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Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
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PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I didnt find any of his information groundbreaking.... and if you're gonna screw with the NSA, you better leave the country and go off the grid if you do. You dont people at that level off and expect to live a long, fruitful life.
Edit: I also dont like his almost "attention " attitude about it all. If he really wanted to be a whistleblower, he'd have found a way to leak the information and not put himself in the limelight.
WildcatDen
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I have moved on to the Vince Flynn novels. . .
WildcatDen
Well-Known Member
I am doubting that we have seen or heard all he has or is going to reveal. I hope I am wrong.
RunnerEd
Well-Known Member
Debt of Honor/Sum of All Fears were my favorite Clancy's. I still believe that his solution to the Middle East "peace process" in Sum of All Fears could work if implemented. Goodness knows, nothing else has.
When Mystic Manor ride-throughs first showed up on YouTube, and when the D23 Expo did a presentation on Mystic Manor, social media lit up with fans clamoring for a clone of the attraction for WDW.
When rumors started circulating that Radiator Springs Racers and other elements of Cars Land might be cloned at DHS, fans expressed optimism and excitement, and hoped that it would help revitalize the park.
In stark contrast, every new bit of information about Pandora at DAK -- quite possibly the first significant, non-cloned attraction(s) at WDW in years -- is met largely by apathy or antipathy by a large portion of the fanbase.
What does it say about the current state of WDW when we've entirely given up on seeing new -- and compelling -- attractions designed expressly for WDW? When the last, lingering ember of hope lies in the remote possibility that we might one day get a clone of an E-ticket attraction that debuted in greener pastures?
As a fan of WDW, it kind of makes you feel like the neglected kid who's left to hope that maybe, if he's extra well-behaved, he'll get a hand-me-down once the favored siblings get through with it...
Lee
Adventurer
I read a bunch of Clancy's stuff back in the early '90's. (Really liked Red October.)
At some point back then I started to figure out his politics and gave him up. Just in time it seems. I never keep reading when an author starts to "collaborate" on his books. It's never the same. (I'm looking at you, Cussler...)
Connecting dots, I'm thinking DHS gets pretty much everything Anaheim gets. Shared budgets and whatnot...
RunnerEd
Well-Known Member
I'm so conflicted on the Snowden thing. I think he has elements of both hero and patriot if that makes any sense. I do know that, because of his revelations, people and organizations that want to do the US and our allies harm have changed the way they do business and that's never a good thing. His actions were not well thought out and he didn't reveal that much, which is why he had to stay at an airport for weeks before someone would agree to take him.
Lee
Adventurer
That could be due, at least in part, to the fact that they really haven't given us any information.
No art, no descriptions...
Just a lame story about having spent/wasted two years traveling to Pandora and back, and that's why they don't have anything to show us. Disastrous. Huge foot-bullet and a wasted opportunity to garner some goodwill for the project in the fan community.
WildcatDen
Well-Known Member
Amen to that. I suppose that is the part I do not get. There is a real possibility that people working to protect this country will lose their lives due to his or someone's similar actions, but we have people calling them hero's.
Time to go all Mitch Rapp on this guy. . .
Lee
Adventurer
As am I, but for different reasons (mostly relating to his past).
But here is not the place to venture any further down the political rabbit hole. That's how posts disappear...
OK, let's attempt to get serious again.
Disney is not evil. (Bob Iger may well be, but that's another story for another thread at another time.)
Sure, criticize NGE as you like, I sure do, but to say TWDC longs to truly place you and your family in a 'cybercuff' is pretty close to ridiculous. Right?
What isn't so clear though is where the boundaries for this initiative actually lie. Or, if there are any 'boundaries' with regard to data collection and control of your vacation experience once at WDW. That's where it is not only ripe for questioning, it's the responsible thing, the prudent thing to do.
It's simple. The bottom line is information can be dangerous. Information, unchecked by those in the know and unchallenged by the consumer that makes its way into undesired channels, can be misleading, misguided and driven to false interpretation. At WDW, it could also lead not merely to financial but physical vulnerability. Actual, serious, real world danger.
And, no, wishes, trust and Pixie Dust will not protect you.
Remember something, unlike Google or those 'loyalty' programs discussed, NGE has been built to TARGET AND PROFILE specific individuals. Here, every -- individual -- 'guest' in Orlando. Everyone at WDW.
Not just Mom. Or Dad. Or Uncle Lou and Auntie Sue. Everyone. Sorry, no exceptions, no exclusions, no substitutions and no opting out. Not, that is, if you want to actually do anything beyond hand TWDC your hard earned money and get to experience the amazing new (ask @TalkingHead) toilets all over property.
I welcome, in that Spirited way, questions or provocative posts by fellow posters (@flynnibus this certainly includes you and I owe you a note, which hopefully will come this weekend) who may know more about the technical aspects of this program because they work in the field. This forces me to go back and review certain items/documents/aspects applying the lens these posters suggest is needed. They are right.
But understand this as well.
While this is not the front page of the New York Times, I'm kind of beholden to standards higher than what one might typically find on a fan forum. As you all know well, too well, I like to vet material as thoroughly as possible and am hesitant to post without a near-certainty that the information I have is accurate. Especially when it is very important ... whether Pizza Planet or Mama Melrose's is going to become the Star Wars Cantina isn't quite as important (besides, as we all know, Trek beats Wars on so many levels!!!)
As many folks have requested more information on it, my experience with the frontline hardware on the CM side was limited but telling. Also, to be clear, this was provided in plain sight and in the front of the house. Obviously, I have no intention of telling you where, when or whom allowed me to play, just that a Spirited pal in the management ranks. But play I did ... what follows is as close to a blow by blow (no fanboi/Imagineer jokes here, please ... but you can think them) description of how some of the tech is set up to work ... it is 100% accurate unless George Kalogridis a lot smarter than I take him to be (and I do know the man) and he punked me knowing that I'd run to my MAGICal family and tell tales. So ...
The Apple-based technology used by the servers in restaurants is awkward and unnecessarily 'clunky'...The front desk/retail outlet terminals combined with the iPads are also needlessly cumbersome in practice. What should make things easier (that is the purpose, right?) seems to do the opposite. Guess they need to spend $4 billion.
It sure appears that the designers wanted the objects to be both functional and symbolic. We've seen that with the gateless system already in use at the parks.
As for time savings and ease of use, that is absolutely false. In fact, for most transactions, using the NGE technology adds several extra (needless?) steps. Should those steps be eliminated, you're still required to have another form of identification and payment "for verification." (This walletless BS is just that. As of now, according to the agreement you accept, Disney requires the aforementioned upon demand.)
Here's an example of paying for a table service meal with your MAGIC band:
1) server 'wakes' the device from its power-save mode;
2) server unlocks the device;
3) server alerts the device to either begin a new check or retrieve an existing one;
4) server then retrieves your check through a manual input;
5) server verifies check with customer;
6) server 'mates' the device with payment form -- your band;
7) server has you enter your PIN;
8) server manually walks the device to a register/terminal where a "unique" barcode is scanned from the handheld to that register or terminal;
9) server waits for the two devices to sync and deliver a printed receipt;
10) server brings the receipt to you for you to adjust/review...add the gratuity...and...finally, you sign and walk away -- transaction completed all in ten easy steps that ensures the next E-Ticket at the MK will come after UNI's third gate debuts.
Now, if that's efficiency at work to you, great. For me, a simple swipe of a KTTW or credit card always worked or a few green bills took care of it. Not anymore. Not with NextGen.
Without detailing the guts of the devices, as that's proprietary as Disney modified these existing Apple tech products, you -- the CM with the handheld device -- have access to that guest's itinerary. Important distinction here though, when running a typical charge you would likely only see the MAGIC band holder's identifiers. You're even prompted to refer to the guest by his or her first name (again, before, I suppose, it was just too hard to read that information from a card...)
BUT, the devices -- the iPad and iPhone based ones -- have 'menued' or tiered options allowing the CM to select any information within the NGE portfolio Disney has generated on you. Yes, by design, this includes where you are from, who you are traveling with, even where the system has detected you as having visited and where your next stop is supposed to be. All of this is supposed to make your experience all the more personal.
Right now, and on the devices I was privy to, you could find information that went well beyond the individual and the 'need-to-know' level at the location. You can find out not just the details of Guest XYZ's present trip, but the system appears to have integrated 'knowledge' of your 'relationship' with TWDC. There are fields for information to further enhance identification and further profile you.
This is not, to my experience, nearly a fully operational system though. For example, the options or fields/screens for additional information were not (are not?) active yet. At least, on the hardware presented to me, they weren't. As well, this kind of access, now available to any CM with a device and the ability to maximize its present usability, must be restricted when this is formally introduced to the consumer -- to the guest.
(Even then, there's some basis for concern given the product and the sheer number of people who will have open access.)
I have some more information on 'the guts' that cannot be published. Yet, anyhow. (More because there is no way of knowing IF this WILL EVER be functioning or functional than any other reason.)
As to the many comments, again, whether you agree/disagree/like/dislike, I welcome the commentary. It provokes thought, it promotes needed conversation on the topics involved.
That said, it is important to note that there's a troubling undercurrent -- a thread that runs through this entire project -- at play here. It's almost as though "tracking" is simply not sufficient to explain properly the aim/goal/mandate of NGE.
More, it is stalking. No, not in the some-guy-in-the-shadows way. But stalking just the same.
In that unlike tracking, NGE is less about seeking out what you want to do and more about predicting and 'suggesting' -- if not outright forcing you into or dictating -- certain experiences and/or behavior.
To me, that's a worrisome threshold to cross. One of many with this project.
And, after reading, in particular the comments of @danlb_2000 and @flynnibus, I reviewed everything I'd already poured over. It has me wondering why everything is so bathed in manufacturer-like, profoundly depersonalized terminology. I first thought I was just technically challenged by an over-reliance on acronyms. Then, I checked this stuff another time.
Many of the acronyms are from the world of huge contractors and governmental agencies.
Not entertainment companies.
But, more importantly, there's a complete void of discussion on cost, impact, yield, return...There's just nothing discussing the financial realities of developing a program -- any kind of program. Instead, it's all about "engagement" ... "deploying" ... "employing" ...and maximizing "scale" ... "site"... the "unique environment" ... the "venue" ...
I'm almost inclined to wonder if TWDC is a client here. That Disney is working on this for another company or companies as well as itself (?). There was a major shift with NGE that took hold in the summer of 2010. That's when Disney moved sharply from relying on contractors to hiring away those contractors under dubious titles with scary-strong IT backgrounds. Disney also brought aboard a cadre of new 'experts' on data collection, warehousing and systems integration from the non-corporate world.
Then again, we have a company that has removed the gates from the entrances to its four main parks. You really can't do that. You just can't.
Well, you can't do that unless your plans for NGE and its techno-reach goes far deeper than we have begun to discuss.
Having said that, I still think the idea of presenting Mickey as an overlord with cybercuffs on his minions -- oops, I mean Pixie Dusters -- is off. Maybe not ridiculous to consider, but still awfully close. NOT close enough to ignore though.
Disney is not evil. (Bob Iger may well be, but that's another story for another thread at another time.)
Sure, criticize NGE as you like, I sure do, but to say TWDC longs to truly place you and your family in a 'cybercuff' is pretty close to ridiculous. Right?
What isn't so clear though is where the boundaries for this initiative actually lie. Or, if there are any 'boundaries' with regard to data collection and control of your vacation experience once at WDW. That's where it is not only ripe for questioning, it's the responsible thing, the prudent thing to do.
It's simple. The bottom line is information can be dangerous. Information, unchecked by those in the know and unchallenged by the consumer that makes its way into undesired channels, can be misleading, misguided and driven to false interpretation. At WDW, it could also lead not merely to financial but physical vulnerability. Actual, serious, real world danger.
And, no, wishes, trust and Pixie Dust will not protect you.
Remember something, unlike Google or those 'loyalty' programs discussed, NGE has been built to TARGET AND PROFILE specific individuals. Here, every -- individual -- 'guest' in Orlando. Everyone at WDW.
Not just Mom. Or Dad. Or Uncle Lou and Auntie Sue. Everyone. Sorry, no exceptions, no exclusions, no substitutions and no opting out. Not, that is, if you want to actually do anything beyond hand TWDC your hard earned money and get to experience the amazing new (ask @TalkingHead) toilets all over property.
I welcome, in that Spirited way, questions or provocative posts by fellow posters (@flynnibus this certainly includes you and I owe you a note, which hopefully will come this weekend) who may know more about the technical aspects of this program because they work in the field. This forces me to go back and review certain items/documents/aspects applying the lens these posters suggest is needed. They are right.
But understand this as well.
While this is not the front page of the New York Times, I'm kind of beholden to standards higher than what one might typically find on a fan forum. As you all know well, too well, I like to vet material as thoroughly as possible and am hesitant to post without a near-certainty that the information I have is accurate. Especially when it is very important ... whether Pizza Planet or Mama Melrose's is going to become the Star Wars Cantina isn't quite as important (besides, as we all know, Trek beats Wars on so many levels!!!)
As many folks have requested more information on it, my experience with the frontline hardware on the CM side was limited but telling. Also, to be clear, this was provided in plain sight and in the front of the house. Obviously, I have no intention of telling you where, when or whom allowed me to play, just that a Spirited pal in the management ranks. But play I did ... what follows is as close to a blow by blow (no fanboi/Imagineer jokes here, please ... but you can think them) description of how some of the tech is set up to work ... it is 100% accurate unless George Kalogridis a lot smarter than I take him to be (and I do know the man) and he punked me knowing that I'd run to my MAGICal family and tell tales. So ...
The Apple-based technology used by the servers in restaurants is awkward and unnecessarily 'clunky'...The front desk/retail outlet terminals combined with the iPads are also needlessly cumbersome in practice. What should make things easier (that is the purpose, right?) seems to do the opposite. Guess they need to spend $4 billion.
It sure appears that the designers wanted the objects to be both functional and symbolic. We've seen that with the gateless system already in use at the parks.
As for time savings and ease of use, that is absolutely false. In fact, for most transactions, using the NGE technology adds several extra (needless?) steps. Should those steps be eliminated, you're still required to have another form of identification and payment "for verification." (This walletless BS is just that. As of now, according to the agreement you accept, Disney requires the aforementioned upon demand.)
Here's an example of paying for a table service meal with your MAGIC band:
1) server 'wakes' the device from its power-save mode;
2) server unlocks the device;
3) server alerts the device to either begin a new check or retrieve an existing one;
4) server then retrieves your check through a manual input;
5) server verifies check with customer;
6) server 'mates' the device with payment form -- your band;
7) server has you enter your PIN;
8) server manually walks the device to a register/terminal where a "unique" barcode is scanned from the handheld to that register or terminal;
9) server waits for the two devices to sync and deliver a printed receipt;
10) server brings the receipt to you for you to adjust/review...add the gratuity...and...finally, you sign and walk away -- transaction completed all in ten easy steps that ensures the next E-Ticket at the MK will come after UNI's third gate debuts.
Now, if that's efficiency at work to you, great. For me, a simple swipe of a KTTW or credit card always worked or a few green bills took care of it. Not anymore. Not with NextGen.
Without detailing the guts of the devices, as that's proprietary as Disney modified these existing Apple tech products, you -- the CM with the handheld device -- have access to that guest's itinerary. Important distinction here though, when running a typical charge you would likely only see the MAGIC band holder's identifiers. You're even prompted to refer to the guest by his or her first name (again, before, I suppose, it was just too hard to read that information from a card...)
BUT, the devices -- the iPad and iPhone based ones -- have 'menued' or tiered options allowing the CM to select any information within the NGE portfolio Disney has generated on you. Yes, by design, this includes where you are from, who you are traveling with, even where the system has detected you as having visited and where your next stop is supposed to be. All of this is supposed to make your experience all the more personal.
Right now, and on the devices I was privy to, you could find information that went well beyond the individual and the 'need-to-know' level at the location. You can find out not just the details of Guest XYZ's present trip, but the system appears to have integrated 'knowledge' of your 'relationship' with TWDC. There are fields for information to further enhance identification and further profile you.
This is not, to my experience, nearly a fully operational system though. For example, the options or fields/screens for additional information were not (are not?) active yet. At least, on the hardware presented to me, they weren't. As well, this kind of access, now available to any CM with a device and the ability to maximize its present usability, must be restricted when this is formally introduced to the consumer -- to the guest.
(Even then, there's some basis for concern given the product and the sheer number of people who will have open access.)
I have some more information on 'the guts' that cannot be published. Yet, anyhow. (More because there is no way of knowing IF this WILL EVER be functioning or functional than any other reason.)
As to the many comments, again, whether you agree/disagree/like/dislike, I welcome the commentary. It provokes thought, it promotes needed conversation on the topics involved.
That said, it is important to note that there's a troubling undercurrent -- a thread that runs through this entire project -- at play here. It's almost as though "tracking" is simply not sufficient to explain properly the aim/goal/mandate of NGE.
More, it is stalking. No, not in the some-guy-in-the-shadows way. But stalking just the same.
In that unlike tracking, NGE is less about seeking out what you want to do and more about predicting and 'suggesting' -- if not outright forcing you into or dictating -- certain experiences and/or behavior.
To me, that's a worrisome threshold to cross. One of many with this project.
And, after reading, in particular the comments of @danlb_2000 and @flynnibus, I reviewed everything I'd already poured over. It has me wondering why everything is so bathed in manufacturer-like, profoundly depersonalized terminology. I first thought I was just technically challenged by an over-reliance on acronyms. Then, I checked this stuff another time.
Many of the acronyms are from the world of huge contractors and governmental agencies.
Not entertainment companies.
But, more importantly, there's a complete void of discussion on cost, impact, yield, return...There's just nothing discussing the financial realities of developing a program -- any kind of program. Instead, it's all about "engagement" ... "deploying" ... "employing" ...and maximizing "scale" ... "site"... the "unique environment" ... the "venue" ...
I'm almost inclined to wonder if TWDC is a client here. That Disney is working on this for another company or companies as well as itself (?). There was a major shift with NGE that took hold in the summer of 2010. That's when Disney moved sharply from relying on contractors to hiring away those contractors under dubious titles with scary-strong IT backgrounds. Disney also brought aboard a cadre of new 'experts' on data collection, warehousing and systems integration from the non-corporate world.
Then again, we have a company that has removed the gates from the entrances to its four main parks. You really can't do that. You just can't.
Well, you can't do that unless your plans for NGE and its techno-reach goes far deeper than we have begun to discuss.
Having said that, I still think the idea of presenting Mickey as an overlord with cybercuffs on his minions -- oops, I mean Pixie Dusters -- is off. Maybe not ridiculous to consider, but still awfully close. NOT close enough to ignore though.
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
luv
Well-Known Member
Because nobody cares about Avatar or Pandora. It has no place in the AK.
Star Wars...I don't know how that will work out for them. I don't think it will be the huge draw that Harry Potter was/is. But at least Star Wars has some fans! And it would fit in DHS!
The door coaster would bring more people in than Star Wars, I think...if they built an awesome coaster and not a lame, typical-Disney, "coaster for people who don't like coasters."
WildcatDen
Well-Known Member
So, D23 seems. . . nice? Lots of good. . . information.
Anything good on HBO?
Anything good on HBO?
WildcatDen
Well-Known Member
jensenrick
Well-Known Member
Hmmm? What's Life Day?
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