Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[WDWFanDave]

Such applications typically use web connections to talk to the provider - but its done differently than a user-facing webpage. A user webpage carries html markup text and images to render what you see. Apps like this typically have local content, and exchange data in markup languages like XML over http to exchange data and images. So similar transport - but different data and handling once it gets there. Its very common to feed machine to machine data over HTTPS (secure web) connections so the data goes through a web server, but would be handled by different code once it got there compared to user facing pages.

I haven't heard of crossing user profiles on the mobile app - only people's early problems with keeping the app logged in, or logging in at all.

I think problems with missing ADRs, reservations, etc are a different problem (which I think we've heard from both the web and mobile app). I think these problems are more like data consistency/handling problems.. where the crossing user issues are likely application (web app) problems. Just speculating based on what limited info we do know.. but the irony is, if my theories are right, solving the crossing user issue should be much more a direct fix, than the missing data problems are.



It's likely... in my experience these types of failures are common when people who aren't familiar with the existing tools are tasked with replacing them. If the previous stuff isn't documented perfectly, or is full of hacks, its very difficult for the 'new guys' to get it right. You try to mitigate that by testing as much as possible. But there are ways you can screw this up. Like.. testing with only simulated data vs using real world data. The simulated data will conform to the rules you expect the target system to have.. but if your expectations were wrong from the start.. when you goto the real world system.. you'll find scenarios you did not expect. Or if you simply didn't test with 'enough' data.. you may not have encountered those oddball cases.

But this user crossing problem sounds much more like application issues.. but it could be anything. The webserver side.. the production deployment setup.. etc. There are lots of ways things find a way to fail Without real specifics its all just kind of 'where are the common failures' kind of discussion at this point.

Different companies have different ways they mitigate these risks.. some companies just roll out.. some test in a staged environment.. some mimic their entire production environment and test.. even when you do the latter, there can be gotchas. But mimicking the entire production environment gets extremely expensive and difficult as you grow. Companies that are extremely paranoid about changes (like Telephone companies, utilities, etc) go to GREAT lengths to handle even the most minor changes in hardware or software.



No worries at all. I wish we knew more.. but these kinds of things typically only those directly involved in know the true details... the story that gets distributed outside the actual implementation groups are usually much more high level.. but if we are lucky, someone will leak/share what failure lead to the problem. AKA, bad design, bad implementation, unexpected combinations, etc.

I'm bothered if the problem hasn't been resolved yet and if we get reports still of new issues with the user logins.

Wow, and thanks! I actually understand 99% of that

The thing is, for me, I would really love for this to work, but to make my Disney, and my family's Disney experience better. I actually love some of the conveniences they are trying to bring to us, along with the stuff that some don't like...for instance, I think it'd be pretty neat to be able to go in to meet Mickey with my family and have the new Mickey, the one that talks, be able to carry on a conversation with us, and a mildly informative one at that. Also, I don't mind the 'tracking' component of my activities...I'd only have issue with it if it were trying to be done without my knowledge. If they can tell that I'm getting stuff for my daughter on her birthday, and they know that from our past trips she has a favorite character, and oh-by the way, we have something new and spectacular at the gift shop in Belle's village that you daughter would love and you can't get it anywhere else...by all means, send me an alert.

My concern is the problems they seem to be having now. And whether or not they'll get it right. I fear that they've built too many systems over the years, systems that don't easily talk to each other, systems that can't play nice with each other, and now they have a new headmaster called MM+, and no amount of screaming or hand slapping from the headmaster is going to get them to get along nicely. I hope I'm proven wrong, and that it doesn't 'break the bank' from them proving me wrong. I don't want to ever go back to a WDW where I have to ride the Carousel of Progress and feel like I need a shower after I leave the theater...because there are such gaps in the walls that the smoking area has completely permeated the theater, and I also don't want to need medical attention because the seat that I sat in initially is in such disrepair that I almost fell on the floor. My concern is that things like that will just get set aside, the attraction will be shuttered, and a piece of WDW will sit vacant and unused for time unknown, because the checkbook simply isn't a bottomless pit.

So, again, thank you. I do think that they'll be able to pull it all together, but it sure seems like they've got quite a bit of work ahead of them.

 

[dhall]

Database coding issue...should have been fixed quickly; however, I would guess that there are more project teams associated with this that I originally assumed. If that were a database I run (and I do run about 21 different database systems on my server), it would have been shut down until the programming team figured out why the issue was happening. I can guess the issue (as can anyone with programming experience), but that should have never been allowed in a live environment. I'd also guess their testing program is somewhat lacking....

I'm guessing it's bad session management in the web tier or bad credential caching between web and the application servers. It feels (from the description) a lot more like some kind of caching problem than with any of the databases themselves. Those are a lot harder to actually prove, and are almost never caught by testing since it's generally an issue of scale (QA typically can't get a production sized cluster of servers set up to simulate caching across the cluster)

edit -- Now I see that flynn jumped on this as well.

 

[flynnibus]

My concern is the problems they seem to be having now. And whether or not they'll get it right

I look at it as they've had growing pains like this before.. with past systems and even major rides themselves. Its ugly while they sort it out.. but generally they do. this thing is so huge.. I think what you'll see is a slower phased roll out if their stuff goes as bad as it has seemed to be so far. The real problem is if they amplify the problem by ignoring the bad stuff and keep pressing on. Then they just make the sink hole bigger.. and harder to climb out from. I don't think any of us lose from a slower roll out.. so I have no issue if it takes that.

 

[71jason]

I too have never heard very positive things about going through the College Program. Disney likes to go around telling students it is an internship, making it sound like much more than what is actually involved.

The College Program is dangerously close to sweatshop labor. It pays college students minimum wage, if that, then charges them housing costs out of their paycheck. Maybe 1 in 50 CPs ends up with a job even remotely related to their major.

Professional Internships are a step up. They are actually tied to a major, and some PIs end up with something approaching real world experience (one PI I knew was essentially running a prominant lounge on the nights she worked, for example). A lot of mid-level Disney managers seemed to get there start here. And most PIs already did one stint as a CP. But ultimately, there are so many kids on the CP, with three shifts a year, and just not that many management positions at WDW.

 

[baymenxpac]

The College Program is dangerously close to sweatshop labor. It pays college students minimum wage, if that, then charges them housing costs out of their paycheck. Maybe 1 in 50 CPs ends up with a job even remotely related to their major.

Professional Internships are a step up. They are actually tied to a major, and some PIs end up with something approaching real world experience (one PI I knew was essentially running a prominant lounge on the nights she worked, for example). A lot of mid-level Disney managers seemed to get there start here. And most PIs already did one stint as a CP. But ultimately, there are so many kids on the CP, with three shifts a year, and just not that many management positions at WDW.

let's call the college program what it is: the equivalent of a study abroad program, which anyone who has done one can tell you usually equates in more hanging out and drinking than anything else.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Obviously ride operator is not what her degree is in, but yes she can use her degree within the company. She took the job because she likes WDW and as a foot in the door at TWDC. From what she has said moving around within the company (at least at WDW) is quite challenging. She knew what she signed up for and actually does not complain about it very much at all. She is actively working on things to get her to her "dream" job.

My point was to illustrate that what the CMs are paid is not really a living wage and a company with an image and supposed values such as Disney should be treating it's employees better and that there is a huge disparity in wages among the different employee levels. I agree that one can't just sit back and wait for things to happen.

Good, from my experience this is what happens. A CM can easily get lost in the literal ocean of CM's that work there. One must keep applying for everything that comes up that will fit in with 1) experience and 2) education. The real fact of life that they have to understand is that probably thousands of people are applying for the same job. It is a real temptation to get the attitude that because they are only getting paid X number of dollars, that is all they are going to give. (i.e. when they pay me more, I'll do more). that might work if you are the only person that can do the job and they desperately need you, but when there are that many sitting in the wings waiting to take over for you, that attitude will destroy ones chances of progressing. It's the name of the game, it's industrial politics, it's showing that you are not only valuable in what you presently do, but show that you have the aptitude to do well in other things as well. One needs to get noticed.

I'm sure that George was a great dishwasher in his time, but he didn't get noticed because the plates were sparkling. He had to have done things that weren't expected, were positive and impressed someone. Then and only then you get an edge. You don't get a guarantee, but you do get a chance. A lot of it has to do with luck and standing, accidentally, in the right place at the right time. That is also luck, but without the first, the second means nothing.

 

[dhall]

If they're trying to do too much all at once, it's fairly common to use automated tools to do the analysis of the existing data structures. If several of the systems have (for example) a field called 'GuestID' that is an integer between 1 & 16billion something, it's fairly likely that at some point during the implementation, an automated tool interpreted these as equivalent. The integrators usually catch all these and flag them.

Also -- matching up guests from multiple systems is notoriously tricky: there are just too many people with common names and similar characteristics. In many deployments, the matching conditions start out too aggressive and have to be scaled back as problems are found, and its just too easy for the problem data to be omitted from the testing samples. For example, assume that the bulk of their testing is done with samples taken from 1% of the data from the first 10 systems (that's an order of magnitude or two more data than I test with everyday, compared to the production sizes we support). There's a lot of unusual cases that won't make it into the sample, so a lot of false positives that they couldn't possibly see.

I know that once I was unable to renew my driver's license in Florida because the DMV in Tennessee falsely matched me to another person based on having the same name and that I happened to have been born in the same county as the other person's ticket. I did have a driver's license in TN for a couple of years, but in another part of the state: the person with the ticket was 20 years younger and of a different race.

 

[Lee]

Cool - I looked at that link only because it was an early hit that showed the author pages. I see looking at the book cover my name is on it! But going through the book in Google Books, it's not in the book itself on the author pages - just some bulk copyright type of references. Maybe I should buy a copy and put it on my shelf at work so people think I'm published In all serious tho.. no that's not me and I've never heard of that book except for this thread. I do know of at least one other guy who shares my name who I've never established any actual relation to (and creepy enough.. he's local to me..) but no, that's not me.

Wow...same name, works in the same field, and from the same neck of the woods...
What are the odds...

 

[George]

Wow...same name, works in the same field, and from the same neck of the woods...
What are the odds...

1.89:1

 

[WDW1974]

Trying to get back from economics to NGE/MM+ ...

Here is what I know:

NGE/MM+ is a deeply troubled project. A project discussed at great length and in great detail here.

A regular poster on this site appeared to hound every criticism and dismiss concerns relating to said project. A project which will affect every visit/visitor to WDW.

No matter the substance or emotion or just plain good old-fashioned skepticism for this project that poster did not relent only tempering his pointed rebukes with a 'we just don't know' or we should all 'wait and see' retort on occasion.

At no point did this poster assert that he is an expert on network security and works in that sector. This, despite the fact that network 'security' was and is central to many of the concerns raised here.

Whereas others came in and offered some valuable and valued insight after asserting where their knowledge comes from (@Lil Fort immediately comes to mind and @dhall also rings a bell, but there were others), this poster just spoke from 'up high' about some technical aspects of what NGE/MM+ could deliver and the how and why of it.

No problem thus far. Except, again, every time someone questioned the project this same poster with no proffering of his background/interest with said technology came in to essentially shout-down that question. Not in a smack-you-upside-the-head way, but in a condescending 'you-don't-know-what-you-are-talking-about' way.

Now, it turns out this poster is an expert on computer/network security. He is employed by the lead company charged with implimenting the NGE/MM+ project for TWDC.

He admits he is an expert in this field.

He challenges the point that he has been paid to speak at various conferences as an expert on network security and related technology by parsing the wording. No, he says, he is not paid to speak. He speaks on these matters as part of his job. Difference? Well, I suppose, no, he does not have an agent who books lectures for him. Instead, it is incorporated with what it is he does for his employer.

Not sure of any real difference given the context here. Bottom-line, he gives lectures on the subject.

Lastly, his name is rather unique and -- he admits -- it is widely and easily located on the Internet by doing a simple Google search. Yet, rather than link himself to a book on datamining and network security with his name on the cover as generated by Google (the very place where he directed this community to go for remediation on exactly who he is), he linked us to an online bookstore that omits this mention.

When another poster drew his attention to this, he said he had never heard of the book -- on an area in which he has already identified himself as an expert -- and is not related to it or the man with his name on the cover. The other experts on the cover all are in the same field as this poster and this poster admits he knows of only one other individual in the United States who shares his name.

OK...shame on all of us for not running a background check on our fellow fans who we thought were here to share their love of and/or frustration with TWDC, but then we go do as you suggest and you go beyond actually challenging the Google search results to assert you have never heard or seen a book on Web security and other matters in your own field BUT you are in no way related to THAT GUY.

Fine. Many of our regular posters questioned why someone whose life was all over the Internet, including scary-crazy details of said persons 'private' life, and who worked in computer security would hijack such a discussion and fail to mention this as a foundation for all of that commentary. Many messages were exchanged over whether this person should be exposed.

I said, repeatedly, no. On a fan forum, of any kind, it should be the participant's decision to do such a thing if he or she is so inclined. Many fans on here were not happy with the fact I implored them to not name this poster. Privacy is sacrosanct. I would be a hypocrite otherwise.

I stand by that decision. As even in his biting retorts about how his life is 'four clicks away' for anyone with at least 'three brain cells', it was/is his decision.

Note that in his replies referencing his own work, his name, his blog ... all about 'him', he chose to not actually place that information here. Again, fine.

What is not fine is coming in and talking down to the posters here for respecting his own privacy and treating him as he wanted to be treated -- as just another Disney fan. Once more, unlike @Lil Fort and others, Flynnibus elected to not preface his extensive and unending drumbeat for NGE/MM+ with a brief introduction to his background and from what perspective he is viewing this troubled project.

When people engage me in a conversation, no matter their implied background (from likely high schoolers to top executives of major companies who all share an interest in TWDC), I make an effort to respond to them. Perhaps I should have been more selective over the years, but, to me, communicating with the community is an essential element of social media. Speaking with them, not merely to them (that's Disney's strategy).

I extend respect to those who do likewise and even some who probably missed that mark. But, make no mistake, I have been as honest as a person on any fan forum can possibly be.

If Flynn believes he has as well, I will simply disagree and allow him to continue his lectures. For me, to not assert your status as an expert on the topic at hand that you are virulently endorsing is not honest. It is profoundly disingenuous.

And, yeah, I stand by my observation that it appears Flynn is precisely as I described him. No, he has no pony in this race. He's the guy who juices the ponies before they ever leave the stable.

Enjoy the lecture. But remember why he is the professor and from where it is he speaks.

(Oh, as for the Klout reference, it was made because several fellow posters noted that Flynn linked his account here at wdwmagic.com with Klout Perks. I know very little of it, and give it no credibility in the real world. In fairness to Flynn, he may well have even forgotten he linked the accounts as I really do not think he is posting for a free Blu-ray of Disney's latest. ... Although, he does always need to get the last word ....)

 

[flynnibus]

Wow...same name, works in the same field, and from the same neck of the woods...
What are the odds...

Uhh - that's not my field. Go back to the other posts. Do you not think realize all product people have to be concious of security needs and industry issues?? And where do you get that that guy is from my area?

I said I know a guy with my name local to me.. But i doubt that is the guy on that book. Don't believe me? Since you liked my lmgtfy trick... Try whitepages.com too. See how many different people you can find with my name

 

[Clever Name]

Wow...same name, works in the same field, and from the same neck of the woods...
What are the odds...

Dissociative identity disorder?

 

[Cosmic Commando]

1.89:1

83% of all statistics are made up.

 

[unkadug]

83% of all statistics are made up.

73.6%

Get it right!

 

[flynnibus]

@WDW1974 after that post you owe me an apology or seriously you should be removed from this site.

You continue to spread lies about me when provided with precise information directly to the contrary.

Do you really not understand that video conferencing is not my magic or anything to do with that book you found? And again you distort what I said about speaking engagements too. Again, those were in MY industry - video. You do realize Cisco is in dozens of industries with virtually no cross pollination of those.

The book link I referenced was because it was my first hit in google for that book and it showed the author page. I didn't even click on the image of the book cover under lee pointed out another link with more info. I didn't check other sites because I was able to see the book directly on the first site.

Why not contact some of the authors of that book and see who they are talking about if you don't believe me.

I don't work in the security fields - I like all product development people are savvy in our dependent technologies.

That's why we are so overpaid...

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

Thanks Mr.Spirit for taking your time/effort to answer responses I have inquired to you. Yes, communicating with the WDWMAGIC community here is a essential element for this site and also your insight raises my Disney IQ.

 

[flynnibus]

And I've never used klout - it's an automatic harvesting thing. So seriously stop slandering people because you keep leaping to conclusions in the absence of facts.

 

[WDW1974]

@Jason_Garcia - plan on doing a story on the breaking data breach going on at WDW?

My advice if you think Jason should pursue a story -- and I certainly do -- would be to email and/or call him.

While he's a member here, I have no clue how often he actually logs in or how much he reads.

 

[lazyboy97o]

He admits he is an expert in this field.

Either your ignorance regarding technology really knows no bounds or your confirmation bias is in serious overdrive.

 

[WDW1974]

@WDW1974 after that post you owe me an apology or seriously you should be removed from this site.

You continue to spread lies about me when provided with precise information directly to the contrary.

Do you really not understand that video conferencing is not my magic or anything to do with that book you found? And again you distort what I said about speaking engagements too. Again, those were in MY industry - video. You do realize Cisco is in dozens of industries with virtually no cross pollination of those.

The book link I referenced was because it was my first hit in google for that book and it showed the author page. I didn't even click on the image of the book cover under lee pointed out another link with more info. I didn't check other sites because I was able to see the book directly on the first site.

Why not contact some of the authors of that book and see who they are talking about if you don't believe me.

I don't work in the security fields - I like all product development people are savvy in our dependent technologies.

That's why we are so overpaid...

Seriously, dude, you need to Google yourself and delete all the old or sensitive stuff out there.

That's friendly professional advice. Now, I have no intention of speaking with or dealing with you if at all possible.

The Internet and technology are your friends, right?