Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[englanddg]

Gary Goddard had the audacity to think that the audience was smart enough to understand that Jurassic Park was larger than shown in the title film and decided to explore an attraction from the book.

What is a book?

 

[Bairstow]

...and let us not forget Camp Jurassic, the best water/net/cave area ever built.
Seriously, that thing is a little masterpiece.

The Discovery Center, though, woof.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What is a book?

I actually don't know. Something my grandparents talk about.

 

[Cletus]

And since someone got their panties in a bind about Jurassic Park, don't forget about the "plans" to add an additional ride where the "extinct" Triceratops area is. And don't even get us all started about the rumored Kong attraction going in behind Thunder Falls. Both will most likely be done long before The Luminescent Land of the Pocahontas Story is completed.

It's not that people dislike Disney (well....actually, in their current state I do) but you are a foolish person to not understand what is happening right now. Like it or not, people are slowly but surely crawling out of the Glue Mouse Trap. It's only going to get worse for the Billion(s) Dollar Bandits. People will STILL be lined up trying to catch a ride on the Hogwarts Express to Diagon Alley by the time WE GET TO RIDE A FREAKING BOAT through the new "land" that even most Disney fans aren't hip on.

I suggest upping the dosage to .5 mg before you go off the deep end. It's going to get way worse.

 

[stlphil]

I am truly bewildered. Get off a ride with very complex anamatronics and call it "plastic"? Then get on Peter Pan and think it's great with it's one or two moving parts? I simply do not understand it at all. What is everyone really comparing? It's a puzzle! Was someone expecting a real Mermaid?

I don't even know where to begin.

Okay, let's start with the Mermaid ride. The first Ariel is too close, too brightly lit. She looks as plastic as a cheap baby doll; so what if she is a complex animatronic, the suspension of disbelief is broken. "Under the Sea" has plastic flora and fauna everywhere with simple gyrations that only serve to call attention to themselves "hey look at me more plastic". Ariel's hair- no longer an ice cream cone, but still not looking like, well, hair. Just plastic. Of course hair underwater should be flowing around freely. If there was naturally flowing hair, I think this alone could have distracted enough from the plastic everything else to make the scene believable. The only redeeming feature of the ride itself (as opposed to the setting and queue) is the Ursula animatronic. And of course the biggest mistake of all is violating the Marc Davis rule, that is, rides should not try to convey a plot, they should instead try to immerse you in the essence of story. That is the biggest failing of both this ride and Nemo. The best dark rides don't slavishly convey a plot- rides like Pirates, Mansion, Toad, and dare I say it Peter Pan.

The essence of the Peter Pan ride is the glorious flight out the bedroom window to soar over London, to glimpse Neverland and get a hint of adventures to come. The stars of the show are London and Neverland (which are most definitely not plasticky), not the simple figures with few moving parts so as to not call undue attention to themselves. I get off the ride and forget that there are even moving figures in there, because they are not central to the experience. Sure the ride would be better if they were complex animatronics, but only marginally so because they still wouldn't be the stars of the show. They're just there to flesh out story (not convey a plot).

One final thought on Mermaid. Despite all the shortcomings I listed above, I still think the ride could have been saved if the ride mechanism was the suspended system in the Baxter video instead of an omnimover. Being under the sea is essentially like flying, with free motion in 3 dimensions, and this freedom could have been conveyed much better by the suspended system to give a much more immersive experience (like the flying in Pan).

 

[stlphil]

Really? I did it with my kid. It was the only ride that really made me have a nervous thrill (in a good way!). It's just that adults are not allowed to ride it without a kid (as I recall).

Yes, I hate that you need to rent a kid to ride it.

 

[stlphil]

I think part of the problem is Disney is being held to its own standard it set, while Universal is judged somewhat against itself. WDW is a resort that is/has been stagnating, Universal is a resort with tangible plans and an aggressive roadmap. The current product has its issues, but when you consider the roadmap it is easy to stop being so critical because "they are going to fix that in 2-3 years".

Universal seems to be evolving, WDW is mostly idling or standing still. The gap is closing and people will trumpet progress while spitting venom at a breakdown of a product. Sure one is the bigger, "better" product, but Universal is on a better trajectory, and that is why most arguments are through rose-coloured glasses.

Objectively attraction for attraction Magic Kingdom is better than IOA, but it is a park that has largely been the same way for longer than IOA has even existed.

Despite this I would rank IOA higher than MK on my list, what you are arguing is that is not truly objective, and I admit it isn't. When a far superior product (Disneyland) is available, it takes away somewhat from the lower version.

I don't like the Magic Kingdom because when I am there I always find myself wishing I was at Disneyland instead (except for Tomorrowland).

 

[stlphil]

And since someone got their panties in a bind about Jurassic Park, don't forget about the "plans" to add an additional ride where the "extinct" Triceratops area is. And don't even get us all started about the rumored Kong attraction going in behind Thunder Falls. Both will most likely be done long before The Luminescent Land of the Pocahontas Story is completed.

It's not that people dislike Disney (well....actually, in their current state I do) but you are a foolish person to not understand what is happening right now. Like it or not, people are slowly but surely crawling out of the Glue Mouse Trap. It's only going to get worse for the Billion(s) Dollar Bandits. People will STILL be lined up trying to catch a ride on the Hogwarts Express to Diagon Alley by the time WE GET TO RIDE A FREAKING BOAT through the new "land" that even most Disney fans aren't hip on.

I suggest upping the dosage to .5 mg before you go off the deep end. It's going to get way worse.

I really, really, really loved the Triceratops encounter, which was a true little gem of an attraction, and greatly lament it's passing. Totally immersive (and not plasticky) to experience such a great animatronic close up. The only thing comparable is the dragon under the castle at Disneyland Paris.

 

[djlaosc]

I really, really, really loved the Triceratops encounter, which was a true little gem of an attraction, and greatly lament it's passing. Totally immersive (and not plasticky) to experience such a great animatronic close up. The only thing comparable is the dragon under the castle at Disneyland Paris.

I always wanted to see it, but never got a chance to...

 

[PhotoDave219]

Again.....most miss my point. It is not to trash the Universal Islands of Adventure. I've been plenty and like it but the complaints against Disney also reside in Universal and listening to people make a silly argument that they do not has gotten old as the forum is now full of this mentality like it is required for membership to some cult.

Have at it though......fire away with the insults, troll claims and all that. good night

No, I see it more about momentum. UOR/IOA has much more momentum because therye actually doing something an reinvesting in their parks.

Disney? They havent done much since 2005 when it comes to reinvesting in attractions/shows/entertainment to keep guests coming back.

I feel Disney is being stagnant. I hope that changes because there's so much that needs fixing or reinvested in. (Plus not to mention the animal stock at DAK is getting old.)

I like both theme park companies for different reasons, I just wish Disney would pick up the gauntlet that Universal has thrown down and live up to what they were known for.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Within modern manufacturing, value engineering tends to focus on reducing the cost of goods sold while maintaining or even increasing the consumer price of those goods. Value engineering is focused on increasing margins.

As applied to WDW, value engineering refers to Disney management's propensity in recent years to reduce the production cost of their goods by using less expensive and often lower quality material. Abandonment of custom printed napkins for generic brown napkins is an example of recent value engineering. Whether it's food or merchandise, it refers to WDW management's focus on reducing cost by eliminating variety and concentrating on high margin goods. The goal is not to reduce the cost to consumers; they are charged the same no matter how little the items cost to produce. Instead, it's to get WDW's "guests" to pay a premium for the Disney name without actually receiving a premium product.

Old school corporate Disney focused on providing excellent value to its customers. Case studies throughout the 1980s and 1990s often cited Disney as a company of excellence, intent on improving financial performance by providing a superior product, "the Disney difference".

Under Iger, the focus has shifted towards cashing in on the positive corporate image. Especially at WDW, the focus has been on value engineering the product.

In recent years, most intellectual resources at WDW have been devoted to identifying ways to squeeze out a few more pennies from their "guests" while Universal has been thinking big and focusing on winning the dollars

Even the $2B invested in NextGen has been more about maximizing return on the existing infrastructure rather than product improvement. NextGen is mostly about repackaging. At the end of the day, NextGen does nothing to increase ride capacity. At the end of the day, it's still the same old WDW.

Beancounters.

Juking the stats. (Seasons 3/4 of The Wire for the reference)

In short, under Iger, Disney has done a great job of making themselves look good on paper without doing much of any substance at all in the theme park realm.

This led to a higher stock price and short term profits/gains instead of a long term investment strategy that will ultimately win out through quality, driving growth for years to come.

We're supposed to be excited about attractions that wont be open until 2017?

 

[PhotoDave219]

You just described many Disney lifestylers.

Side thought.... I havent been to the parks in a few weeks. I really dont miss the headaches and the hassles of fighting the crowds or the drama of other locals.

Instead, I've been milking every cent out of the $60 i spent on a ticket to my very own virtual world in Los Santos, San Andreas.

 

[flynnibus]

Within modern manufacturing, value engineering tends to focus on reducing the cost of goods sold while maintaining or even increasing the consumer price of those goods. Value engineering is focused on increasing margins.

As applied to WDW, value engineering refers to Disney management's propensity in recent years to reduce the production cost of their goods by using less expensive and often lower quality material.

At the core - they are the same. The problem is in the case of Disney.. the fans are often more interested in the 'how' then the actual outcome (see every 'screens suck' thread). In industry, the motivation is to reinvent to do more with less, etc. In the case of Disney, the motivation is the same... 'Take this concept, and do it better..' Same exact thing... The problem is how does one define 'better'...

The compromises TDO allow or use in their refinements are associated with negative connotations in the fan community. Hence, when WDW1974 exposed TDO's use of the term 'value engineering' to describe their process of reworking a concept to be done cheaper.. and we all see the outcome as inferior to the original concept.. in the fan community 'value engineering' becomes synonymous with 'cheapening'. The principles are actually the same - It is the tolerance for what is 'equivalent' is actually what fans are critical of and where TDO's version of value engineering has become a negative term.

Negative by association...

 

[stevehousse]

So back to what really is important...

Seeing as how May 2014 will mark the 25th anniversary of DHS, do you think they are saving the big Star Wars Land announcements and any other projects for that time or will we hear something sooner???

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Please try......I'd like to hear someone defend Flight of the Hippogriff, defend the job done with the Dueling Dragons coaster as some kind of Potter theme that makes no sense. I literally found the exact same stuff on both sides of a gift shop (sometimes the same rack) that was the size of a room in my house "Oh, more Jellybeans!" It was initially a pretty cool thing to see the Hogsmeade Village but that faded quickly (that from a huge fan of the books and movies). Then we get to the School.........HUGE expectations on what could be done......scared to death a young lady in the vehicle and made 4 out of the 4 in our group queasy. Should have been more Haunted Mansion and less whatever it was......The picture on the screen was TERRIBLE quality (especially considering the criticism that Soarin takes when it is WAY older and it still looks better than that mess).

I do not get the praise heaped upon this place from so many........Simpsons is a food court that is really awkward (should have tore down and rebuilt. Transformers is a warehouse with a billboard (vinyl sign) on the sides.

Jurassic Park......one ride......it makes no sense.....there is water flowing through there with rafts??? Where are the jeeps? Not one other ride or attraction? The Ultrasaurus doesn't look a machine or anything with that crane neck! The best park was literally walking in the entrance.....the ride had potential as some of the AAs were really cool, but a boat? What?

I have similar issues with our guys at Disney but the praise all goes to Universal and I do not see it. Of course I can't even begin to fathom how someone looks at what all will happen on the SDMT and call it a "kiddie coaster" (see Hippogriff or Barnstormer). SDMT has a whole new ride feature with the swaying, show scenes inside a freaking mountain that in itself is an amazing visual addition to the park and CRAZY cool visuals of the whole place while on outside portions of the track. It is going to be awesome on many levels. Everyone will be able to enjoy it in my opinion. Mermaid is not impressive but it is a cool little dark ride for my daughter and she loves the show with Belle. This area is often bashed for the exact issues that are present in the WWOHP. Carsland out does both areas and Avatar looks to be even better with two very cool attractions and an area that will be an attraction itself with all the new features.

Lets here the defense though....Im curious.

Flight of the Hippogriff is a larger, better version of the same ride system that Barnstormer uses and has better themeing. The Hippogriff AA and Hagrid'd Hut are both well done and fit the Hogwarts grounds perfectly.

Concerning Dragon Challenge, the themeing in the queue does a fine job if relating to that portion of the Triwizard Cup from The Goblet of Fire. And until someone comes up with a trackless looping coaster ride system to convey dragons flying through the air, track is something that we will have to accept.

Considering Universal has created over 1000 pieces of park exclusive Potter merchandise and they are housed in 4 seperate unique stores (Zonko's Joke Shop for novelty toys, Dervish and Bangs for "school supplies" like house sweaters, robes, and text books, Honeydukes Sweet Shop, and Filtches for WWOHP souvineers) and the is little cross over merchandise. I think your complaints of the same merchandise in multiple locations to be literally laughable. Especially in light of Disney's "One Disney/ Disney Parks" homogenization where the Frontierland shops are filled with Princess merchandise.

Concerning JP and their boat ride, well IOA is loosely based on print media and low and behold, in Michael Crichton's novel Jurassic Park, it was a boat ride. And UniCreative was also aware that, at the time of hammering out the parks concepts, Disney was planning a jeep based Dinosaur ride for their Animal Kingdom park. There are more than one attraction in Jurassic Park. There is the JP River Adventure, Pteradon Flyers, Camp Jurassic, and The Discovery Center's Lab. Triceratops Encounter, while shuttered a lot of the time is supposed to be reworked and revived with the current expansion plan. Along with adding a family coaster and at least one other attraction.

All in all, I find your assessment of IOA to be amazingly biased and laughable.

And what vinyl billboard sign on Transformers? To the best of my recollection Transformers has a 30 foot tall Optimus Prime statue and a 3D lighted and animated sign.

 

[janoimagine]

Side thought.... I havent been to the parks in a few weeks. I really dont miss the headaches and the hassles of fighting the crowds or the drama of other locals.

Instead, I've been milking every cent out of the $60 i spent on a ticket to my very own virtual world in Los Santos, San Andreas.

You get the golf course yet? Thats the only property I have yet to buy.

 

[Longhairbear]

Trying to book a Dec visit at a DVC villa on points with our DVC membership at DLR with no luck. Second choice is DLH, then PPH.
The inns are full.

 

[Disneybear]

No, I see it more about momentum. UOR/IOA has much more momentum because therye actually doing something an reinvesting in their parks.

Disney? They havent done much since 2005 when it comes to reinvesting in attractions/shows/entertainment to keep guests coming back.

I feel Disney is being stagnant. I hope that changes because there's so much that needs fixing or reinvested in. (Plus not to mention the animal stock at DAK is getting old.)

I like both theme park companies for different reasons, I just wish Disney would pick up the gauntlet that Universal has thrown down and live up to what they were known for.

I wish Disney would pick up the gaunlet that was thrown down by Walt Disney.

 

[ford91exploder]

At the core - they are the same. The problem is in the case of Disney.. the fans are often more interested in the 'how' then the actual outcome (see every 'screens suck' thread). In industry, the motivation is to reinvent to do more with less, etc. In the case of Disney, the motivation is the same... 'Take this concept, and do it better..' Same exact thing... The problem is how does one define 'better'...

The compromises TDO allow or use in their refinements are associated with negative connotations in the fan community. Hence, when WDW1974 exposed TDO's use of the term 'value engineering' to describe their process of reworking a concept to be done cheaper.. and we all see the outcome as inferior to the original concept.. in the fan community 'value engineering' becomes synonymous with 'cheapening'. The principles are actually the same - It is the tolerance for what is 'equivalent' is actually what fans are critical of and where TDO's version of value engineering has become a negative term.

Negative by association...

Flynn, No matter how hard you try to spin 'value engineering' talk to a REAL engineer about 'value engineering' and they will know EXACTLY what you mean it means 'cheapening the product'.

Engineers don't like to do that. It means lessening safety factors and increasing breakage in service - ie take a part with a %0.01 failure rate and reduce material usage so failure goes up to %1.0, To a US manager it means that out of 100 units only ONE will break. To an engineer it means that failure rate has increased 100 fold. This kind of thinking is what handed much of the Auto industry to the Japanese beginning in the 1970's.

To a Japanese manager if he sees a failure rate of .01% he will ask whether it's possible to reduce it to .001% or even less. That is adding VALUE to the product and it's called Kaizen - 'Change for the Best' t not 'Value Engineering'

 

[danv3]

So back to what really is important...

Seeing as how May 2014 will mark the 25th anniversary of DHS, do you think they are saving the big Star Wars Land announcements and any other projects for that time or will we hear something sooner???

Disney often doesn't seem very concerned with anniversaries, so I'd guess that any DHS announcement would be independent of the anniversary. Whether sooner or later, I don't know. Maybe at Star Wars Weekends?