Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[ParentsOf4]

And 2., that they never change or anything and everything is the same as it was since they went nearly 10 years ago.

I fully agree with both comments.

Main Street USA is supposed to be a romanticized recreation of Walt Disney's youth in Marceline, Missouri.

I guess Disney is going for the full effect and trying to turn all of WDW into a recreation of our youths.

 

[jt04]

A sound editorial filter is not "censorship". It's how an effective news organization runs. Otherwise, we have information anarchy...like social media. Unfortunately, many consumers are anything but "discerning and educated". Just read all the conspiracy theory blogs...

Political interests get stories run all the time in the legacy media. It has only gotten worse over the years. Even Brokaw is sick of it. So please, the idea of a "sound editorial filter" is a myth for the most part. And the people complaining lately on these boards quite often weave biased information into many postings.

The hypocrisy is overwhelming sometimes.

I understand what you are saying, I just think you are looking at it superficially. I am not specifically accusing you or anyone else here of hypocrisy. Being politically motivated? Absolutely.

Good night and good luck!

 

[culturenthrills]

Yes, people who can afford to stay in real luxury hotels (and routinely do) will very quickly realize that Disney has none...but that they charge as much or more than many of them and certainly are way more expensive than better hotels in Orlando.

For some people I know, I can recommend Disney. But there are other people I know who might ask about the Poly or GF and I have to say, "Uh, you don't want to stay there." I know they'll be not only not impressed, but a little ed by the poor quality. They won't balk at the price, but they won't like the place...and that's the problem.

The deluxe resorts used to offer a luxury experience. At some point Disney decided it was cheaper to standardize certain things across all the resorts and many of the things that made the deluxe resorts a cut above the other resorts were taken away. Remember when they used to tout that GF was an award winning resort.

 

[GoofGoof]

The numbers given do not translate to rooms that are occupied with bodies. WDW has contracts with all the major discount Internet travel sites (i.e. Expedia, Priceline, Orbitz, etc.) to which they provide room inventory allotments. These allotments are automatically taken out of the Disney Central Reservations Office (CRO) and are recorded on the books as booked. During off peak times many of these rooms do not get occupied.

They are booked as far as WDW is concerned because Disney has sold the room block at a discount and the rooms are removed from the control of the Disney CRO. Also WDW room block allocations are sold to AAA and other travel agencies for inclusion in package deals. Suffice it to say that "rooms booked" does not reflect actual occupancy rate.

A sale is a sale whether its to me or a travel wholesale company. It's still money in the door for TWDC. I've heard the same thing for years about the Red Sox. Their sellout streak was bolstered by ticket resellers who bought the remaining tickets no matter what...until this year. Nobody goes to Sox games anymore since they stink. The streak is over because the wholesalers stopped buying all of the tickets. If the travel wholesalers are really eating large blocks of unsold WDW rooms they will either go out of business or cut back on purchases of rooms. It's the nature of their business to sometimes eat excess inventory, but the business isn't designed to take constant hits.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I think everyone is greatly oversimplifying issues here. I will say two things, based only on personal observation. First, a friend of mine owns a VIP tour company--he discourages guests from staying at Disney hotels simply because the service will not be what they expect. I think the wealthy are the first to notice things like dirty carpet or having to stand in a 10-person line to check in. Second, based on my fairly extensive time in the Grand, I'd say the top two categories of guests are (1) convention-goers and (2) retirement-age hard core Disney fans.

Lushes. You forgot Lushes.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I have never thought of USA Today as a reputable news organization. I consider them to be on about the same level as social media.

They pay nice tho

 

[Nemo14]

A sale is a sale whether its to me or a travel wholesale company. It's still money in the door for TWDC. I've heard the same thing for years about the Red Sox. Their sellout streak was bolstered by ticket resellers who bought the remaining tickets no matter what...until this year. Nobody goes to Sox games anymore since they stink. The streak is over because the wholesalers stopped buying all of the tickets. If the travel wholesalers are really eating large blocks of unsold WDW rooms they will either go out of business or cut back on purchases of rooms. It's the nature of their business to sometimes eat excess inventory, but the business isn't designed to take constant hits.

Clearly you haven't paid attention to the Sox this year!!!

 

[GoofGoof]

Clearly you haven't paid attention to the Sox this year!!!

Nah, just threw that in there to ruffle some feathers. I know they really dont stink this year. I think it's more the lack of post season the last 3 years that killed the streak. As a Phillies fan I can't really talk. Our sellout streak ended last year when the team dropped in the standings.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, people who can afford to stay in real luxury hotels (and routinely do) will very quickly realize that Disney has none...but that they charge as much or more than many of them and certainly are way more expensive than better hotels in Orlando.

For some people I know, I can recommend Disney. But there are other people I know who might ask about the Poly or GF and I have to say, "Uh, you don't want to stay there." I know they'll be not only not impressed, but a little ed by the poor quality. They won't balk at the price, but they won't like the place...and that's the problem.

I would agree that there are better hotels in the world than the ones at WDW and definitely some that are better values. There are also places where you get less value. IMHO what you are paying for at WDW is location and to a lesser extent transportation. There may be better resorts off property that go for less money, but they are not as convenient. For some people that matters little, for others it's very important. I equate it to a beach resort. If there is a brand new high end resort built near the outskirts of town and an older, beachfront resort that has lesser amenities that are not quite as nice and has outdated, smaller rooms the beachfront resort will usually cost more. People pay more for location. Another good example is a city like NY. Build a 5 star resort across the bridge in NJ and the rates will be around the same as the run down Holiday Inn in Mid-town.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm pretty sure failing to recognize room blocks that do not get sold as unsold inventory would equate to fraud or at least lead to shareholder lawsuits over misleading statements.

..and not all allotments are guaranteed ahead. They may be hedged with deposits+contracts.. but aren't just bought outright. They have release options if the rooms go unsold.

 

[luv]

I would agree that there are better hotels in the world than the ones at WDW and definitely some that are better values. There are also places where you get less value. IMHO what you are paying for at WDW is location and to a lesser extent transportation. There may be better resorts off property that go for less money, but they are not as convenient. For some people that matters little, for others it's very important. I equate it to a beach resort. If there is a brand new high end resort built near the outskirts of town and an older, beachfront resort that has lesser amenities that are not quite as nice and has outdated, smaller rooms the beachfront resort will usually cost more. People pay more for location. Another good example is a city like NY. Build a 5 star resort across the bridge in NJ and the rates will be around the same as the run down Holiday Inn in Mid-town.

There are several nicer hotels within ten minutes of Disney. Some even closer.

The people I'm talking about...I don't have to ask them, "Would you like to stay in a mediocre hotel that will save you five or ten minutes in the car?" I already know the answer. It's "Of course not. Why the hell would you ask such a stupid question?" They wouldn't want to stay in hotels on the level of Disney. They want better.

It just depends on the person. Some people would simply not put up with what Disney offers, while others would be delighted.

 

[GoofGoof]

There are several nicer hotels within ten minutes of Disney. Some even closer.

The people I'm talking about...I don't have to ask them, "Would you like to stay in a mediocre hotel that will save you five or ten minutes in the car?" I already know the answer. It's "Of course not. Why the hell would you ask such a stupid question?" They wouldn't want to stay in hotels on the level of Disney. They want better.

It just depends on the person. Some people would simply not put up with what Disney offers, while others would be delighted.

I agree. There are probably at least several nicer hotels within 10 or 15 minutes. My point is some people don't care about nicer, they are willing to pay to avoid those 10 to 15 minutes and the rental car that goes with it. Just like you pay more to be beachfront vs across the street from the beach. I'm not saying its everyone, just some people.

For some people that matters little, for others it's very important.

 

[Nubs70]

Here is a video I found that could sum all these discussions. It has Snow White, pixie dust, unwavering loyalty, and employee/customer/management relations. They could use this to theme 7DMT.

 

[spaceghost]

Alright, we got back last week from our first ever trip to DLR and I figured I'd post a (not-so) quick impressions post here, even if @WDW1974 isn't here to read it. I have 2 items that (I think) I'm going to disagree with Spirit on, although one probably isn't fair.

Quick summary, we were at the parks April 18-21, with a visit to Downtown Disney on the 17th. We did not stay onsite - too pricy. Stayed at the HoJos across the street, which was nice enough. Overall, we really enjoyed our time there, but there are several plusses and minuses when compared to WDW. I think, as a family, we enjoy the "feel" of WDW more, but there are certain things that will probably bring us back to Anaheim from Maine again in the future.

Now, on to the controversy!

Item 1 - Maintenance
We visited during the heart of the DOSH shutdown affair, so this probably isn't fair, but Disney does have some culpability here. I was tracking things ahead of time and was aware of the closures of Space Mountain and Soarin' before we arrived. BTM was a scheduled refurb, so no surprise there. However, we ran into way more closures than that. First day, we used the parent swap to ride RSR - after I rode first thing with the kids, my wife went back through with the rider swap pass and shortly before getting to the front of the line, the ride went down. To be fair, given Test Track's history, this wasn't a surprise, but it was still a bummer for her. (Thankfully, she did get to ride later in the day as I had picked up FastPasses while she was waiting in line.) Later in the morning, we headed over to Paradise Pier where virtually everything was shut down, except the Fun Wheel and Screamin'. The Swings, Golden Zephyr, and Goofy's coaster did open back up later, after we passed through the area. We rode the Fun Wheel, and then right as we were about to ride Screamin', it went down for the rest of the day. TSMM was also down for a period that day. Soarin' and Screamin' did both come back up before the end of our trip and we were able to ride them, but it was still inconvenient. Hop over to DL over the next two days. Space Mountain was down for the whole trip. The Finding Nemo Subs went down our first day at DL, and were down the rest of the trip. We were in line for Mr. Toad when it went down. The Matterhorn was back up by the time we got there.

Other than the above, the maintenance at DLR was top notch. No missing light bulbs, I didn't notice any obvious failing effects, etc. However, the closures really did color our opinion of things. We had more unplanned closures, ride shutdowns while in line, etc. in 4 days than we have in all of our WDW trips combined. From everything I have read, this is atypical, but it did affect our experience, and it totally stinks that this happened during our first ever visit. I was very excited to ride Space and the Nemo Subs, and we won't get the chance for a while.

Item 2 - Regional vs. well, Non-Regional
I could be off base here, but I'm fairly certain that it has been put forward before that DLR is no longer a regional destination, but a true vacation destination like WDW. I am sure that is true to an extent, and I have no numbers or statistics to back what I'm going to say, but DLR still felt like a regional destination to me - at least significantly more so than WDW. Listening to the conversations in the park, you hear so many more types of things that you would rarely hear in FL - "So-and-so asked me to spend the night." "We always stop here (Redwood Creek Challenge Trail) last so that the little one can wear himself out for the drive home." These were the conversations of SoCal regulars. The number of people there on Friday and Saturday nights for dates was also interesting. Traffic patterns were also very different than what I've run into at WDW in the past - Friday night crowds just kept growing, not waning - presumably due to locals filing in for the fireworks, etc. The weekends seemed much busier than the weekdays. I'm not saying that this makes it worse than WDW, but it is markedly different. While the percentages of local vs. tourist may have changed from where they used to be, the parks, to me, still "felt" like a regional experience heavily influenced by being in one of the largest metro areas in the country. That's just not something you get a whole lot in FL (except maybe for F&W and some other events).

A few other quick impressions:

• The nighttime shows may be technically superior to what is at WDW, but viewing them, especially with small children, is a logistical nightmare. The 10 y/o was the only one who saw much of anything during WoC as I lifted her up in the air for 25 minutes. We paid to get FP with the picnic deal and still were 2-3 people back in the section and couldn't see squat. Fantasmic was better as we stayed for the second show, but we still had to view from way off to the Haunted Mansion side. Meg's announcement of more seats for F! back in DHS didn't seem like such a joke after attempting to experience these two shows. (OK, that's not entirely true...)
• DCA is still a bit of a mess in my mind - I'm glad we didn't visit before the redo. Cars Land is truly spectacular. Condor Flats and Grizzly Peak were well done (the River Run and Trail were both highlights for the whole family). Bugs Land is cheap and a bit of a joke. Hollywoodland was OK I guess, but seemed like it was ripped out of DHS and planted there. Pacific Wharf/Paradise Pier were very well themed, but I couldn't help but feel like most of the rides were just midway rides. From what I know about Walt, I thought that he hated that type of amusement park, and then they go and build a whole area recreating a seaside park in a park "dedicated to Walt's California." It would be like if we created Spiritland and had a whole section dedicated to mommy bloggers and Disney social media (and another to @jt04).
• There was some great food, parades, and attractions that surpassed WDW - Pirates (of course), the fireworks show (Tink kicked a$$), IASW. Indy and RSR were the two best attractions we experienced, no doubt.
• Having the Disney hotels right there, including the GCR in DCA, was very cool - if only we had the $$ to stay there...

 

[GSP Guy]

Disney isn't the first company to buy "news." Not by a longshot.

Well said! Anybody who was DEEPLY involved in the BP incident along the Gulf Coast came away with a whole new outlook on our media and government! Kenneth Feinberg was BP's grand puppeteer and ALL the major news outlets and members from BOTH political parties were simply his marionettes! So yes, news is often for sale!

 

[luv]

So is google. Some companies have a deal that if you type in a name and their company name, it will show up in the first X number of suggestions (and not in the paid sponsor section.)

Pretty much everything is for sale if you have the cash to buy it.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I wanted to drop a great quote I read by Walt. (it is my signature now as well)



That is why I think Carsland for DHS is the wrong move. Please, wow us again with something new. Give fans a reason to visit BOTH resorts if they can. For those who cannot, we should at least want this because WDW deserves a unique and equally spectacular project.

Someone should write an article that says the same thing.

 

[RSoxNo1]

But they don't address capacity. They just accommodate those already in the park.

At best NextGen will keep off the streets because they're stuck in lines. The opposite of what Fastpass was designed for.

The only thing that I've seen as a clear company benefit to this is the concept of the waiting room at Rock 'n' Roller Coaster. The best way to address capacity is to add more attractions. It's why Expedition Everest, Dinosaur, and Soarin' can't be fixed.

 

[RSoxNo1]

A sale is a sale whether its to me or a travel wholesale company. It's still money in the door for TWDC. I've heard the same thing for years about the Red Sox. Their sellout streak was bolstered by ticket resellers who bought the remaining tickets no matter what...until this year. Nobody goes to Sox games anymore since they stink. The streak is over because the wholesalers stopped buying all of the tickets. If the travel wholesalers are really eating large blocks of unsold WDW rooms they will either go out of business or cut back on purchases of rooms. It's the nature of their business to sometimes eat excess inventory, but the business isn't designed to take constant hits.

The streak ended because the team was humiliated into stopping it. They changed the definition of a sellout to a distribution streak. If they give away tickets it counts as a sellout.

People were furious about the awful decisions made last year and despite their early season success and the overall good vibes about the current "best team in baseball" (knock knock knock) it's going to take some time to start selling out every game. Fast forward to when we're more than 2 weeks removed from a horrible tragedy that scares people from going into public places and the Bruins and Celtics are done. If they're still winning, the fans will come back. That's all that matters for Red Sox fans, no charade, no discounted tickets, no discounted concessions, just win.

The same is true of Disney. Stop repackaging the same offerings and trying to sell them as something new. This is why Universal is picking up steam, and more importantly market share from Disney. The lifeblood of any theme park are the rides, and Universal is spending more money, more efficiently, and more effective than Disney is right now. Yes, they had to play catchup, but they're doing it mighty quickly.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Item 2 - Regional vs. well, Non-Regional
I could be off base here, but I'm fairly certain that it has been put forward before that DLR is no longer a regional destination, but a true vacation destination like WDW. I am sure that is true to an extent, and I have no numbers or statistics to back what I'm going to say, but DLR still felt like a regional destination to me - at least significantly more so than WDW. Listening to the conversations in the park, you hear so many more types of things that you would rarely hear in FL - "So-and-so asked me to spend the night." "We always stop here (Redwood Creek Challenge Trail) last so that the little one can wear himself out for the drive home." These were the conversations of SoCal regulars. The number of people there on Friday and Saturday nights for dates was also interesting. Traffic patterns were also very different than what I've run into at WDW in the past - Friday night crowds just kept growing, not waning - presumably due to locals filing in for the fireworks, etc. The weekends seemed much busier than the weekdays. I'm not saying that this makes it worse than WDW, but it is markedly different. While the percentages of local vs. tourist may have changed from where they used to be, the parks, to me, still "felt" like a regional experience heavily influenced by being in one of the largest metro areas in the country. That's just not something you get a whole lot in FL (except maybe for F&W and some other events).

This is still true. Just look at the crowd flow for that park. It picks up after dinner, it's essentially bizarro Disney World.