Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[wdisney9000]

But the only people who will know it sucks will be the few Disney geeks. Most people won't know that they're waiting longer for SSE, PotC or Haunted Mansion. They'll just know they waited less time for Space.

They will have an overall impression of long lines, except for FP, but they won't know why. So they will not care about the whole FPP.

It's like the people who swear the dining plans are such a great deal. They don't remember the days before the dining plans, so, to them, the dining plan SAVES money.

Same deal.

Good point. Only a few have realized the dining plan for what it is. However, the dining plan wasnt advertised as a huge game changer like MM+ has been. MM+ may be under much more scrutiny due to them selling it as a such a big deal which in turn may put a huge spot light on it. If it busts, the media will be salivating to run a story on how Disney blew at least $1 billion+ dollars. Im sure the execs already have a sacrificial offering/employee for the story in case it does happen.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I know I'm about 100 pages late, but I just wanted to say that The Palm at Hard Rock Hotel gives Shula's a run for it's money. But the best steak in Orlando is at The Bull and Bear in The Waldorf.

Whaaaaaaaaaa? I'll have to try

 

[PhotoDave219]

It's to help keep the highways in such great condition.

Yes as you can tell by the quality of I-95 between Baltimore & Wilmington... :eyeroll

 

[alphac2005]

I don't think TWDC is working with government to disclose info from NGE. This is due to the fact that the government actually wouldn't benefit from that sort of info. Advertisers on the other hand would pay top dollar for a peek. Also, your correct to say that the government and Disney have had collaborations in the past. However such collaborations were merely Disney playing consultant on security in highly tourist areas (facial recognition, biometrics, etc). Just my two cents though. I think this shouldn't be an issue of big government in more of your business.

I see it exactly how you do.

 

[PhotoDave219]

You're supposed to be able to use the E-pass in Florida! I have. Worked okay. I don't know which states you had charges in, though, and haven't driven 95 through all the states you did. $32 in tolls is a LOT!

Hope your trip was worth it!

The baseball game was $34. (Walk it off!)

I have a Sunpass which is not compatible with EZ pass

 

[Funmeister]

So, I guess MyMagic band CAN, WILL and DOES interact with you in your home!

I guess the fanbois will use this info to justify the ever increasing NextGen boondoggle budget!

If you have Disney's Infinity....lay your band across your console. If it can do that...it can do a lot more....with YOUR INFO!

@WDW1974 have you heard of any other non-park uses like this?

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Ives paid nearly $30 in tolls from Pittsburgh to NYC/ Teaneck before. I don't travel that way often enough to bother with PA ez-pass

 

[ParentsOf4]

So, setting FastPassMinus aside, what was the purpose of the original FastPass system? Was it the same?

The original hook for FP was that guests would spend more time shopping while waiting for their return times. It never worked as intended; most simply grabbed a FP for one attraction and immediately jumped in line for another attraction.

Iger and Rasulo have been surprisingly candid about FP+'s goal. As Rasulo so bluntly put it:

"So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet."

MM+ is not designed to bring in new guests, like a new attraction traditionally does. It's designed to get the guests Disney already has to stay onsite longer and spend more of their Orlando vacation dollars at WDW.

 

[Captain Neo]

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...nges-phineas-ferb-redo-of-imagination.871880/

If that is Legit (and I see no reason why it isn't) I can guarantee I will never set foot on WDW property again. It will just keep going more and more downhill from here.

 

[MattM]

Just to be clear again, even though people will misstate my views to suit their agendas, I am not saying the government is involved in any form. BUT ... I am saying that Disney is doing business with a lot of people that have nothing to do with trust, faith and pixie dust.

And anyone who can not see any possible real world/security applications for Disney's NGE is just refusing to see reality.

If you are not saying the federal government is involved in any form, can you clarify what you meant when you said in Post 3970 on Aug. 14, 2013:

I just wonder, though, as a reporter and all ...might it be of interest to the public the connection between NGE and Disney's 'partnership' with the Federal government (being, that Jason is first and foremost a political beat writer and self -professed political junkie) and certain departments?

If there is no involvement, then to what "partnership" were you referencing?

Truly curious.

 

[englanddg]

The original hook for FP was that guests would spend more time shopping while waiting for their return times. It never worked as intended; most simply grabbed a FP for one attraction and immediately jumped in line for another attraction.

Iger and Rasulo have been surprisingly candid about FP+'s goal. As Rasulo so bluntly put it:

"So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet."

MM+ is not designed to bring in more guests, like a new attraction traditionally does. It's designed to get the guests Disney already has to stay onsite longer and spend more of their Orlando vacation dollars at WDW.

For the new Guest...this just might work...but I doubt it. Why?

The price of most of the merch immediately causes a "lets do that later"...also the fact that a vast majority of the merch now is no different than you will find in any local Toys R Us for half the price.

For a regular / repeat Guest, I don't see this working at all because Disney just doesn't change out it's merch fast enough to maintain any sort of interest.

The first year I went, I spent nearly 2k on various merch and goodies (most of it buying souvaniers for everyone in the family I could think of plus close friends). The second year, around 3k (I got some Disney Art...that raised the price quickly, and I had two "first timers" with me).

Last year I spent less than 1k, and that includes nearly 1/4 of it being Universal merch, and this year, well...almost nothing really, comparatively. If you exclude the overpriced photo package at the Dolphin Swim (which was around $350), I spent less than $700 total.

For 20 days in DCL / WDW...that's...WAY TO LOW! (at least that's what I'd be thinking if I were Disney Management)...

 

[Goofyernmost]

But the only people who will know it sucks will be the few Disney geeks. Most people won't know that they're waiting longer for SSE, PotC or Haunted Mansion. They'll just know they waited less time for Space.

luv, I'm not sure that many will even know that they waited less time for Space. They will only know that if they are one of us, you know those that have spent way to much time in a Disney Park. We know what has been the norm since the original FP was instituted, and some of us from before that time. They will not know that those FP lanes never existed before this year. They will assume if it has a FP designation, then it must be as popular as Mom and Apple Pie. There will be very little argument when it is requested that they accept a FP for SSE because they are supposedly out of FP's for Soarin. For all they know, both have equal speed of movement in the line and are top sellers, so you need a FP to ride them in your lifetime. It will work and since it has a small chance of discovery from the newbie's it will stay that way. We will know better they won't!

Now on the plus side...it is possible that this could actually speed up the overall movement of people from the notoriously slower loading lines. It might work out for those of us that decide not to tell everyone else what we know and just take advantage of it. That is, of course, if it works out that way. We still don't know and won't know until it is 100% in place.

 

[ParentsOf4]

For the new Guest...this just might work...but I doubt it. Why?

The price of most of the merch immediately causes a "lets do that later"...also the fact that a vast majority of the merch now is no different than you will find in any local Toys R Us for half the price.

For a regular / repeat Guest, I don't see this working at all because Disney just doesn't change out it's merch fast enough to maintain any sort of interest.

The first year I went, I spent nearly 2k on various merch and goodies (most of it buying souvaniers for everyone in the family I could think of plus close friends). The second year, around 3k (I got some Disney Art...that raised the price quickly, and I had two "first timers" with me).

Last year I spent less than 1k, and that includes nearly 1/4 of it being Universal merch, and this year, well...almost nothing really, comparatively. If you exclude the overpriced photo package at the Dolphin Swim (which was around $350), I spent less than $700 total.

For 20 days in DCL / WDW...that's...WAY TO LOW! (at least that's what I'd be thinking if I were Disney Management)...

I understand where you are coming from but you are not seeing it the way a Disney exec sees it. In their eyes, they have "guests" lining up to pay crazy prices.

I thought it would be fun to book a table at CRT for the day after Thanksgiving, having not been there in 10 years. I felt lucky to get a table for around 1:30 PM (not at the 180-day mark no less). Went to book it and they wanted to immediately charge my credit card $375 for my party of six! Obviously, I cancelled but that's how a Disney exec sees it; a bunch of rubes willing to pay insane prices for ordinary food.

They want those rubes staying onsite longer. Give them a guaranteed FP+ on Monday for Peter Pan, Tuesday for TSM, Wednesday for Soarin', Thursday for EE, and Friday for Space Mountain and they are more likely to visit longer and spend stupidly at WDW instead of visiting less and spending stupidly somewhere else in Orlando. They have data showing that tourists tend to be fast-and-loose with their money while on vacation. If they can just get them to not leave the property, then they will spend more at Disney.

This strategy was planned when Disney felt Orlando tourism was relatively flat, maybe 1-2% growth per year over the long haul. It was planned when WDW was the only serious game in town. It was planned before WWOHP, before the Universal renaissance. Universal showed that, if you build the right attractions, tourists will come in droves.

Only recently has Disney management begun to lift its head out of the sand and started to realize that they just might have thrown away a couple of billion dollars on the theme park equivalent of John Carter.

 

[nytimez]

Went to book it and they wanted to immediately charge my credit card $375 for my party of six!

That's just crass.

 

[PeterAlt]

I have a quick story I want to share...

Did you know that Michael Eisner has a person friendship with the multi-billionaire entrepreneur and Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. It's a particularly odd friendship, considering that Eisner's background. Anyway, it is because of this friendship that the Crown Prince intervened a couple of times and bailed Disney out when things were not doing so great. This relationship may have also contributed to warming prospects for Middle East peace. Let me explain.

When EuroDisney had its problems, Eisner called his friend, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. Eisner used his friendship to pursued him to buy an ownership stake in the troubled resort, effectively bailing them out. As part of the deal, Eisner agreed to allow the Crown Prince, who is also owner of the Four Seasons chain of resorts, to open one at WDW. It took a long time to get started, but this is why the current Four Seasons resort at WDW is getting built.

Also, during the 2000 events at EPCOT, if you recall, there was a temporary Israeli pavilion. A movie shown at the pavilion declared Jerusalem Israel's eternal undivided capital. This infuriated the Arab world. The Palestinians sees Jerusalem as the capital of the eventual future state of Palestine. As a response, the Arab League of Nations voted to boycott all things Disney. Eisner responded by paying a visit to his good friend in Saudi Arabia.

I don't know what was discussed and who proposed what, but immediately after the meeting, Saudi Arabia convinced a majority of nations in the Arab League to lift the boycott on Disney unconditionally. Coincidentally, around this time, Saudi Arabia presented their own vision on Middle East peace. The vision recognizes Jerusalem as the united capital of Israel, but it cleverly takes the land immediately outside Jerusalem in the West Bank (that the Palestinians today say is part of Jerusalem) and renames this territory "Al Kudz", which is Arabic for Jerusalem, and make this the Palestinian capital. This would allow the Palestinians to claim Jerusalem as its capital in any final peace treaty, and allow Israel to continue to claim Jerusalem as its undivided capital.

As a side note, my cousin (the same one who recently got married and roomed with Steve Jobs' daughter Lisa while in college - and is good friends with her) once went on a date with one of the younger prince' of Saudi Arabia (before she got married). I don't know how this was brought up but they talked about peace in the Middle East. He disclosed to her that the Royal Family secretly does business with Israeli companies. He told her that they have no problem with the State of Israeli. They just can't say that publicly or the Arab masses will dethrone them.

On a side note, my cousin said throughout the date, he was obsessed with talking about how much money he has. No matter what she would talk about, he would always steer the conversation back to how much money he has...

 

[Goofyernmost]

"So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet."

MM+ is not designed to bring in new guests, like a new attraction traditionally does. It's designed to get the guests Disney already has to stay onsite longer and spend more of their Orlando vacation dollars at WDW.

That is something that I wonder about as well. Unless, a new attraction is so good that it brings a lot of word of mouth and company promotion, I don't think that it will automatically bring new guests in. In fact, in my mind, that means that if the very pockets that they are trying to get deeper in, are the return guests, they are the ones that need to be given a reason to return. For those that have never been, absolutely every attraction in the parks is new to them. They already have a reason to go there...what do people like me, someone that has been a modest 42 times in 30 years, find as a reason to go back again. A new attraction is the answer, if they don't build that...what is my incentive.

I can see how the fingers deeper in the pockets could possibly be workable with new guests even better then veterans, but, if that is true it doesn't jive with catering to the Disney loyalist. The group that returns year after year likely has been mentioned earlier in this War & Peace Epic like thread as the target. In fact, doesn't this mean that they are really setting up for the new guest and not us oldies at all. Without us they don't need anything new, they can go for years with what currently exists. Couldn't they?

Wouldn't that make sense as it relates to the fact the it seem like the year after year AP purchaser is actually getting less perks then before. They don't want those of us that remember how it was before things went down the tubes. They don't want all the veterans that are always trying to find a way to scam for parking, free sodas, etc. Wouldn't we be the ones that complain about diminished maintenance, less to do, fewer shows, fewer parades, less joy and imagination. Aren't we the ones that remember the former glory of EPCOT and never fail to point it out. Wouldn't we be the royal PITA guests that they could happily do without.

It could be just me, but I have been thinking all along that we were being targeted to spend more money and that new guests were not in the cross-hairs at all. Now all of a sudden I think that we are the ones not in the cross-hairs. We are going to Knotts Geriatric Farm to finish out our time.

 

[englanddg]

I have a quick story I want to share...

Did you know that Michael Eisner has a person friendship with the multi-billionaire entrepreneur and Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. It's a particularly odd friendship, considering that Eisner is Jewish. Anyway, it is because of this friendship that the Crown Prince intervened a couple of times and bailed Disney out when things were not doing so great. This relationship may have also contributed to warming prospects for Middle East peace. Let me explain.

When EuroDisney had its problems, Eisner called his friend, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. Eisner used his friendship to pursued him to buy an ownership stake in the troubled resort, effectively bailing them out. As part of the deal, Eisner agreed to allow the Crown Prince, who is also owner of the Four Seasons chain of resorts, to open one at WDW. It took a long time to get started, but this is why the current Four Seasons resort at WDW is getting built.

Also, during the 2000 events at EPCOT, if you recall, there was a temporary Israeli pavilion. A movie shown at the pavilion declared Jerusalem the eternal undivided capital of the Jewish state. This infuriated the Arab world. The Palestinians sees Jerusalem as the capital of the eventual future state of Palestine. As a response, the Arab League of Nations voted to boycott all things Disney. Eisner responded by paying a visit to his good friend in Saudi Arabia.

I don't know what was discussed and who proposed what, but immediately after the meeting, Saudi Arabia convinced a majority of nations in the Arab League to lift the boycott on Disney unconditionally. Coincidentally, around this time, Saudi Arabia presented their own vision on Middle East peace. The vision recognizes Jerusalem as the united capital of Israel, but it cleverly takes the land immediately outside Jerusalem in the West Bank (that the Palestinians today say is part of Jerusalem) and renames this territory "Al Kudz", which is Arabic for Jerusalem, and make this the Palestinian capital. This would allow the Palestinians to claim Jerusalem as its capital in any final peace treaty, and allow Israel to continue to claim Jerusalem as its undivided capital.

As a side note, my cousin (the same one who recently
got married and roomed with Steve Jobs' daughter Lisa while in college - and is good friends with her) once went on a date with one of the younger prince' of Saudi Arabia (before she got married). My cousin, being Jewish, asked him how he felt about going on a date with a Jewish girl. He told her that he and the Royal Family have many Jewish friends and secretly do business with Israeli companies. He told her that they have no problem with the Jewish people or the State of Israeli. They just can't say that publicly or the Arab masses will dethrone them.

On a side note, my cousin said throughout the date, he was obsessed with talking about how much money he has. No matter what she would talk about, he would always steer the conversation back to how much money he has...

So, if I read this correctly, that means that the mysterious monorail footers are really underneath Temple Mount?

 

[flynnibus]

in most cases especially when something is illegal or borderline illegal the government is both, CIA is not allowed to spy on americans, They are however allowed to set up companies they do so, IN-Q-TEL is one of them IQT develops tech and does commercial spying using commercial databases, CIA then purchases IQT's work product and the CIA can say with 'plausible deniability' that they did not 'Spy' on americans they just purchased data from a data broker.

I'm familar with the concept of funding through 3rd parties to obfuscate the lineage... but what does that have to do with the post you replied to?

My post was questioning how WDW1974 has been posting that Disney is in bed with these associated companies to make the project work... yet then says 'well they are interested in what Disney is doing' aka the methodology used. So who is leading who here? You don't hire people to build it.. if they don't already have a plan on how to do it. And why are you interested in the methodology if you are already the expert in the field?

It doesn't add up to be both the curious.. and the expert... concurrently.

 

[flynnibus]

Hotel rooms and DVC are infrastructure. Yes, they generate revenue but they're a place to stay while you're out touring the parks. The reason someone is going to buy a DVC is because they're close to the parks. Sure, there are some people that love the hotels and are buying solely for the hotels. However, most people that are investing in DVC are doing so because they want to go to the parks. If you don't improve the parks, the demand for DVC goes down.

I could understand someone saying 'Lodging' is a necessary infrastructure element to make a destination resort possible. Just like having feeder transportation elements are necessary to make the resort feasible. However I would not agree with extending that notion to DVC.. nor would I connect any of that lodging investment in the same type of category of what we were referring prior.. as Lodging is something that is revenue generating in its own right and can be self-sufficient. DVC in itself is not 'lodging' in the sense that to make a multi-day destination feasible, people need somewhere to stay. DVC in itself is a upsold product above and beyond the barebones to make a resort viable.

 

[englanddg]

I could understand someone saying 'Lodging' is a necessary infrastructure element to make a destination resort possible. Just like having feeder transportation elements are necessary to make the resort feasible. However I would not agree with extending that notion to DVC.. nor would I connect any of that lodging investment in the same type of category of what we were referring prior.. as Lodging is something that is revenue generating in its own right and can be self-sufficient. DVC in itself is not 'lodging' in the sense that to make a multi-day destination feasible, people need somewhere to stay. DVC in itself is a upsold product above and beyond the barebones to make a resort viable.

DVC is like Amway (to me)...

I know some people think it's a great deal, and power to them. To me, it's a sap of resources...which, I may or may not choose to spend at Disney (or a partner provider)...

To each their own...