Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[John]

I have more faith in people than that.

not me.... there was a time when the American worker was proud of what they did. Work hard to provide for their family. A work ethic. The new work ethic is ....what is the least amount of work I can do for the most amount of money....in fact....how can I get free money. Flam...scam and sham is the new American way. How can I get in your pocket. Maybe with fancy bracelets...

 

[Tim_4]

not me.... there was a time when the American worker was proud of what they did. Work hard to provide for their family. A work ethic. The new work ethic is ....what is the least amount of work I can do for the most amount of money....in fact....how can I get free money. Flam...scam and sham is the new American way. How can I get in your pocket. Maybe with fancy bracelets...

I'll meet you half way. I'm anti-union but pro-bracelet.

I guess that makes me the most evil guy here, huh?

 

[John]

I'll meet you half way. I'm anti-union but pro-bracelet.

I guess that makes me the most evil guy here, huh?

At least half evil....plus I think as long as jt is around your status is safe. But if he ever disappears I would watch myself if I were you.

 

[Tim_4]

At least half evil....plus I think as long as jt is around your status is safe. But if he ever disappears I would watch myself if I were you.

Hear that @jt04? You're now officially responsible for keeping me from being the most hated WDWMagic member. :-D

 

[MattM]

I like how you actually figure out a way to simplify the current economic climate to "Unions = Bad No Unions = Good" which is so absurd my head actually hurts.

If you've read all the posts preceding that one, you'd know he was not, in fact, simplifying current economic climate to unions.

 

[MattM]

"So I can say with definite assurance that non cooperative organized labor forces can be detrimental to the company."

So can corporations who are given free range to do whatever they want. You know, taking away the morality aspect of working people at slave wages in third world countries, and forgetting how unpatriotic it is to give the finger to the very country that gave you your opportunity to build your business, not to mention your company's continued steady economic growth directly beacuse of this country and it's people, no one who disses the unions has ever given a reason for their not to be a union. Not in one hundred years. There's a real reason there are unions, and the corporate mindset, behavior in recent years, hasn't actually shown that they can be trusted without unions.

Oh, I can think of plenty of reasons to be anti-union. The significant costs they add to a product would certainly be the biggest, but closely followed by the fact that they are just an arm of a certain political party. What I've never understood about union folk is, if you felt so strongly that you were not being treated properly at a certain company, why in the world would you stay there?

 

[Tim_4]

Oh, I can think of plenty of reasons to be anti-union. The significant costs they add to a product would certainly be the biggest, but closely followed by the fact that they are just an arm of a certain political party. What I've never understood about union folk is, if you felt so strongly that you were not being treated properly at a certain company, why in the world would you stay there?

The unions help people here protect the entitlement mentality that also manifests itself in their irrational expectations of TWDC.

 

[CDavid]

if you felt so strongly that you were not being treated properly at a certain company, why in the world would you stay there?

There has to be a better alternative, and sometimes there isn't. If one company offers low pay, poor working conditions, or some other disadvantage then chances are other comparable employers offer also offer similarly poor pay and work environments.

That's not to say I'm pro-union, because I'm not, but I do think there are far too many examples of employees who are not treated properly by their respective employers.

 

[Tim_4]

There has to be a better alternative, and sometimes there isn't. If one company offers low pay, poor working conditions, or some other disadvantage then chances are other comparable employers offer also offer similarly poor pay and work environments.

If that's the case, then an enterprising Company B will offer better conditions and suddenly get all the best workers. Company A, realizing they're getting slammed in the marketplace because Company B has all the best workers, realizes the error of their ways and one-ups B's fancy new compensation package. Competition for goods benefits the consumer, and competition for labor benefits the employee.

 

[CDavid]

The unions help people here protect the entitlement mentality that also manifests itself in their irrational expectations of TWDC.

What you call "irrational expectations of TWDC" I would instead call expecting the Walt Disney Company to adhere to its own established standards.

 

[nytimez]

Can this thread ever recover? Place your bets now...

 

[stlphil]

The unions help people here protect the entitlement mentality that also manifests itself in their irrational expectations of TWDC.

Speaking only for myself, my expectations of TWDC aren't based on my political beliefs, my opinion on unions, or my feelings on the entitlement culture (which I think will ultimately be the ruin of us all). No, my expectations are based on how I was treated in the past by my dealings with TWDC itself, how it used to be. TWDC can only blame itself for my expectations.

 

[John]

What you call "irrational expectations of TWDC" I would instead call expecting the Walt Disney Company to adhere to its own established standards.

quoted for truth.... its the essence of the so called doom and gloomers argument. The difference between Uni and what WDW WAS. If WDW never added a single attraction in the last fifteen years but held to THIER standards of service, maintence etc. I wouldn't mind paying todays prices. I would still consider it a bargain. Now I feel we are paying more for less. Tim be honest when was your first visit? I bet you are 20 something....right?

 

[misterID]

Oh, I can think of plenty of reasons to be anti-union. The significant costs they add to a product would certainly be the biggest, but closely followed by the fact that they are just an arm of a certain political party. What I've never understood about union folk is, if you felt so strongly that you were not being treated properly at a certain company, why in the world would you stay there?

Most likely because they live in this world called reality, and that place has an economic climate that was destroyed back in the early 2000's by a certain political party, and continues today, by that same political party who are the equivalent of spoiled children... (Actually, over 90% of them are attorney's who've never owned a business in their life acting like free market experts, you know, like certain people in this thread.)

To answer your question, because pensions are involved, and an uncertain job market, and thirdly, because they aren't going to let the monsters step on them. And, again, there's a reason why they exist, because American workers have had a long history of being abused, much like the outsourced workers are today. A sweat shop in India is the picture those mean old horrible unions want to try to prevent. Ridiculous!

Unions can be improved, and need to be, but they won't be by a bunch of free market, 1% wannabes and pretenders.

But it is cute seeing all the "expertise" on this board and free market supporters basically saying growth and growing your product is a useless prospect and won't work when it was the very thing that a certain mustached man did almost a century ago, and who these same people worship. It's cute, please, continue...

FYI, Tim... Calling America an "entitlement mentality"... Yeah, the rest of the civilized world who have REAL entitlements just laughed at you.

 

[Tim_4]

Tim be honest when was your first visit? I bet you are 20 something....right?

FYI, Tim... Calling American an "entitlement mentality"... Yeah, the rest of the civilized world who have REAL entitlements just laughed at you.

Do me a favor and tag @Tim_4 if you're going to insult me so I get a notification and don't have to sift through pages of nonsense.

 

[misterID]

Do me a favor and tag @Tim_4 if you're going to insult me so I get a notification and don't have to sift through pages of nonsense.

That was an insult? And aren't you insulting all of America with that post?

Seriously, you need thicker skin.

I'm sorry if I interrupted your nightly reading of The Fountainhead, and all those poor persecuted rich guys who never get anything going there way and have control over nothing!

 

[Tim_4]

But it is cute seeing all the "expertise" on this board and free market supporters basically saying growth and growing your product is a useless and won't work when it was the very thing that a certain mustached man did almost a century ago, and who those people worship. It's cute, please, continue...

See, that's the problem with you people. You don't detect nuance. If revenue, net income, room nights, or attendance were down at WDW, I'd be ALL FOR the rapid expansion that y'all are asking for. The fact is, those metrics are all growing. It's completely absurd to spend ridiculous sums of money to raise revenue when your revenue is rising basically for free. Universal is spending money to make money. Makes sense. Makes MORE sense if you can *not* spend money and *still* make money. If you want change, get your buddies together and stop going to WDW. "I have," you say. Well you're one of the only ones, because the money continues to flow.

Since you decided to go "what would Walt do?" on me, let's hear from the man himself.



Note that when he says "liberalism" he's referring to the classical liberalism of Adam Smith, John Locke, and F.A. Hayek as understood in 1947, not the modern statist policies that we call "liberalism" today.

 

[John]

OK @Tim_4 it wasn't an insult. Want to know where your point of reference comes from. You also didn't answer the question....not that you really have to. But it would give your argument background and I would be able to understand you better. Understand what perspective you are coming from. Does it matter? To me it does. Should you care if it does? I guess not.

 

[misterID]

See, that's the problem with you people. You don't detect nuance. If revenue, net income, room nights, or attendance were down at WDW, I'd be ALL FOR the rapid expansion that y'all are asking for. The fact is, those metrics are all growing. It's completely absurd to spend ridiculous sums of money to raise revenue when your revenue is rising basically for free. Universal is spending money to make money. Makes sense. Makes MORE sense if you can *not* spend money and *still* make money. If you want change, get your buddies together and stop going to WDW. "I have," you say. Well you're one of the only ones, because the money continues to flow.

Since you decided to go "what would Walt do?" on me, let's hear from the man himself.



Note that when he says "liberalism" he's referring to the classical liberalism of Adam Smith, John Locke, and F.A. Hayek as understood in 1947, not the modern statist policies that we call "liberalism" today.

It's not raising revenue for free, dude, it's manipulated, like firing employees, cutting corners, costs, raising prices, like most things your heros do to inflate numbers. They are still spending money. It's not free, it's not progress and there's always a downside, because you can only do it so often.

What would Walt do? Probably what Universal is doing... Strengthening and making their product better. By going BIG not staying home. That's probably what he'd do. Oh, and fire Iger.

 

[Tim_4]

OK @Tim_4 it wasn't an insult. Want to know where your point of reference comes from. You also didn't answer the question....not that you really have to. But it would give your argument background and I would be able to understand you better. Understand what perspective you are coming from. Does it matter? To me it does. Should you care if it does? I guess not.

Don't worry you didn't hurt my feelings lol.