Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[RSoxNo1]

So is google. Some companies have a deal that if you type in a name and their company name, it will show up in the first X number of suggestions (and not in the paid sponsor section.)

Pretty much everything is for sale if you have the cash to buy it.

Like the first spot on a google search for "driving directions". At last check this still came up as Map Quest

 

[luv]

Like the first spot on a google search for "driving directions". At last check this still came up as Map Quest

I don't know anything about that and wasn't referring to it any way.

 

[flynnibus]

Now, on to the controversy!

Even outside of the shutdown which unfortunatly you were there for (I would have been in City hall for that.. that was just over the top) - DLR has a track record of way more ride shutdowns then what you may be used to at WDW. But they aren't the 'ride is down for rest of week' stuff... and not always even 'down for rest of the day'. I don't know if anyone has fully articulated why.. but you will be evac'd off rides at DLR way more common then in WDW. Ride restarts and stops seem way more prevailent there.

WoC - yeah, the viewing is challenging. F! not as much as its easier to get front row without compromise of getting wet. I always line up on the Frontierland side after fireworks and each time I've done that.. I've been up front.

 

[Longhairbear]

Thanks for correcting me, I think I'm wrong. The following is from the annual report:

So they include only "rentals of Disney Vacation Club units". A DVC memeber staying on points is not renting. But that makes me wonder: do they include all DVC rooms available for rental or only rooms actually rented?

DVC rents my room for cash to pay for where ever else I am using my points. If I am using points at a Disney hotel, is that considered an average daily room rate? I guess I am asking if my staying on points elsewhere at a hotel is not counted, or counted twice because they rented my room, to pay for my hotel? In addition, if DVC were unable to rent my room, and I got a hotel in DLR, have I added an empty room to the inventory, and the equations?

 

[Longhairbear]

Alright, we got back last week from our first ever trip to DLR and I figured I'd post a (not-so) quick impressions post here, even if @WDW1974 isn't here to read it. I have 2 items that (I think) I'm going to disagree with Spirit on, although one probably isn't fair.

Quick summary, we were at the parks April 18-21, with a visit to Downtown Disney on the 17th. We did not stay onsite - too pricy. Stayed at the HoJos across the street, which was nice enough. Overall, we really enjoyed our time there, but there are several plusses and minuses when compared to WDW. I think, as a family, we enjoy the "feel" of WDW more, but there are certain things that will probably bring us back to Anaheim from Maine again in the future.

Now, on to the controversy!

Item 1 - Maintenance
We visited during the heart of the DOSH shutdown affair, so this probably isn't fair, but Disney does have some culpability here. I was tracking things ahead of time and was aware of the closures of Space Mountain and Soarin' before we arrived. BTM was a scheduled refurb, so no surprise there. However, we ran into way more closures than that. First day, we used the parent swap to ride RSR - after I rode first thing with the kids, my wife went back through with the rider swap pass and shortly before getting to the front of the line, the ride went down. To be fair, given Test Track's history, this wasn't a surprise, but it was still a bummer for her. (Thankfully, she did get to ride later in the day as I had picked up FastPasses while she was waiting in line.) Later in the morning, we headed over to Paradise Pier where virtually everything was shut down, except the Fun Wheel and Screamin'. The Swings, Golden Zephyr, and Goofy's coaster did open back up later, after we passed through the area. We rode the Fun Wheel, and then right as we were about to ride Screamin', it went down for the rest of the day. TSMM was also down for a period that day. Soarin' and Screamin' did both come back up before the end of our trip and we were able to ride them, but it was still inconvenient. Hop over to DL over the next two days. Space Mountain was down for the whole trip. The Finding Nemo Subs went down our first day at DL, and were down the rest of the trip. We were in line for Mr. Toad when it went down. The Matterhorn was back up by the time we got there.

Other than the above, the maintenance at DLR was top notch. No missing light bulbs, I didn't notice any obvious failing effects, etc. However, the closures really did color our opinion of things. We had more unplanned closures, ride shutdowns while in line, etc. in 4 days than we have in all of our WDW trips combined. From everything I have read, this is atypical, but it did affect our experience, and it totally stinks that this happened during our first ever visit. I was very excited to ride Space and the Nemo Subs, and we won't get the chance for a while.

Item 2 - Regional vs. well, Non-Regional
I could be off base here, but I'm fairly certain that it has been put forward before that DLR is no longer a regional destination, but a true vacation destination like WDW. I am sure that is true to an extent, and I have no numbers or statistics to back what I'm going to say, but DLR still felt like a regional destination to me - at least significantly more so than WDW. Listening to the conversations in the park, you hear so many more types of things that you would rarely hear in FL - "So-and-so asked me to spend the night." "We always stop here (Redwood Creek Challenge Trail) last so that the little one can wear himself out for the drive home." These were the conversations of SoCal regulars. The number of people there on Friday and Saturday nights for dates was also interesting. Traffic patterns were also very different than what I've run into at WDW in the past - Friday night crowds just kept growing, not waning - presumably due to locals filing in for the fireworks, etc. The weekends seemed much busier than the weekdays. I'm not saying that this makes it worse than WDW, but it is markedly different. While the percentages of local vs. tourist may have changed from where they used to be, the parks, to me, still "felt" like a regional experience heavily influenced by being in one of the largest metro areas in the country. That's just not something you get a whole lot in FL (except maybe for F&W and some other events).

A few other quick impressions:

• The nighttime shows may be technically superior to what is at WDW, but viewing them, especially with small children, is a logistical nightmare. The 10 y/o was the only one who saw much of anything during WoC as I lifted her up in the air for 25 minutes. We paid to get FP with the picnic deal and still were 2-3 people back in the section and couldn't see squat. Fantasmic was better as we stayed for the second show, but we still had to view from way off to the Haunted Mansion side. Meg's announcement of more seats for F! back in DHS didn't seem like such a joke after attempting to experience these two shows. (OK, that's not entirely true...)
• DCA is still a bit of a mess in my mind - I'm glad we didn't visit before the redo. Cars Land is truly spectacular. Condor Flats and Grizzly Peak were well done (the River Run and Trail were both highlights for the whole family). Bugs Land is cheap and a bit of a joke. Hollywoodland was OK I guess, but seemed like it was ripped out of DHS and planted there. Pacific Wharf/Paradise Pier were very well themed, but I couldn't help but feel like most of the rides were just midway rides. From what I know about Walt, I thought that he hated that type of amusement park, and then they go and build a whole area recreating a seaside park in a park "dedicated to Walt's California." It would be like if we created Spiritland and had a whole section dedicated to mommy bloggers and Disney social media (and another to @jt04).
• There was some great food, parades, and attractions that surpassed WDW - Pirates (of course), the fireworks show (Tink kicked a$$), IASW. Indy and RSR were the two best attractions we experienced, no doubt.
• Having the Disney hotels right there, including the GCR in DCA, was very cool - if only we had the $$ to stay there...

As a DLR devotee, you hit the nail on the head of what is good, and not so good about DLR. It stinks that your vacation was during that time frame. I would not at all be surprised that some Pixie Dust might come your way if you edited some opinions, printed out your post and mailed it to guest services at DLR.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Well said! Anybody who was DEEPLY involved in the BP incident along the Gulf Coast came away with a whole new outlook on our media and government! Kenneth Feinberg was BP's grand puppeteer and ALL the major news outlets and members from BOTH political parties were simply his marionettes! So yes, news is often for sale!

I beg to differ. The AP & along with most newspapers were screaming to high heaven about how awful this was.

 

[ParentsOf4]

DVC rents my room for cash to pay for where ever else I am using my points. If I am using points at a Disney hotel, is that considered an average daily room rate? I guess I am asking if my staying on points elsewhere at a hotel is not counted, or counted twice because they rented my room, to pay for my hotel? In addition, if DVC were unable to rent my room, and I got a hotel in DLR, have I added an empty room to the inventory, and the equations?

It would be interesting to learn exactly how Disney accounts for DVC rooms in calculating its hotel occupancy rate. Disney is required to retain ownership of a certain number of DVC points. I recall reading 2% but am unsure if this is the official number. It makes sense for Disney to try to rent these out. I'd guess this 2% is what's included in what Disney refers to as "rentals of Disney Vacation Club units". I wonder if they include anything else.

Assuming they don't include people staying on DVC points in their calculation of occupancy rates, then any DVC left over is probably a very small number. For example 2% of the approximately 4000 DVC rooms is only 80 rooms. It's such a small number that I don't understand why they even both mentioning it in the annual report.

Occupancy rates are down since 2010 while nights booked has improved modestly. These are a source of great revenue which probably explains Disney's willingness to offer "room only" discounts during peak summer season. So far, Disney has offered the following "room only" discounts in 2013 to the general public:

• January 2 - March 7 : 15% to 35% off
• February 18 - March 23 : 15% to 30% off
• April 2 - June 14 : 15% to 30% off
• June 13 - August 14 : 5% to 30% off

No doubt they'll offer discounts for the slower fall and early winter seasons. With the exception of blackout days for major holidays, it appears Disney will end up offering discounts for pretty much the entire year, similar to what they did in 2012.

 

[djlaosc]

Occupancy rates are down since 2010 while nights booked has improved modestly. These are a source of great revenue which probably explains Disney's willingness to offer "room only" discounts during peak summer season. So far, Disney has offered the following "room only" discounts in 2013 to the general public:

• January 2 - March 7 : 15% to 35% off
• February 18 - March 23 : 15% to 30% off
• April 2 - June 14 : 15% to 30% off
• June 13 - August 14 : 5% to 30% off

No doubt they'll offer discounts for the slower fall and early winter seasons. With the exception of blackout days for major holidays, it appears Disney will end up offering discounts for pretty much the entire year, similar to what they did in 2012.

Here in the UK, for 2014, we have free dining (QSDP for moderates, DDP for deluxe/deluxe villas), $200 free gift card, 14 day tickets for the price of 7, and well as room discount (35% OKW/SSR, 10% ASM//POP, 8% CBR/CSR/BCR/YCR) for arrivals between 1st January - 8th April 2014 and 27th April - 30th November 2014.

Unfortunately, our dates aren't fully out at the moment, so we can't get the quotes we need at the moment (can get POR/POFQ/CBR/AKL, but not SSR/AKV)

 

[the.dreamfinder]

For something different.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

^^^ LOL

 

[Lord_Vader]

Step outside the bubble man... the mass market isn't following threads like this. The ads and buzz they see are not focusing on 7dwarves or princess hall not being complete.. they are talking about everything that IS done. In my personal circles of friends and associates I know of approximately 12 families who have been to WDW since the start of the year - and not one of them put NFE's incomplete status as a factor in NOT going. To them, 'its something new to check out' and they go in with an open mind and enjoyed what they got. Heck, one (who has a toddler) was raving how Dumbo's new queue saying 'this is how every ride should be...'.

Sometimes people need to step back and realize how they perceieve things may not be as commonly shared as they might think. We spend hours a week, or even a day, thinking, reviewing, contemplating Disney's actions and product. We are the 1%. The rest are looking at what to do, what not to do, and how to get the most from their trip. They aren't over analyzing the minutia. They are taking a vacation.



Worst analogy of the year.

Agree completely. We visit once/twice a year from 1000 miles away to simply enjoy the resort as a whole, be part of the "magic." As a family that has visited often we end up answering a lot of questions and getting LOTS of feedback after their trips. The children visiting don't care about brand new rides too much, many of them have only been once or never before and to them it is all new. Disney has to walk a fine line between too much change which is counter productive to the out-of-town visitor model, nastolgia plays a major role in returning guests.

Many of the boys, inlcuding mine, really liked the new expansion, my 16yo wanted to ride Dumbo repeatedly not because it spins backwards or is in a new location or mini-land but because we did it every visit since he was 2. If he visited the parks once or twice a month I am very sure he would be bored out of his mind on it and most Disney attractions but when only experiencing the park once or so per year, it is never boring.

 

[Lord_Vader]

There's nothing wrong with that, it just means that you're not in the target audience for deluxe resorts. A lot of people that stay there spend $500 a night and it doesn't even occur to them that it's a lot of money. The fact that you even considered price and checked "what was the cheapest" means your probably weren't going to stay at a deluxe resort anyways. I'm not being judgmental, since I'm in the same boat as you. I can't afford deluxe resorts so I don't stay in them. For you and me, free hot breakfast is an awesome perk that we quite enjoy. For the average Grand Floridian guest, free hot breakfast is either "gross" or simply inadequate because you can't roll out of bed, hop on the monorail and be at Chef Mickey's.

One thing that we have to throw out in these comparisons is the implication that off-site hotel shuttles are just as convenient as Disney transportation. No, Disney transpo isn't perfect but staying off-site is significantly worse. I've stayed off-site and used shuttles a few times and it greatly hurt my experience. They didn't leave early enough to get to park opening, so experiencing attractions like Toy Story was a challenge and you always missed the morning show. Worse was at night, when there was only one or two shuttle times and they often didn't allow you to enjoy the nighttime shows (fireworks etc). You couldn't leave when you wanted to, you had to leave when the shuttle said so. Sure, you could rent a car, but when you add that cost to the price of your room, the premium you'd pay for a Disney resort is reduced by $50 a day or however much you pay for the car.

We learned this many years ago and have paid the premium, sometimes two rooms for our family of four at a moderate resort. Transportation into and out of WDW can be a nightmare that is very easily avoided by staying on property and using Disney transportation.

 

[Lord_Vader]

I think even crummy transportation adds significant value to the Value resorts. It might be $50 to $100 more a night than a comparable off property hotel but you'd spend that on a rental car anyways.

I agree completely, we stayed a few days at AS-S round last new years and cost less than $85 per night with taxes/fees during peak attendance. Off site motel and hotels in the area cost nearly the same and Disney moved all my luggage from CB to AS-S for me, one of many ammenities that are ignored or missed when staying off-site. Also, very few off-site hotels have the equivilent quick-service dining open late for the prices.

 

[raymusiccity]

I agree completely, we stayed a few days at AS-S round last new years and cost less than $85 per night with taxes/fees during peak attendance. Off site motel and hotels in the area cost nearly the same and Disney moved all my luggage from CB to AS-S for me, one of many ammenities that are ignored or missed when staying off-site. Also, very few off-site hotels have the equivilent quick-service dining open late for the prices.

Count me in, too, as someone who truly appreciates stayin 'on-site'. We just returned from a week at Port Orleans/Riverside. Never had any issues when to catch a bus or wondering how late or early we could stay. Disney Express picked up our luggage and delivered them timely to our room. (our luggage tags didn't even get mailed to us on time, but, Disney Express just told us to bring our baggage receipts to them and they'd pick up our baggage for us Not having to worry about toting luggage around the resort, while traveling with three little ones is also a huge plus for staying on-site!

 

[GSP Guy]

I beg to differ. The AP & along with most newspapers were screaming to high heaven about how awful this was.

Ok let me try and give one example of one instance I personally witnessed and let me get your opinion on it. Many concerned citizens and business owners are gathered for a public meeting with BP and government officials, and a group of professional divers get a chance to speak and they hand to BP officials GPS coordinates and photos of what is described as enormous amount of emulsified oil on the bottom where there is a sudden depth change. Ok, Bp then says they will look into it, the diver speaking then walks over to the media person that obviously handled the well known TV news personality that was with him and hands him the same GPS coordinates! Now I am less than 7 feet away from this media personnel! A Bp official walks over takes the paper with the coordinates from media person's hand and says "You don't need that, there is nothing there. We will give you some areas where you can get some footage." The media person's response is ...wait for it....."Yes sir, thank you, I'll get up with you later." So I ask, is this normal operating procedure? If so then Wow I don't know what to say. By the way when I said ALL media, I can just tell you that all the cameras and microphones were labeled with all the major tv network logos were present. I hope there are still journalist/reporters with the courage to report the WHOLE story, I just know they were not in that room or in others I was at. Sorry Dave, I'm not trying to pick a dispute, in fact I generally enjoy your post but the above is factual and I have nothing to gain otherwise.

 

[GSP Guy]

By the way, it is not my intention to derail the thread, so sorry I went so off topic.

 

[Figments Friend]

The "buy 4, get 3 free" days appear to be history, but I'm still somewhat surprised with the number of discounts they keep releasing, especially after Iger spoke publicly a couple years ago about weening the public off of the discounts. Even though the discounts don't seem to be as deep, I guess that's easier said than done.

Yes, you are observant indeed noticing how the discounts continue but are no ways near as good as before.
It is to be expected if WDW is doing well, and does not need to dangle such deep discount offers. I also took advantage of that past deal, the 4 for 3, and the previous one that involved free Gift Cards.

I will say this though : Even though the offers are still just mostly 20/30% package discounts, the marketing push seems harder this season all of a sudden. I am glad you noticed this too, as i was wondering it it was only in my area. Nice to know it is in other parts of the Northeast as well.

The problem is that now however, the 20/30% discounts mean little.
Has anyone noticed how the room rates were inflated earlier this year ? It was over $100+ starting at just the All Stars, and this was even during non-peak seasons. Must be because of all that new NextGen tech...

Yeah..so, classic Retail trick there .....inflate the usually low room rates and offer a *discount*. Instant profits...and also a convenient way to make it look as if the Company is *growing profits* to the stockholders when in reality they are just up to old marketing tricks again. Sigh....and (yawn)...

The marketing for *Monsterous Summer* discounts is definately up a notch. Marketing is pushing this big time it seems here in the Northeast for this summer.
Besides the constant radio ads i mentioned in my previous post, i have noticed other things.
I have received about four e-mail offers/PINS over the past month as well....which i see as unusual. I cannot recall ever receiving so many in so short a time.
WDW seems to miss me already...and wants me to book another visit immediately....and i was just there in January !
Are they hurting that badly..?
Nah...probably just know i like to visit often and want to try to entice me back again.
Still, i find the sudden push interesting and curious.


Sorry Orlando.....i am off to L.A. and DisneyLand for my next *Disney Park fix*.
I will miss ya though, EPCOT...

 

[Darth Sidious]

Yes, you are observant indeed noticing how the discounts continue but are no ways near as good as before.
It is to be expected if WDW is doing well, and does not need to dangle such deep discount offers. I also took advantage of that past deal, the 4 for 3, and the previous one that involved free Gift Cards.

I will say this though : Even though the offers are still just mostly 20/30% package discounts, the marketing push seems harder this season all of a sudden. I am glad you noticed this too, as i was wondering it it was only in my area. Nice to know it is in other parts of the Northeast as well.

The problem is that now however, the 20/30% discounts mean little.
Has anyone noticed how the room rates were inflated earlier this year ? It was over $100+ starting at just the All Stars, and this was even during non-peak seasons. Must be because of all that new NextGen tech...

Yeah..so, classic Retail trick there .....inflate the usually low room rates and offer a *discount*. Instant profits...and also a convenient way to make it look as if the Company is *growing profits* to the stockholders when in reality they are just up to old marketing tricks again. Sigh....and (yawn)...

The marketing for *Monsterous Summer* discounts is definately up a notch. Marketing is pushing this big time it seems here in the Northeast for this summer.
Besides the constant radio ads i mentioned in my previous post, i have noticed other things.
I have received about four e-mail offers/PINS over the past month as well....which i see as unusual. I cannot recall ever receiving so many in so short a time.
WDW seems to miss me already...and wants me to book another visit immediately....and i was just there in January !
Are they hurting that badly..?
Nah...probably just know i like to visit often and want to try to entice me back again.
Still, i find the sudden push interesting and curious.


Sorry Orlando.....i am off to L.A. and DisneyLand for my next *Disney Park fix*.
I will miss ya though, EPCOT...

They have found a way to cross promote WDW trips and Monsters University on a massive scale. Quite a smart strategy in my opinion. Disney has always been good at marketing though.

 

[Figments Friend]

They have found a way to cross promote WDW trips and Monsters University on a massive scale. Quite a smart strategy in my opinion. Disney has always been good at marketing though.

Indeed that is true, but i was commenting more on the sudden marketing push i was observing here in the Northeast.
In this neck of the woods, we usually do not see discount offers for the peak summer seasons. In my original previous post, i was remarking about the sudden oncoming of radio promos for the offer(s) which is a rarity up here. The impression i was getting was that WDW was hurting for bookings and felt a need to extend the previous Spring Offer(s).

I enjoy their marketing...always fun to see how they tie things together. It just seems that this season they are really pushing hard with the summer discounts up here.

 

[thehowiet]

Marketing is pushing this big time it seems. I have received about four e-mail offers/PINS over the past month as well....which i see as unusual.
WDW seems to miss me...and want me to book another visit immediately....and i was just there in January !

This is also pretty interesting to me. Up until 2012, I had never received a pin code. I've been visiting since 1982. Since 2008 the wife and I have gone to WDW at least once a year, sometimes twice. In the past year or so I've received no less than five pin codes after never even receiving one up until that point. My folks have been going since 1976 and since 2007 have gone every 1 to 2 years. They've never once received a pin code either, until this year, and they've already received two in the past four months.

I wonder if this is Disney finally making up for never hooking us up in the past or if they are just pushing out more pin codes than normal.