of us shelled out $35 for) and how the storefronts looked time/era particular but contained the complete opposite.

Needless to say, I agree with your entire post, but wanted to point out what stuck out the most to me.

I really wish I would have seen WDW 15 years ago. But, I have other memories in place of. I have Disneyland memories instead.

 

[GLaDOS]

Water fountains
Aunt Polly's quick service on TSI
Nighttime riverboat (technically Liberty Square)

So much of your list was egregious, but these three really hurt.

The loss of fountains resort wide in certain areas is painful. Aunt Polly's is such a small, yet brilliant location for a quick service area. While I've been told TSI doesn't have problems with attendance, having people eating along the RoA would draw more people over there. And then the Riverboat. Riding the riverboat at night over in DL is something special that needs to happen in WDW.

 

[luv]

It gets cold in the winter. Never the biting, zero degrees, wind whipping around and bunches of ice like up North. But it does, at times, get cold in the winter, especially overnight. I was in the AK one day last winter (maybe January?) and lots of people were walking around with blankets wrapped around themselves.

Earlier in the thread some asked something like, "Does it ever get cold in the AK?" Yes. It gets cold.

I'm not sure if it will happen but I would think there would eventually be a tipping point for WDW. A point where the people that go all the time are tired of the same old, same old. This point would have to intersect with the first timers who have heard over and over the price isn't worth the product and decide to go somewhere else. With a real drop in attendance, you might see a fury of spending on new attractions to get people to come back but by then would it be too late? I am one that is hoping Universal makes a real dent in attendance at the World the next couple years.

With the kind of reputation and loyalty Disney has, people will hang on with them for quite a while. When those kind of people leave, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to get them back.

Disney management doesn't care about the parks. They care about their bonuses. If the parks fall apart and people stop coming, that won't be their problem. Someone else will be doing the job then. They're getting their money...and if the company falls apart later, who cares.

We are actually witnessing Disney's slide, I think. It would take a great man to get them back in shape.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

...

With the kind of reputation and loyalty Disney has, people will hang on with them for quite a while. When those kind of people leave, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to get them back.

Disney management doesn't care about the parks. They care about their bonuses. If the parks fall apart and people stop coming, that won't be their problem. Someone else will be doing the job then. They're getting their money...and if the company falls apart later, who cares.

We are actually witnessing Disney's slide, I think. It would take a great man to get them back in shape.

I'm not sure you know how incredibly sad this statement makes me feel.

 

[Magenta Panther]

It gets cold in the winter. Never the biting, zero degrees, wind whipping around and bunches of ice like up North. But it does, at times, get cold in the winter, especially overnight. I was in the AK one day last winter (maybe January?) and lots of people were walking around with blankets wrapped around themselves.

Earlier in the thread some asked something like, "Does it ever get cold in the AK?" Yes. It gets cold.

With the kind of reputation and loyalty Disney has, people will hang on with them for quite a while. When those kind of people leave, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to get them back.

Disney management doesn't care about the parks. They care about their bonuses. If the parks fall apart and people stop coming, that won't be their problem. Someone else will be doing the job then. They're getting their money...and if the company falls apart later, who cares.

We are actually witnessing Disney's slide, I think. It would take a great man to get them back in shape.

Which sure as heck ain't Iger. He's already got his sights on politics. God help us all.

It's a shame there are no Disney family members left willing to do something. Roy Disney was the last bastion, I guess. Sad...

 

[coolbeans14]

Earlier in the thread some asked something like, "Does it ever get cold in the AK?" Yes. It gets cold.

I remember this December (28th I think) we were in AK and until gone 11 o'clock it was absolutely FREEZING. Oddly that was the only day we felt the cold, it was shorts and t-shirt the rest of the holiday.

 

[luv]

Maybe they'll get someone. Maybe there will be someone who actually gives a pooh (to steal Dave's word) about doing things well...earning their money, instead of just figuring out how to make some right now...creating a thing that continues to make money, by doing it amazingly well.

But quality outs. Every time. If Disney doesn't get someone in there who understands that basics are important (keep it clean, make it pretty, have good rides that work), I think we will continue to watch them slide...at least in Florida and the US. I doubt that the Chinese would pay for (or stand for) mold, lol. Or the Japanese.

As long as Disney is content to be cheered for things like mold remediation, we will watch them slide.

I do love Maelstrom and have said so many times before. I am glad it has been fixed up a bit. I'll be interested to check the temp/humidity feel of Maelstrom when I get back to Florida. But why do I think it will all be set to encourage mold instead of retarding growth?

 

[tirian]

Explain? I fail to see how the current version does this given the time spent on Washington, Lincoln, Jackson, JFK etc.

Kevin Yee said it best. The new script makes it seem as if Obama's presidency was inevitable. The show is no longer about all the presidents. (FWIW, I'm not trying to get political; it could be any president.)

 

[tirian]

So much of your list was egregious, but these three really hurt.

The loss of fountains resort wide in certain areas is painful. Aunt Polly's is such a small, yet brilliant location for a quick service area. While I've been told TSI doesn't have problems with attendance, having people eating along the RoA would draw more people over there. And then the Riverboat. Riding the riverboat at night over in DL is something special that needs to happen in WDW.

I forgot to add the free chocolates after sit-down meals. Little? Yes. But even Olive Garden can do it.