Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[ParentsOf4]

You're wrong about that. Imagineers are fans (or else they wouldn't have this job), and they do spend personal time in the parks, enjoying themselves. I love your authoritative tone that's based on pure fantasy.

Are you for real? Do you really know Tony and the other senior Imagineering team so well that you can say this with confidence?

Or are you just making a guess because you get to be a big shot and your story the narrative you've adopted?
So many theories and angry rants about Disney management, so little actual experience with what's going on internally... I suggest we go easy on people, because remember, everyone in the world is fighting their own battles. That means you, that means me, that means the execs at Disney who are going what they think is right. Fitzgerald, Rohde and others aren't the monsters they seem to be made out to be. Baxter isn't a saint who has a golden touch. It's amazing to read the vitrol, hyperbole, hosannas and sheer imagination on this board when so little of it is grounded in reality. I understand being a fan and watching (and enjoying) things from the sidelines. But don't just invent stuff out of thin air.

Hello and welcome to wdwmagic.com with your first post.

 

[GoofGoof]

You're ridiculously wrong about that. Of course Imagineers are fans-- or else they wouldn't have this job. They do spend personal time in the parks, enjoying themselves. I love your authoritative tone that's based on pure fantasy.




Are you for real? Do you really know Tony and the other senior Imagineering team so well that you can say this with confidence?

Or are you just making a guess because you get to be a big shot and your story the narrative you've adopted?
So many theories and angry rants about Disney management, so little actual experience with what's going on internally... I suggest we go easy on people, because remember, everyone in the world is fighting their own battles. That means you, that means me, that means the execs at Disney who are going what they think is right. Fitzgerald, Rohde and others aren't the monsters they seem to be made out to be. Baxter isn't a saint who has a golden touch. It's amazing to read the vitrol, hyperbole, hosannas and sheer imagination on this board when so little of it is grounded in reality. I understand being a fan and watching (and enjoying) things from the sidelines. But don't just invent stuff out of thin air.

If this turns out to be what we are all thinking it probably is can I be the voice of reason and ask people not to respond. There has been some interesting discussion the last few days in here let's not derail it now.

 

[Winnie the Poop]

Hello and welcome to wdwmagic.com with your first post.

Thanks.

If this turns out to be what we are all thinking it probably is can I be the voice of reason and ask people not to respond. There has been some interesting discussion the last few days in here let's not derail it now.

I don't think my message needs much response. I made my thoughts clear.

 

[GoofGoof]

When I first saw EPCOT Ctr. in full, I was about 38 years old. I was there in February 1983, it was 4 months old and to be honest is was a little disheveled and unorganized. (unless both those words mean the same thing)

When I went two years later, I saw them all. The only one I'm not sure of is The Seas. It seems like I remember it from that trip, hydrolaters and all, but I'm too lazy right now to look it up. I was the quintessential Disney tourist back then. I didn't know there was a ride in SSE. I didn't know what was there (pre-internet) and what it was all about, so in the Land, I didn't see the Food show, don't remember the name (first one, Kitchen Kabaret maybe?) because I didn't even know it was there. On the other side of the park I did go to SSE (Walter Cronkite edition), Energy, Wonders of Life (didn't know about Cranium Command then either), Horizons, and World of Motion. In Imagination I rode the ride along with Dreamfinder and Figment and saw that atrocity called Captain EO.

I truly didn't appreciate what I saw on that trip until I think about what is there now and I understand the quality and talent it took to design and build that park. Those are the things that made EPCOT what it was. As I think back at it, I think that pretty much everything with the exception of the original Energy Pavilion would be totally relevant today and would still work. Omnimovers were our friends and it was that something that you didn't find anyplace else.

I apologize for possible mistaken names and possible mistaken memories, it was a long damn time ago.

EPCOT literally blew my mind in the mid-80s as a little kid. I loved MK too, but EPCOT was so out there like nothing I had ever seen. It's sad to see the state of Imagination now. I still love SSE even with it's flaws.

 

[disney fan 13]

Here we go again...

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

EPCOT literally blew my mind in the mid-80s as a little kid. I loved MK too, but EPCOT was so out there like nothing I had ever seen. It's sad to see the state of Imagination now. I still love SSE even with it's flaws.

I also love that one WDW XMAS day parade with Joan Lunden and Frank ________ with Regis going around EPCOT and all the pavilions esp. when he went inside the Living Seas pavilion standing over and looking down on the aquarium tank. Now that was a magical parade broadcast. I forget what year it was though, I think it was in the early 90s but correct me here though.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Here we go again...

At first I was confused about what you were talking about...I have now figured it out.

 

[MichWolv]

Although it is possible that a CFO might be just jam packed creative, but, the odds are that they are not. Just the accounting system prevents that way of thinking. Accounting is an exact science and there is no room for thinking out of the box. There is a good chance that anyone that would be able to tolerate the tedium of all that would not be a likely candidate to create things out of thin air. Embezzlers, now that's a different set of circumstances, but not one that would be desired in this case.

All you accountants out there, please don't take offense, I was one myself for a number of years. It's just the nature of the beast. My apologies to those that I have just offended.

You may have been an accountant, but your experience doesn't represent the experience that all of us have. It is not the nature of the beast at all. Indeed, accountants who can't think out of the box are bookkeepers. Accountants who can think out of the box are CFOs, investment bankers, successful businesspeople, etc. I don't find accounting tedious at all, and those who consider it tedious should do something else.

 

[OFTeric]

I think it is wort noting how long some things have gone untouched at WDW, and I think once you realize how long some of these "problems" have been around you begin to see where the Walt Disney Companies real priorities are, when you look at what has closed and not replaced and what hasn't been updated in an unacceptable amount of time.

Magic Kingdom

Main Street USA Attractions:

• Main Street Cinema - CLOSED with no replacement
• Penny Arcade - CLOSED with no replacement
• Swan Boats - CLOSED with no replacement
• The Walt Disney Story - CLOSED with no replacement

Tomorrowland Attractions:

• Astro Orbitor - last ride change 1994 - 19 years
• Buzz Light Year - Opened 1998 - 15 years
• Space Mountain - Opened 1975 / last change 2009 - 4 years
• Monsters Inc Laugh Floor - Opened 2007 - 6 years
• Stitches Great Escape - Opened 2004 - 9 years
• Tomorrowland Speed Way - Opened 1973 / last change 1999 - 14 years
• People Mover - Opened 1975 / last change 1994 - 19 years
• Carousel of Progress - Opened 1975 / last change 1993 - 20 years
• Skyway - CLOSED with no replacement

Fantasyland Attractions:

• Barnstormer - opened 1996 / last change 2012 - 0 years
• Dumbo - opened 1971 / last change 2012 - 0 years
• Little Mermaid - opened 2012 - 0 years
• It's a Small World - opened 1971 / last change 2005 - 8 years
• Mad Tea Party - opened 1971 / last change 1992 - 21 years
• Winnie the Pooh - opened 1999 - 14 years
• Mickey's Philharmagic - opened 2003 - 10 years
• Peter Pan's flight - opened 1971 - 42 years
• Carousel - opened 1971 - 42 years
• Snow Whites Scary Adventure - CLOSED with no replacement
• Skyway - CLOSED with no replacement

Liberty Square Attractions:

• Haunted Mansion - opened 1971 / last change 2007 - 6 years
• Hall of Presidents - opened 1971 / last change 2009 - 4 years
• Admiral Joel Fowerl - CLOSED with no replacement
• Mike Fink Keel Boats - CLOSED with no replacement

Frontierland Attractions:

• Big Thunder Mountain - opened 1988 / last change 2012 - 0 years
• Splash Mountain - opened 1992 - 21 years
• Country Bear Jamboree - opened 1971 / last change 2012 - 0 years
• Tom Sawyer Island - opened 1973 - 40 years
• Davy Crocket Explorer Canoes - CLOSED with no replacement

Adventureland Attractions:

• Jungle Cruise - opened 1971 - 42 years
• Pirates of the Caribbean - opened 1973 / last change 2006 - 7 years
• Swiss Family Robinson Tree House - opened 1971 - 42 years
• Magic Carpets of Aladdin - opened 2001 - 12 years
• Enchanted Tiki Room - opened 1971/ last change 2011 - 2 years

Epcot
Future World Attractions:

• Spaceship Earth - opened 1981 / last change 2007 - 6 years
• Universe of Energy - opened 1982 / last change 1996 - 17 years
• Mission Space - opened 2003 - 10 years
• Test Track - opened 1999 / last change 12 years - 0 years
• Seas with Nemo - opened 2007 - 6 years
• Turtle Talk with Crush - opened 2004 - 9 years
• Living with the Land - opened 1982 / last change 2006 - 7 years
• Soarin' - opened 2005 - 7 years
• Circle of Life - opened 1995 - 18 years
• Food Rocks - CLOSED with no replacement
• Journey into your immagination - opened 1982 / last change 2002 - 11 years
• Captain EO - opened 1986/2010 - 3 years
• Wonders of Life - CLOSED with no replacement

World Showcase Attractions:

• Gran Fiesta Tour - opened 1982 / last change 2007 - 6 years
• Malestrom - opened 1988 - 25 years
• Reflections of China - opened 2003 - 10 years
• American Adventure - opened 1982 / last change 1993 - 20 years
• Impressions De France - opened 1982 - 31 years
• O'Canada - opened 1982 / last change 2007 - 6 years

Disney Hollywood Studios Attractions:

• Rock N' Roller coaster - opened 1999 - 14 years
• Tower of Terror - opened 1994 / last change 2003 - 10 years
• Great Movie Ride - opened 1989 - 24 years
• American Idol - opened 2009 - 4 years
• ABC Sound Stage - CLOSED with no replacement
• Star tours - opened 1989 / last change 2011 - 2 years
• Indiana Jones Epic Stunt - opened 1989 - 24 years
• Backlot tour - opened 1989 /last change 2008 - 5 years
• Muppet vision 3D - opened 1991 - 22 years
• Honey I Shrunk the Kids Playset - opened 1990 - 23 years
• Magic of Disney Animation - opened 2004 - 9 years
• One Man's Dream - opened 2001 - 12 years
• Legend of Jack Sparrow - opened 2012 - 0 years
• Playhouse Disney - opened in 2011 - 2 years
• Voyage of the Little Mermaid - opened 1992 - 21 years
• Lights Action Motors - opened 2005 - 9 years
• Beauty and the Beast LIVE - opened 1991 - 22 years
• Hunch Back of Notre Dame - CLOSED no replacement
• Sections of the Backlot tour - CLOSED no replacement

Disney's Animal Kingdom Attractions:

• It's Tough to Be a bug - opened 1998 - 15 years
• Festival of the lion king - opened 1998 - 15 years
• Pocahontas and her forest friends - CLOSED no replacement
• Animal Kingdom Discovery Tour - Closed no replacement
• Kiliminjaros Safar - opened 1998 / last change 2012 - 0 years
• Kali River Rapids - opened 1999 - 14 years
• Everest - opened 2006 (last time Yeti was in A-mode 2009) - 7 years
• Finding Nemo the Musical - opened 2007 - 6 years
• Dinosaur - opened 1998 - 15 years
• Primeval whirl - opened 2002 - 11 years
• Triceratops spin - opened 2001 - 12 years

After examining this extremely long list. Please ask yourself, about any additions in the past 10 years, and ponder were they positive changes or negative changes. Food for thought.

 

[WildcatDen]

Hello and welcome to wdwmagic.com with your first post.

Will you welcome me for my not first post? P-P-P-Please. I just want to be loved, is that so wrong??

 

[WDW1974]

"Hated" isn't the right word. At least not when speaking of the vast majority of WDI.

I would say majority. Not sure I'd agree with vast, but we can argue that ... Bruce hated him and Tony hated Bruce. I'd reasonably say the same for Tom F.

Tony did rub some people the wrong way. Some didn't like how he became a "celebrity" to the fans. They thought he got too close to what many in WDI call "foamers". (I don't agree. I think a certain connection between Imagineers and the people who are the biggest fans of their work is not only desirable, but necessary.)

That is definitely true. And while Disney has tried to manufacture celeb Imagineers in the Tony way, no one else comes close because they come off as too corporate and too fake.

"
He was also old school, in the sense that he designed attractions the way the first generation imagineers did. Big, immersive and (for lack of a better term) magic. He wasn't into interactivity and video screens and was a somewhat outspoken (in some circles) critic of NextGen. It was clear he was never going to get behind the "yes man", get with the program wave that is pervasive in Glendale.

He wasn't a politician. I can hear someone saying that he isn't tactful (I know someone who used that exact term and I'm trying to recall who that was) ... I could see someone at WDI saying 'how could Tony go up there on stage with a co-worker and publically undress him?' (as he did to Eric in O-Town ... my answer would simply be Eric made a fool of himself and Tony simply pointed it out).

But in the end, it all comes down to being a politician, something Tony never was. @Eddie Sotto knows this, but I am quite certain he won't answer here and I don't expect him to. I just read his political non-answer comments on his own thread and he's entitled to answer or not answer whatever he wants. But that is what WDI has become all about and it was that way when Eddie left for the last time way back in '99.

"
Combine all that and in a climate full of poitics like WDI and you have an instant target on your back. Especially when you aren't totally on board with what the company bosses want and they know it.

What do you think impressed Tony more in O-town, WWoHP or New Fantasyland? Tony knows what a Disney park should be and what it shouldn't. ... Bruce Vaughn is a pretty little bureaucrat. In other words, he is a perfect politician.

 

[WDW1974]

-
Lee sums it all up perfectly.

You go, boy.

Be careful ... @Lee's ego may start growing. And he's so humble as is.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You may have been an accountant, but your experience doesn't represent the experience that all of us have. It is not the nature of the beast at all. Indeed, accountants who can't think out of the box are bookkeepers. Accountants who can think out of the box are CFOs, investment bankers, successful businesspeople, etc. I don't find accounting tedious at all, and those who consider it tedious should do something else.

You forgot to mention that they have a highly developed sense of humor as well!

 

[WildcatDen]

Be careful ... @Lee's ego may start growing. And he's so humble as is.

You do know that "Ego" is indopac-wintonwoo-nesianslang for something else, right? I mean, I understand you and Lee are pals, but that kind of 'friendship' should only go so far. . .

So, based on your new Spirited News, is the stay-cation to King's Island and Red's games a better choice than seeing the mouse. . . for the foreseeable future. . . like until I reach the Saint Pia-sadora Golden Buckeye Retirement Community in Pisgah,O-HI-A

 

[RSoxNo1]

That said, other great attractions are coming to UNI that have nothing to do with J.K. Rowling starting with Transformers. I am not willing to say everything UNI will add in the next five years will be great, but I do think they're largely aiming to be great and that makes you more likely to hit the target. Disney (at WDW) has not been aiming for anything more than OK. That shows too.

Personally, I think Disaster is the most underrated attraction in Florida and I keep hearing it may be going away. It's no secret that Universal is really putting on the pressure, the only complaint I'd have is that they're only building D and E-tickets. I can't even believe I just wrote that sentence, but it's true. They are only building major attractions and I'm somehow viewing that as a problem.

 

[OFTeric]

Personally, I think Disaster is the most underrated attraction in Florida and I keep hearing it may be going away. It's no secret that Universal is really putting on the pressure, the only complaint I'd have is that they're only building D and E-tickets. I can't even believe I just wrote that sentence, but it's true. They are only building major attractions and I'm somehow viewing that as a problem.

It is funny to say that. but I really feel that with Every E-ticket they build we really need to get 2 B/C ticket attractions.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Personally, I think Disaster is the most underrated attraction in Florida and I keep hearing it may be going away. It's no secret that Universal is really putting on the pressure, the only complaint I'd have is that they're only building D and E-tickets. I can't even believe I just wrote that sentence, but it's true. They are only building major attractions and I'm somehow viewing that as a problem.

I completely agree. The interstitial experiences are what flesh out a great theme park. That is what sets Disneyland so apart from others parks, that thick layering of experiences big and small.

 

[Lee]

You do know that "Ego" is indopac-wintonwoo-nesianslang for something else, right? I mean, I understand you and Lee are pals, but that kind of 'friendship' should only go so far. . .

Wait.....what,now?
Not sure what that means...but it has an air of ewww about it...

 

[WDW1974]

I guess my question is why didn't George show Michael around DLR like the week before and what not before his first day on the new job at WDW? I mean shouldn't you report to your new job on the first day? Not saying there's anything wrong with this and I'm sure George had a busy schedule and had to get a few final things done at DL same case with Michael, but I don't know, just kinda befuddles me (not a big deal).

It all is rather strange to me.

But so is Iger, Staggs and Crofton having dinner at the Grand Flo a week ago with no George Kalogridis in sight (BTW, I have no idea why, but some folks are apparently not happy I put this out!)

This company is very strange. VERY.

 

[WildcatDen]

Wait.....what,now?
Not sure what that means...but it has an air of ewww about it...

Ewwww with a capital O!

You an Spirit remind me of that scene in Princess bride where Mandy P asks Elwes who he is, he must know, and the reply is get used to disappointment. There, in one classic movie summary I have diplayed my curiousity on both your guys knowledge and the underlying sentiment of what is today's TWDC (minus ESPN of course!)