Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[tracyandalex]

Hey, anyone here know how many great, brilliant young college kids are working at WDW for $7.80 an hour who will NEVER have a chance to even be a mid-level exec no matter how hard they work?

Since I am very close to one of these folks I am going to chime in here. I don't want to say she will never make it that high because I must always hope for her, but I will say that baring some drastic change any frontline CM becoming a mid-level exec is very highly unlikely. The person I am referring to has a college degree and a ton of student loans. Her parents were told they made too much money to qualify for most financial aid, but they lived paycheck to paycheck and did not have money to save for college for their children. They both worked very hard and still do, but can barely afford their house these days. They do not have a large house (3 bedrooms 1.5 baths), but their state and town got hit hard with the financial crisis. They live in the NE and the cost of living is very high there. Relatives are helping this woman pay her student loans that she had to take of she wanted to go to college. She did go to an out of state school, but because of the high costs of everything in the NE the out of state tuition in the south was the same as the in state tuition in the north. She had a plan for after graduation, but because she could not find a job she had to move back in with her parents. She applied for a job with WDW because she loves the place.

She now makes $7.80ish per hour at the MK and while that is technically over minimum wage I can tell you that it is barely a living wage and she is single. She often extends her hours as much as she can so that she has enough money to pay her rent and utilities. Though she won't admit it I know she sometimes barely eats. When I see TWDC making record profits and think of how this person and other CMs beg for raises and how poorly they are treated it saddens me deeply. There are huge disparities within the company and that goes against the values the company was built upon. NGE does have me worried for her as I am sure there will be further cuts to labor when it is rolled out completely. Every year execs get paid more and more and CMs have to fight for a $0.10 per hour increase that they often don't get. I get that TWDC is not a non-profit and I am fine with them making a profit, even a huge one, but money isn't everything. See Jacob Marley. Happier CMs make for happier guests

I do believe that you can improve your situation. While we are not 1%ers we are doing better than our parents and we hope our daughter does better than us. We both work all day every day as state workers here in the sunshine state where we are very unlikely to get a raise in the next few years no matter how hard we work. DH could make twice as much $$ in the private sector for what he does, but in these uncertain times we have opted for job security over more $$ (like I said $$ isn't everything). While one does need to work hard, there also has to be an opening for you to improve yourself and in lots of situations that is just not the case

 

[Clever Name]

EDIT: Edited 'cause I don't want to expose anyone's real name that may not want it out there.

Anyone with three brain cells came upon that information a long time ago.

 

[Figments Friend]

-

This thread needs more 'Baxter' in it.....

Allow me...

Indiana Jones and Tony share something in common...they hang out with cool people!

How many uppers at Disney would do this...dress as a 'lowly' CM for a special event..?
Tony dressed for the final flight of Star Tours at DL.
He looks great !

From waaaay back...
Tony and a friend help install the 20,000 Leagues attraction at WDW.
Dang he was so young then...

 

[George]

Anyone with three brain cells came upon that information a long time ago.

Well, you also have to give a s**t.

 

[Cody5242]

Don't the CP kids get a head start over the regular CM to become mid level executives?

 

[flynnibus]

The last thing I'd ever want to do is get in the middle of this whole mess, but...
That link you posted differs from others.

Cool - I looked at that link only because it was an early hit that showed the author pages. I see looking at the book cover my name is on it! But going through the book in Google Books, it's not in the book itself on the author pages - just some bulk copyright type of references. Maybe I should buy a copy and put it on my shelf at work so people think I'm published In all serious tho.. no that's not me and I've never heard of that book except for this thread. I do know of at least one other guy who shares my name who I've never established any actual relation to (and creepy enough.. he's local to me..) but no, that's not me.

Ok...I don't know how you did that...but it's pretty damn cool.

You like-ah the juice? It's a fun little toy.. but usually too nasty to use for most links. But when someone attacks me, I feel less inclined to use the kid gloves

 

[tracyandalex]

Don't the CP kids get a head start over the regular CM to become mid level executives?

Yes they do.

 

[flynnibus]

Don't the CP kids get a head start over the regular CM to become mid level executives?

There are professional interships available.. that often people do the CP program to get their foot in the Disney door (vs just any college kids) to try to get those internships. I think that is what you are referring to.

http://profinterns.disneycareers.com/en/default/

 

[Clever Name]

Well, you also have to give a s**t.

Not really. There are several programs that automatically scan and sift through the content of webpages in the background as you surf the net. At the end of surfing (or at any other time you desire) you can pull up the results. Lots of interesting correlations show up. Modern home computers with fast net connections are very powerful.

 

[George]

Not really. There are several programs that automatically scan and sift through the content of webpages in the background as you surf the net. At the end of surfing (or at any other time you desire) you can pull up the results. Lots of interesting correlations show up. Modern home computers with fast net connections are very powerful.

I still maintain you have to have a certain level of interest. Sometimes, I'm too lazy to even do a google search. It may have to do with the fact I'm at work now, and over half of my work involves computer computations, so I rebel against that in my free time. Of course, I do find stray streams of professional soccer games that involve Americans all over the world, so I guess I do give a crap about that.

 

[Clever Name]

I still maintain you have to have a certain level of interest.

Yes, I agree. My interest in the information relates to time management. There are some members on this forum that are questionable. I ignore their posts (for the most part) because I can see from their history that they have certain issues. Beyond being a time saver, it helps me to avoid the overly passionate fans that want to impress the world with their intimate knowledge of all things Disney. The subject of this post fell into the later category.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Since I am very close to one of these folks I am going to chime in here. I don't want to say she will never make it that high because I must always hope for her, but I will say that baring some drastic change any frontline CM becoming a mid-level exec is very highly unlikely. The person I am referring to has a college degree and a ton of student loans. Her parents were told they made too much money to qualify for most financial aid, but they lived paycheck to paycheck and did not have money to save for college for their children. They both worked very hard and still do, but can barely afford their house these days. They do not have a large house (3 bedrooms 1.5 baths), but their state and town got hit hard with the financial crisis. They live in the NE and the cost of living is very high there. Relatives are helping this woman pay her student loans that she had to take of she wanted to go to college. She did go to an out of state school, but because of the high costs of everything in the NE the out of state tuition in the south was the same as the in state tuition in the north. She had a plan for after graduation, but because she could not find a job she had to move back in with her parents. She applied for a job with WDW because she loves the place.

She now makes $7.80ish per hour at the MK and while that is technically over minimum wage I can tell you that it is barely a living wage and she is single. She often extends her hours as much as she can so that she has enough money to pay her rent and utilities. Though she won't admit it I know she sometimes barely eats. When I see TWDC making record profits and think of how this person and other CMs beg for raises and how poorly they are treated it saddens me deeply. There are huge disparities within the company and that goes against the values the company was built upon. NGE does have me worried for her as I am sure there will be further cuts to labor when it is rolled out completely. Every year execs get paid more and more and CMs have to fight for a $0.10 per hour increase that they often don't get. I get that TWDC is not a non-profit and I am fine with them making a profit, even a huge one, but money isn't everything. See Jacob Marley. Happier CMs make for happier guests

I do believe that you can improve your situation. While we are not 1%ers we are doing better than our parents and we hope our daughter does better than us. We both work all day every day as state workers here in the sunshine state where we are very unlikely to get a raise in the next few years no matter how hard we work. DH could make twice as much $$ in the private sector for what he does, but in these uncertain times we have opted for job security over more $$ (like I said $$ isn't everything). While one does need to work hard, there also has to be an opening for you to improve yourself and in lots of situations that is just not the case

I have to agree that the pay for execs is way, way out of line with CM's, the fact of the matter remains that her job is a job that pays 7.80ish an hour. It was never intended to be anything but that and I'm positive nothing was ever promised otherwise. She, in your words, applied for the job because she loves the place. OK, but that doesn't mean that now it's Disney's fault that she has a big old pile of debt for an education that she isn't using. What is her actual career field? Is she actively, and I mean actively, looking for something that would better fit her education level or is she doing like so many others and accepting a job that will not work for her and then expecting her employer to adjust things to help her particular problem.

If she is looking for a field in oceanography, for example, is the fact that she has a gig as a CM at Disney going to impress anyone hiring a oceanographer, even if they worked the Jungle Cruise? If you are going to get into a field then get into the one that you want and work the lower level there if while your are looking nothing is open for a higher spot. The trend over the last 20 years is that everyone wants to start at the top or very close to it. I cannot tell you how many people I hired over the last few years for a job that had evening and weekend hours and they agreed that it was not problem at all. Yet, in spite of it being brought up at least a dozen times and agreed to an equal amount, was an almost instant source of upset to the employee when within a few weeks would ask to be put on a day shift because..."this just wasn't working out". Sorry, I was looking to fill a second shift spot, why did you take it when you knew it wasn't really what you wanted. You wasted my time and yours. Having a degree in hand does not do anymore then open a door for consideration. You are competing against a good number of people and someone with just a days more experience in your chosen field, they will get it and you will be flipping burgers at MickyD's a while longer. You might have gotten a job at that company that was in your career scope, maybe in the mailroom even and at least had access to the business.

Disney pays what it pays, and that's it. If no one applied or accepted a job from them then they would have to pay more, but people say, well it is an income regardless of how small. And that is true. However, if they stop right there and don't continue to plug away in an effort to find something different, the chances are they will still be there telling there Grandchildren to have a magical day, when they visit the parks. If they are sitting there waiting to be "discovered" the same thing applies. High paying jobs have specific requirements and it is doubtful that selling giant turkey legs is on the list anywhere.

 

[tracyandalex]

I have to agree that the pay for execs is way, way out of line with CM's, the fact of the matter remains that her job is a job that pays 7.80ish an hour. It was never intended to be anything but that and I'm positive nothing was ever promised otherwise. She, in your words, applied for the job because she loves the place. OK, but that doesn't mean that now it's Disney's fault that she has a big old pile of debt for an education that she isn't using. What is her actual career field? Is she actively, and I mean actively, looking for something that would better fit her education level or is she doing like so many others and accepting a job that will not work for her and then expecting her employer to adjust things to help her particular problem.

Obviously ride operator is not what her degree is in, but yes she can use her degree within the company. She took the job because she likes WDW and as a foot in the door at TWDC. From what she has said moving around within the company (at least at WDW) is quite challenging. She knew what she signed up for and actually does not complain about it very much at all. She is actively working on things to get her to her "dream" job.

My point was to illustrate that what the CMs are paid is not really a living wage and a company with an image and supposed values such as Disney should be treating it's employees better and that there is a huge disparity in wages among the different employee levels. I agree that one can't just sit back and wait for things to happen.

 

[HMF]

One quick note before I sign off and await all the fun Tuesday will bring here (hopefully the new toilets will open and people will focus on them!) ... but someone contacted me a few hours ago and told me that she had had an experince with MM+ showing someone else's ressie when she tried to check hers. She called Disney.

Spoke to a woman in IT and was told to reload her user name and password and VIOLA!!! ... she got another totally different family's information. The person at IT was watching a mirror screen and couldn't explain the situation ... she also admitted that if this person could see and modify a stranger's reservation (wouldn't it be fun to cancel a stranger's ressie and ruin a family vacation?!!) that the same likewise could be done to her.

Disney had no answers, so they simply froze her account and paid her off with a Disney Gift Card. I am going to try and find out how much your personal information is valued by WDW tomorrow.

Man, NGE really is having a lackluster roll out. It's like watching the Titanic sink.

 

[michmousefan]

One quick note before I sign off and await all the fun Tuesday will bring here (hopefully the new toilets will open and people will focus on them!) ... but someone contacted me a few hours ago and told me that she had had an experince with MM+ showing someone else's ressie when she tried to check hers. She called Disney.

Spoke to a woman in IT and was told to reload her user name and password and VIOLA!!! ... she got another totally different family's information. The person at IT was watching a mirror screen and couldn't explain the situation ... she also admitted that if this person could see and modify a stranger's reservation (wouldn't it be fun to cancel a stranger's ressie and ruin a family vacation?!!) that the same likewise could be done to her.

Disney had no answers, so they simply froze her account and paid her off with a Disney Gift Card. I am going to try and find out how much your personal information is valued by WDW tomorrow.

Man, there's not enough cash in Scrooge McDuck's vast 401K to begin paying off everyone -- even if it's a paltry $100 or 200 or so -- once this NGE kicks into full gear. And kick it in I'm sure the folks at TDO will try to do, forget the fact that some of the gears are iron and some are glass, and *nobody* has a clue as how to they mesh together. My only hope is that they try to push something that is impossibly poorly designed, isn't ready and the whole thing blows up in their faces, leaving us with a magic band that opens a hotel door and admits you through a turnstile. I have zero confidence that they can accomplish much beyond that.

 

[ScoutN]

There are professional interships available.. that often people do the CP program to get their foot in the Disney door (vs just any college kids) to try to get those internships. I think that is what you are referring to.

http://profinterns.disneycareers.com/en/default/

Really? Because most that work there in the fields I have CLOSE friends looking to grow in say DON'T do a CP, it only hurts your progress in the company.

 

[WDWFanDave]

Here's my theory.. since WDW1974's relayed incident showed the same user being bounced between DIFFERENT users... this issue may actually be in the website and not the backend. Just a mixed up reference to the database would at least act consistent.. this could be something like the session handling in the website is broke, giving out the wrong tokens/cookies and user 1 who logged in could be getting a session handler from user 2 who was just on the site recently. Then that user looks authenticated as user 2.. and when the db info is queried, user 2 comes up, etc. Just a thought... the idea that one user is pulling up different accounts is a key piece of info in debugging it. Might be something like data getting truncated, race conditions, etc.

But I agree - once they've seen its not PICNIC - they should be in triage mode and stop the bleeding by halting the system or taking offline all together to debug it and find the root cause.

Flynn-let me start by asking to excuse my ignorance here...I'm lightly technologically literate, but things have changed so quickly and so rapidly, I'm going to ask what might be a stupid question...

Does the 'My Disney Experience' app likely run through the website, or through some other connection to the system? I ask because it seems as though the problems have been there as well.

Also...is it likely that perhaps the biggest problem with all of this is that they've designed a 'new' system and without much testing just tried to overlay it onto the old system(s)? I'm just trying to get more of a simplistic understanding of all of this.

Again-apologize if the questions are, well, less than exciting, but I appreciate the expertise you seem to have here, and thought you'd be willing to chime in.

Thanks!

 

[flynnibus]

Really? Because most that work there in the fields I have CLOSE friends looking to grow in say DON'T do a CP, it only hurts your progress in the company.

Dunno - that's the only association I've heard before.. people trying to be an employee first. I've never heard of preferential treatment for the CPs - so thats why I think the person may have crossed those ideas. But I would think doing a CP would be easier than doing just a regular CM because you won't have the same transfer and quitting constraints that a regular CM has. Your CP is a fixed time, after which you are free..

 

[lazyboy97o]

I too have never heard very positive things about going through the College Program. Disney likes to go around telling students it is an internship, making it sound like much more than what is actually involved.

 

[flynnibus]

Flynn-let me start by asking to excuse my ignorance here...I'm lightly technologically literate, but things have changed so quickly and so rapidly, I'm going to ask what might be a stupid question...

Does the 'My Disney Experience' app likely run through the website, or through some other connection to the system? I ask because it seems as though the problems have been there as well.

Such applications typically use web connections to talk to the provider - but its done differently than a user-facing webpage. A user webpage carries html markup text and images to render what you see. Apps like this typically have local content, and exchange data in markup languages like XML over http to exchange data and images. So similar transport - but different data and handling once it gets there. Its very common to feed machine to machine data over HTTPS (secure web) connections so the data goes through a web server, but would be handled by different code once it got there compared to user facing pages.

I haven't heard of crossing user profiles on the mobile app - only people's early problems with keeping the app logged in, or logging in at all.

I think problems with missing ADRs, reservations, etc are a different problem (which I think we've heard from both the web and mobile app). I think these problems are more like data consistency/handling problems.. where the crossing user issues are likely application (web app) problems. Just speculating based on what limited info we do know.. but the irony is, if my theories are right, solving the crossing user issue should be much more a direct fix, than the missing data problems are.

Also...is it likely that perhaps the biggest problem with all of this is that they've designed a 'new' system and without much testing just tried to overlay it onto the old system(s)? I'm just trying to get more of a simplistic understanding of all of this.

It's likely... in my experience these types of failures are common when people who aren't familiar with the existing tools are tasked with replacing them. If the previous stuff isn't documented perfectly, or is full of hacks, its very difficult for the 'new guys' to get it right. You try to mitigate that by testing as much as possible. But there are ways you can screw this up. Like.. testing with only simulated data vs using real world data. The simulated data will conform to the rules you expect the target system to have.. but if your expectations were wrong from the start.. when you goto the real world system.. you'll find scenarios you did not expect. Or if you simply didn't test with 'enough' data.. you may not have encountered those oddball cases.

But this user crossing problem sounds much more like application issues.. but it could be anything. The webserver side.. the production deployment setup.. etc. There are lots of ways things find a way to fail Without real specifics its all just kind of 'where are the common failures' kind of discussion at this point.

Different companies have different ways they mitigate these risks.. some companies just roll out.. some test in a staged environment.. some mimic their entire production environment and test.. even when you do the latter, there can be gotchas. But mimicking the entire production environment gets extremely expensive and difficult as you grow. Companies that are extremely paranoid about changes (like Telephone companies, utilities, etc) go to GREAT lengths to handle even the most minor changes in hardware or software.

Again-apologize if the questions are, well, less than exciting, but I appreciate the expertise you seem to have here, and thought you'd be willing to chime in.

No worries at all. I wish we knew more.. but these kinds of things typically only those directly involved in know the true details... the story that gets distributed outside the actual implementation groups are usually much more high level.. but if we are lucky, someone will leak/share what failure lead to the problem. AKA, bad design, bad implementation, unexpected combinations, etc.

I'm bothered if the problem hasn't been resolved yet and if we get reports still of new issues with the user logins.