Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[Cesar R M]

^^ Haven't we taken a relatively easy to use system and overcomplicated it enough already?

the hilarity is.. tech supposedly makes things simpler and easier to use.
but I see many corporations trying to enforce so many loops in their own tech.. rules..requirements..... making it even worse than the older ways. reaching headache levels.

 

[GoofGoof]

Note you can still get FOTL by paying for it even if at the new Value, So this system is better than disney's because it can be fully explained to a guest in 30 seconds or less.

Disney could easily do the same thing. Double your ticket price if you want the same perk as someone staying at a deluxe. I don't understand how Universal gets a complete pass for having a system offering a perk only to deluxe guests but if Disney does it it's a big deal. There is definitely a double standard.

 

[ford91exploder]

Disney could easily do the same thing. Double your ticket price if you want the same perk as someone staying at a deluxe. I don't understand how Universal gets a complete pass for having a system offering a perk only to deluxe guests but if Disney does it it's a big deal. There is definitely a double standard.

I don't think there is a double standard at work here, Disney has always prided itself on the egalitarian nature of the guest experience ie everyone is treated the same and since Disney has been doing this for 50+ years at multiple parks it triggers bad feelings when Disney starts 'monetizing' parts of the guest experience especially when it breaks the egalitarian model.

UNI's FOTL was chargeable before the hotels were built, UNI just added FOTL to their Deluxes as an inducement to stay at Their deluxe rather than the Hilton or Marriott.

 

[Bolna]

DLP sells special unlimited Fastpasses. Not available everyday and I think they are around 50 or 60 Euro per person. But there is an incident of Disney charging for FP available already.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't think there is a double standard at work here, Disney has always prided itself on the egalitarian nature of the guest experience ie everyone is treated the same and since Disney has been doing this for 50+ years at multiple parks it triggers bad feelings when Disney starts 'monetizing' parts of the guest experience especially when it breaks the egalitarian model.

UNI's FOTL was chargeable before the hotels were built, UNI just added FOTL to their Deluxes as an inducement to stay at Their deluxe rather than the Hilton or Marriott.

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but the original Universal Express pass was free to anyone and more like fast pass. The front of the line thing they have now rolled out about 10 years ago after IOA and the resorts were built. Someone more knowledgeable than me can confirm or deny that.

Either way I still see it as a double standard. I have no problem with Disney or Universal offering added perks for their deluxe hotel guests. It's good business. Being upset by Disney doing it but OK with Universal is a double standard any way you slice it.

 

[GoofGoof]

DLP sells special unlimited Fastpasses. Not available everyday and I think they are around 50 or 60 Euro per person. But there is an incident of Disney charging for FP available already.

For $175 an hour you can get a VIP tour at WDW and have unlimited FP entries. No clue if that will still exist now with FP+ or how it will work, but it is available if you have the cash.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but the original Universal Express pass was free to anyone and more like fast pass. The front of the line thing they have now rolled out about 10 years ago after IOA and the resorts were built. Someone more knowledgeable than me can confirm or deny that.

Correct, Universal Express Pass was a free service almost identical to Disney's FastPass. The Universal Orlando Resort very quickly realized the operational implications of the system and replaced it with the add-on Universal Express Pass Plus and Universal Unlimited Express Pass Plus.

 

[Bolna]

For $175 an hour you can get a VIP tour at WDW and have unlimited FP entries. No clue if that will still exist now with FP+ or how it will work, but it is available if you have the cash.

Yes, I was going to add that to my original post as well, but then wasn't totally certain about whether I had remembered it correctly!

I very much believe that Disney is happy to let people pay for quicker access to attractions as long as it does not cause a huge outcry. That's why the slow introduction of FP+ is such a great opportunity. I think officially all the resort guests who now have access to it, are only "testing" it. So - how long will this testing continue and what will the end result be? I would not be surprised if there is no huge announcement or anything about it, the old FP machines will just disappear one day and day guests will be able to use the FP+ kiosks in the park, just like the Swan and Dolphin guests will be in that first non-resort guest test. And voila - you still have FP+ for everyone, but it is quite a worthless perk since the great FP+ selections have already gone to the resort guests...

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, I was going to add that to my original post as well, but then wasn't totally certain about whether I had remembered it correctly!

I very much believe that Disney is happy to let people play for quicker access to attractions as long as it does not cause a huge outcry. That's why the slow introduction of FP+ is such a great opportunity. I think officially all the resort guests who now have access to it, are only "testing" it. So - how long will this testing continue and what will the end result be? I would not be surprised if there is no huge announcement or anything about it, the old FP machines will just disappear one day and day guests will be able to use the FP+ kiosks in the park, just like the Swan and Dolphin guests will be in that first non-resort guest test. And voila - you still have FP+ for everyone, but it is quite a worthless perk since the great FP+ selections have already gone to the resort guests...

I agree with your theory. Disney said the FP+ system will be available to everyone so they won't go back on that now, but you are describing the exact loophole they will exploit.

 

[danv3]

Yes, I was going to add that to my original post as well, but then wasn't totally certain about whether I had remembered it correctly!

I very much believe that Disney is happy to let people pay for quicker access to attractions as long as it does not cause a huge outcry. That's why the slow introduction of FP+ is such a great opportunity. I think officially all the resort guests who now have access to it, are only "testing" it. So - how long will this testing continue and what will the end result be? I would not be surprised if there is no huge announcement or anything about it, the old FP machines will just disappear one day and day guests will be able to use the FP+ kiosks in the park, just like the Swan and Dolphin guests will be in that first non-resort guest test. And voila - you still have FP+ for everyone, but it is quite a worthless perk since the great FP+ selections have already gone to the resort guests...

This is pretty much what I would expect as well, but Disney marketing certainly likes to hype up non-events, so I could see some kind of a press event for FP+'s "launch."

Not to get too political, but Disney should be very happy about the healthcare.gov debacle. Makes Disney's web implementation look awesome by comparison!

 

[RSoxNo1]

One idea that was being considered was to let everyone book 60 days out but to adjust what's offered based on resort level. For example, Deluxe Resort guests could book all 3 MK mountains, Moderate 2 mountains, Value 1 mountain, offsite 0 mountains.

Disney is trying to find the right balance between providing a better experience to its onsite (especially Deluxe) guests without driving away local AP holders. Disney needs to come up with a scheme to justify NextGen's huge budget.

My problem with any of the more complicated schemes is how to advertise them. How do you explain to someone considering an upsell the difference between resort levels. Today, all onsite guests get EMH. Ok, that's extra time in the parks, not too difficult to understand. But given the complexity of some of the schemes being considered, exactly how does Disney explain them to the casual customer?

Perhaps this is where travel agents step in.

That's the thing, this is overly complex. In the current system, all of the information you need is on the Fastpass ticket you acquire. Sure it helps to understand it before hand, but the ticket says when you can get a new one and what your return window is. This is also self governing based on attraction popularity. I think trying to establish a set # per day is the wrong approach. It means that people will book Fastpasses that they won't necessarily use, or don't necessarily want simply because they'll feel that they are obligated to.

The current system doesn't have these issues. There are plenty of options for adapting the legacy day-of system, such as:

• Longer return windows
• Additional Fastpasses day-of that are outside of the legacy distribution rules (3/2/1 based on deluxe/moderate/value)
• Quicker windows to get new Fastpasses for on-site guests (Example: If an attraction's return time is two hours out, you can get a new fastpass 1 hour out).

So many of these problems derive from the fixed # per day. That requires the addition at attractions that don't need it, as well as all sorts of fairness questions. It is a wholly unnecessary approach that should be modified.

At this point, Next Gen is happening, as is Fastpass+. However, I'm not convinced that Disney knows all aspects of it. They can still call something Fastpass+, and as long as it uses the infrastructure in place it can be considered a success. As fans, we very well may be able to help shape Next Gen, and I wrote something for Mice Chat today that says just that.

 

[ParentsOf4]

WDW will offer some form of FP+ to everyone but does access mean equal access?

There will be MagicBand-only experiences and, as Disney has stated publically, MagicBand will be an upsell for offsite vacationers. Onsite guests also have EMH so WDW has set a precedent to provide onsite guests with special benefits.

Let's recall CEO Bob Iger's words from 6 months ago:

"We have for years had in place products that are available only to hotel guests. And actually, one thing that I think Jay alluded to, didn't say specifically, is the My Magic Plus will definitely encourage people to stay more on-property than off-property. Jay was talking about essentially by being able to plan ahead, people will basically have more plans with us, and that will in effect discourage them from doing other things. I think it will also encourage them to stay more in our hotels. And so I think you have to look at that as an additional value to My Magic Plus."

If FP+ is offered equally to onsite and offsite guests, exactly how does that encourage more onsite guests?

Excluding S&D and Shades of Green, WDW has about 4300 DVC, 5700 Deluxe, 7500 Moderate, and 10,600 Value Resort rooms. Profits realized on DVC sales and Deluxe Resort Cash Rooms Only are astronomical. Potential profits from additional DVC sales and Deluxe Resorts bookings far outpace anything they could ever hope to achieve with the approximate 18,100 combined Moderate & Value Rooms. (And even those have impressive margins.)

Occupancy rates for the Value Resorts are pretty good. It's why the last two non-DVC resorts to open (AOA in 2012 and POP in 2003) have been Value Resorts.

However, Deluxe Resort room prices have simply become so insane (a basic 450 sq ft Theme Park View room at the Grand Floridian is over $1000/night this Christmas) that their occupancy rates have been declining for years. They represent a tremendous loss of profit opportunities. Disney has to do something to get their occupancy rates back up and, internally, suggesting they should lower prices is a non-starter.

Meanwhile, they've spent over $2B on the grossly over budget NextGen initiative. They need to take some dramatic steps to justify its cost or heads will roll. No executive wants their career to be saddled with a NextGen failure.

Corporate leadership has become so obsessed with squeezing pennies out of guests that they've largely ignored improvements to what guests are there for; the parks themselves. FP+ provides Disney with an incredible opportunity to influence each guest's experience within those theme parks, to influence how good of an experience each guest receives. For Disney to not take advantage of the control gained through FP+ to improve Deluxe Resort occupancy rates would be to miss a golden opportunity for enhanced revenue performance. As several have suggested; Universal already does it, why not Disney?

Given NextGen's budget overruns, their Deluxe Resort's occupancy problems, and a corporate culture bent on squeezing out every last cent, it would be naïve to image executives at Disney not using FP+ to pursue further revenue improvements. The only thing being debated within the halls of Burbank right now is which go-forward plan results in the biggest profit gains.

 

[JenniferS]

WDW will offer some form of FP+ to everyone but does access mean equal access?

There will be MagicBand-only experiences and, as Disney has stated publically, MagicBand will be an upsell for offsite vacationers. Onsite guests also have EMH so WDW has set a precedent to provide onsite guests with special benefits.

Let's recall CEO Bob Iger's words from 6 months ago:

"We have for years had in place products that are available only to hotel guests. And actually, one thing that I think Jay alluded to, didn't say specifically, is the My Magic Plus will definitely encourage people to stay more on-property than off-property. Jay was talking about essentially by being able to plan ahead, people will basically have more plans with us, and that will in effect discourage them from doing other things. I think it will also encourage them to stay more in our hotels. And so I think you have to look at that as an additional value to My Magic Plus."

If FP+ is offered equally to onsite and offsite guests, exactly how does that encourage more onsite guests?

Excluding S&D and Shades of Green, WDW has about 4300 DVC, 5700 Deluxe, 7500 Moderate, and 10,600 Value Resort rooms. Despite the larger numbers for Value Resorts, profits realized on DVC sales and Deluxe Resort Cash Only Rooms (CRO) are astronomical. Potential profits from additional DVC and Deluxe Resorts sales far outpace anything they could ever hope to achieve with the approximate 18,100 combined Moderate & Value Rooms. (And even those have impressive margins.)

Occupancy rates for the Value Resorts are pretty good. It's why the last two non-DVC resorts to open (AOA in 2012 and POP in 2003) have been Value Resorts.

However, Deluxe Resort room prices have simply become so insane (a basic 450 sq ft Theme Park View room at the Grand Floridian is over $1000/night this Christmas) that their occupancy rates have been declining for years. They represent a tremendous loss of profit opportunities. Disney has to do something to get their occupancy rates back up and, internally, suggesting they should lower prices is a non-starter.

Meanwhile, they've spent over $2B on the grossly over budget NextGen initiative. They need to take some dramatic steps to justify its cost or heads will roll. No executive wants their career to be saddled with a NextGen failure.

Corporate leadership has become so obsessed with squeezing pennies out of guests that they've largely ignored improvements to what guests are there for; the parks themselves. FP+ provides Disney with an incredible opportunity to influence each guest's experience within those theme parks, to influence how good of an experience each guest receives. For Disney to not take advantage of the control gained through FP+ to improve Deluxe Resort occupancy rates would be to miss a golden opportunity for enhanced revenue performance. As several have suggested; Universal already does it, why not Disney?

Given NextGen's budget overruns, their Deluxe Resort's occupancy problems, and a corporate culture bent on squeezing out every last cent, it would be naïve to image executives at Disney not using FP+ to pursue further revenue improvements. The only thing being debated within the halls of Burbank right now is which go-forward plan results in the biggest profit gains.

Thank you, as usual, for explaining things in a manner that we can all understand.

Thank you also, for using paragraphs, separated by spaces and for using capitals and punctuation. It makes it so much easier to read your lengthy explanations; because they are worth reading. Every word.

 

[rael ramone]

No, people like myself I would think. Walked into Epcot 10 days ago, shortly after opening. Went for a Soarin FP, fully expecting a late day time.

Nope. All gone.
Booked up in advance by FP+ users.
I was disadvantaged by the system, and going forward it will have an impact on my choice of Disney destinations.

Just got back myself.

Was there at Epcot ropedrop 2 Thursdays ago.

8:55 at the gate.
Took 10 minutes to get through (the only thing slower than reading an unadorned MouseArrest band is trying to read one that has 'accessories' added to it).
9:05 went straight to Soarin.

Standby was 10 minutes (IIRC). FP arrival times were for mid afternoon. Got a FP first, then got in Standby. (Each ride is different. Different locations of dust particles each time!).

When I got out of the ride, the return times were 8:10 to 9:00 pm. And once I got outside the pavillion the 'all FP are gone' sign went up.

And the park itself as a whole didn't seem like it was busy enough to use the Soarin FP up so fast.

FP-Minus doesn't mean less 'rope-drop' arrivals to get stuff done. Just the opposite.

There won't be less 'commando' type touring. There will be more. Much more.

And all with a customer base that doesn't possess either the stamina or the immune system to co-operate with such a plan. Meaning the parks will be germier than an airplane, and lots of lost park days by guests due to illness.

 

[GoofGoof]

Just got back myself.

Was there at Epcot ropedrop 2 Thursdays ago.

8:55 at the gate.
Took 10 minutes to get through (the only thing slower than reading an unadorned MouseArrest band is trying to read one that has 'accessories' added to it).
9:05 went straight to Soarin.

Standby was 10 minutes (IIRC). FP arrival times were for mid afternoon. Got a FP first, then got in Standby. (Each ride is different. Different locations of dust particles each time!).

When I got out of the ride, the return times were 8:10 to 9:00 pm. And once I got outside the pavillion the 'all FP are gone' sign went up.

And the park itself as a whole didn't seem like it was busy enough to use the Soarin FP up so fast.

FP-Minus doesn't mean less 'rope-drop' arrivals to get stuff done. Just the opposite.

There won't be less 'commando' type touring. There will be more. Much more.

And all with a customer base that doesn't possess either the stamina or the immune system to co-operate with such a plan. Meaning the parks will be germier than an airplane, and lots of lost park days by guests due to illness.

I've heard a lot of things blamed on FP+, but how does it make the parks germier? Is that a real word? Even if it's not I like it so I'm gonna reuse it.

 

[rael ramone]

I've heard a lot of things blamed on FP+, but how does it make the parks germier? Is that a real word? Even if it's not I like it so I'm gonna reuse it.

More people (not less) pushing themselves to the physical limit (and way, way beyond such limit) to maximize the dollars they spend. People who normally have low to no exertion jobs who pair that up with a couch potato lifestyle all of the sudden spending 16 hours on their feet every day, surrounded by others doing the same. And all using the same filthy bathrooms (a complaint I made to GR during my trip). The end result is a bunch of people with greatly reduced immune systems.

Another reason to not do the Dining plan. Who knows how many days you will lose to illness now.

(and on the subject of park cleanliness and the priority it once held - remember when you'd *never* see a suit in the parks without a pickup stick? I only saw one the whole trip that wasn't in the possession of the janitorial staff - and a fair amount of suits walking around with other suits.

 

[GoofGoof]

More people (not less) pushing themselves to the physical limit (and way, way beyond such limit) to maximize the dollars they spend. People who normally have low to no exertion jobs who pair that up with a couch potato lifestyle all of the sudden spending 16 hours on their feet every day, surrounded by others doing the same. And all using the same filthy bathrooms (a complaint I made to GR during my trip). The end result is a bunch of people with greatly reduced immune systems.

Another reason to not do the Dining plan. Who knows how many days you will lose to illness now.

(and on the subject of park cleanliness and the priority it once held - remember when you'd *never* see a suit in the parks without a pickup stick? I only saw one the whole trip that wasn't in the possession of the janitorial staff - and a fair amount of suits walking around with other suits.

FP+ will lead to more people pushing themselves to the physical limit? I guess if you consider standing in standby lines pushing yourself. I'm not sure I buy that the system will result in more illness in the parks, but it's an interesting theory.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That's the thing, this is overly complex. In the current system, all of the information you need is on the Fastpass ticket you acquire. Sure it helps to understand it before hand, but the ticket says when you can get a new one and what your return window is. This is also self governing based on attraction popularity. I think trying to establish a set # per day is the wrong approach. It means that people will book Fastpasses that they won't necessarily use, or don't necessarily want simply because they'll feel that they are obligated to.

One of the main reasons that it is so complex right now is because everyone and their brother is interpreting and guessing about what the end result will be. We don't know yet. I doubt that they even know yet. That is why they are being so vague about it. They don't know. That's what all the testing is about.

Perhaps once it is finalized and in place it will be far less complicated then all our individual opinion are. We'll see, I guess!

 

[Cesar R M]

FP+ will lead to more people pushing themselves to the physical limit? I guess if you consider standing in standby lines pushing yourself. I'm not sure I buy that the system will result in more illness in the parks, but it's an interesting theory.

I think he means as to force yourself to walk to each attractions at all costs to ensure you never lose your FP+ position.
the FP+ issue might deal with higher and tighter time contains for the park visitors. (as they said, no more unlimited FP) so a lot of people will be "must do it at all costs even if it kills me!" because they do not want to wait 30 minutes in line under the heat or the cold.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

WDW will offer some form of FP+ to everyone but does access mean equal access?

There will be MagicBand-only experiences and, as Disney has stated publically, MagicBand will be an upsell for offsite vacationers. Onsite guests also have EMH so WDW has set a precedent to provide onsite guests with special benefits.

Let's recall CEO Bob Iger's words from 6 months ago:

"We have for years had in place products that are available only to hotel guests. And actually, one thing that I think Jay alluded to, didn't say specifically, is the My Magic Plus will definitely encourage people to stay more on-property than off-property. Jay was talking about essentially by being able to plan ahead, people will basically have more plans with us, and that will in effect discourage them from doing other things. I think it will also encourage them to stay more in our hotels. And so I think you have to look at that as an additional value to My Magic Plus."

If FP+ is offered equally to onsite and offsite guests, exactly how does that encourage more onsite guests?

Excluding S&D and Shades of Green, WDW has about 4300 DVC, 5700 Deluxe, 7500 Moderate, and 10,600 Value Resort rooms. Despite the larger numbers for Value Resorts, profits realized on DVC sales and Deluxe Resort Cash Only Rooms (CRO) are astronomical. Potential profits from additional DVC and Deluxe Resorts sales far outpace anything they could ever hope to achieve with the approximate 18,100 combined Moderate & Value Rooms. (And even those have impressive margins.)

Occupancy rates for the Value Resorts are pretty good. It's why the last two non-DVC resorts to open (AOA in 2012 and POP in 2003) have been Value Resorts.

However, Deluxe Resort room prices have simply become so insane (a basic 450 sq ft Theme Park View room at the Grand Floridian is over $1000/night this Christmas) that their occupancy rates have been declining for years. They represent a tremendous loss of profit opportunities. Disney has to do something to get their occupancy rates back up and, internally, suggesting they should lower prices is a non-starter.

Meanwhile, they've spent over $2B on the grossly over budget NextGen initiative. They need to take some dramatic steps to justify its cost or heads will roll. No executive wants their career to be saddled with a NextGen failure.

Corporate leadership has become so obsessed with squeezing pennies out of guests that they've largely ignored improvements to what guests are there for; the parks themselves. FP+ provides Disney with an incredible opportunity to influence each guest's experience within those theme parks, to influence how good of an experience each guest receives. For Disney to not take advantage of the control gained through FP+ to improve Deluxe Resort occupancy rates would be to miss a golden opportunity for enhanced revenue performance. As several have suggested; Universal already does it, why not Disney?

Given NextGen's budget overruns, their Deluxe Resort's occupancy problems, and a corporate culture bent on squeezing out every last cent, it would be naïve to image executives at Disney not using FP+ to pursue further revenue improvements. The only thing being debated within the halls of Burbank right now is which go-forward plan results in the biggest profit gains.

And thus ends my WDW vacations.