In the interest of not clogging up this thread, I only quoted this last tid-bit. Hope that's ok.
No. You can do whatever you please, but I'd rather it not become a thread about the fallacy of the American Dream in the 21st century.
I don't know when flipping burgers at McD's became frowned upon in this society. My grandfather did it as a teenager to make money to save for a business idea he had, which he grew to become successful, handed over to may father and made it even more successful, and now he is slowly exiting and I am trying to keep the ball rolling.
Really. I enjoy dining on those burgers occassionally. No, it shouldn't be frowned upon. But if you want to take the FOX News/CNBC argument then I'll gladly take the MSNBC one. Your grandfather flipped burgers in another lifetime. Not today. Not with today's reality. There's nothing wrong with a job there for a high school kid or even college kid or retiree. But an educated person with skills and a college education should not be working at McD's flipping burgers. ... I'd also note that you are not a self-made businessman here if you are the third generation of a family business. You are simply taking the work your Grandfather and Dad did and trying to build on it.
Again, nothing wrong with that. It's great. It's also not a Horatio Alger tale. It's more one of generational wealth.
Most entrepreneurs that started with little and became fabulously wealthy have stated that if they were born a decade or two later they would not have been able to accomplish what they did.
(I am talking specifically about Steve Jobs and Bill Gates among others, not exactly the old generation)
America changed fundamentally ... some of us see that and some of us still are clinging to a 1950s version.
Regarding student loans, I say that is the fault of the student, and part of the problem of the "I deserve it" crowd. I deserve to go to that Ivy League school, or prestigious out of state school. There are few instances when taking out 200k in student loans is prudent. MBA from Harvard? Maybe, but probably not. Art History degree from Yale? Absolutely not, what are you going to do with that? When did going to an in-state school, or God forbid, junior/community college become like a four letter word? What's wrong with a Business Administration from a state school down in your neck of the woods? Absolutely nothing. (Although it's not as good as being a Gator Grad
) And when did working in college become burdensome? Too many kids today have no work ethic, and want things handed to them on a plate. My parents could have sent me anywhere I wanted to go. They didn't. I was told to pick a school that I could get a degree from while working simultaneously to pay for it. At the time I hated it, it was hard. But now I thank them for it. I learned a lot in those 4 years. I learned how to manage time, money, social life, and I learned how to win. I plan on doing the same thing with my kids. People think flipping burgers is below them because they keep reading everywhere how it should be below them.
Sounds to me like a bashfest on today's grads. Very misplaced. But sure, it's easier to blame a kid who went to school, worked his/her off, did great, got out of school with a degree and was told ... you can temp 15 hours a week for $10 an hour or work at McD's or maybe even Starbucks if you're lucky. ... Before you start (you already have though) down the path that some people get the wrong degrees (what would we do if everyone got an MBA? Those are 'supposed' to be so valuable ... if it were 1952.) let me give you a quick view of what happened in my very affluent masterplanned community. A high tech company moved in and in just a few years, using highly educated locals, the company grew exponentially and took up almost all commercial property. Its market cap went from a few million to BILLIONS. It was a Wall Street darling and the pride of our town.
So what did the company (again, cutting edge, high tech, perfect 21st century business) do? The company went to SE Asia with piles of special visas and brought chartered jetloads of folks from India and dropped them down in this town that was a symbol for traditional American values ... and what can be achieved through hard work. Said company told its local employees (this would be basically EVERYONE except for the top executives/owners) they could either leave the company with no references and no compensation packages or they would be allowed to stay on for six weeks during which they would train their (much lower paid) Indian replacements. If they accepted the latter, the company would not fight their unemployment claim and give them a positive reference. I suppose your response to that would be they should all just go out and start their own companies or maybe flip some burgers to support their families.
The reality is that many of my upper middle class neighbors lost their homes and had lives ruined and families ripped apart.
That's the reality of today's America for many, many. Just because you are blind to it or blessed by family circumstances doesn't change others' reality. But I guess ing on their legs and telling them it's liquid gold may make you feel better.
Hey, anyone here know how many great, brilliant young college kids are working at WDW for $7.80 an hour who will NEVER have a chance to even be a mid-level exec no matter how hard they work?
Regarding insurance, you are right. Something has to be done about the skyrocketing cost of healthcare in this country. I don't know when having the government take money away from you and giving it to someone else became compassion? But my question is this: why stop there? Why not take cars from people who have them and give them to others? Or what about your home? I'm sure you don't NEED a home that big, filled with spirited furniture. And further, why do people always find it so easy to be self-righteous with other peoples money? I know it's an overly simplistic point, but I never hear about any pro-healthcare types talking about all that discretionary income they donated to the cause. You just don't hear it. "Take it from him, not me," they say.
Matt, with all due respect, we are so far apart on the spectrum here that I honestly think it's a waste of time. You believe in what you do like it's the gospel sent on down. I believe in reality. Not simply mine, but what I see and as unbiased as I can be. Really ... who is taking your money and handing to some worthless, lazy person who just won't pay for insurance? Parents still have to beg for money for children who need transplants and you wanna go down this road because the Man is taking your money and giving it to those lazy neighbors you don't even like.
I really should have read your full post before responding because it's not in my interest to waste my time.
As to giving, myself and my extended family have given more money to charity than you can possibly imagine. But charity isn't selfless either. There were plenty of great tax advantages to giving that money away (and the names on buildings helps too!)
You think 250k should bear most of the burden? They do. The top 5% pay over half of all taxes paid in this country. How much is enough? We keep hearing "fair share" in this country. What about those stats are "fair?" Again, it's easy to be self-righteous with other people's money.
I absolutely agree with you that a great society must take care of its own people. But I've never seen where a great government has adequately done the job. The fools who should be taking care of this cannot even pass a budget...their one constitutional duty. And we want to leave taking care of others to them? If government was so good at taking care of their own, wouldn't we be in much better shape by now?
I'd just give your grandfather a big hug and thank him for putting you on a perch where you can sit and pass judgment on those less fortunate. I have been blessed in countless ways, but I NEVER forget people below me on the socio-economic level. I don't look through homeless people like they don't exist and watch my neighbors lose their homes and say 'they got that coming, did you see all the new TVs they got for Christmas three years ago!'
I'm sorry, Matt, but having discussions like this are, frankly, just bad for my health. Congrats on your good fortune and I hope it continues ... and I also hope you learn a little compassion for the people you so easily dismiss as lazy leeches.
I'm done on this discussion, so feel free to have the last word.
