Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[Pentacat]

Not so.
'74 has made it clear, as have I, that Disney is getting ready to spend some major dollars at WDW.
This includes a major project(s) at DHS and possibly a greatly reduced Pandora at AK.

As for the idea that Diney passed on Potter as a gift to Uni....that is completely untrue, and rather ridiculous.

The best part about about the dealings with James Cameron have pretty much showed that J.K. Rowling was right to take Potter to Universal over Disney.

 

[George]

The best part about about the dealings with James Cameron have pretty much showed that J.K. Rowling was right to take Potter to Universal over Disney.

Unless you think JC wants to everything on the cheap, and Disney is like, "no, no James. We're going to do it the Disney Way. Top notch...Recall, that awesome river rapids ride we took you on? Top shelf all the way."

 

[Funmeister]

There are only a handful of times when Disney and Universal work together. First, they work very close together fighting ticket fraud (non-contracted ticket sellers on 192, I-Drive, etc.). The only time I can really remember Universal and Disney working together was around when Universal and DMGM opened. Universal took out a full page ad in the Orlando sentinel with a picture of the hands of Mickey and ET touching (in the style of ET and Elliot) wishing Mickey Mouse a happy birthday. You will never ever ever see something like that again.

The reason Disney gave up on Potter was because they felt JK wanted too much creative control and ultimately opted not to work with her. This had nothing to do with Disney throwing Universal a bone.

 

[Rodan75]

I still think that big announcements are coming for WDW. But if 74 is right, then something else is motivating the standstill at WDW's theme parks. I can't make it any plainer to you than that. "TDO is cheap" is no longer a viable explanation.

The only answer is really ROI, Thy simply don't see a quick ROI on rapid capital investment in FL. Money can be spent in China, California and on the Cruise Line and get several multiples of revenue growth. Orlando is more of protective investments at this point. Just enough to keep things running and highly profitable. That will change and evolve over time.

There is no conspiracy, just basic capitalism.

Uni will start seeing their return on investment slow, not every attraction is going to create the growth that WWoHP has created, but Comcast has the ability to grow in the multiples Disney is seeing elsewhere, so t is fiscally wise to continue.

The cycle will shift just like it has in the past.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

There are only a handful of times when Disney and Universal work together. First, they work very close together fighting ticket fraud (non-contracted ticket sellers on 192, I-Drive, etc.). The only time I can really remember Universal and Disney working together was around when Universal and DMGM opened. Universal took out a full page ad in the Orlando sentinel with a picture of the hands of Mickey and ET touching (in the style of ET and Elliot) wishing Mickey Mouse a happy birthday. You will never ever ever see something like that again.

The reason Disney gave up on Potter was because they felt JK wanted too much creative control and ultimately opted not to work with her. This had nothing to do with Disney throwing Universal a bone.

I'd love to see that ad!

It's such a shame they passed on Potter. Even though I'm *not* a Potter fan, I'd like to see what they would have done, and where.

 

[twebber55]

Not so.
'74 has made it clear, as have I, that Disney is getting ready to spend some major dollars at WDW.
This includes a major project(s) at DHS and possibly a greatly reduced Pandora at AK.

As for the idea that Diney passed on Potter as a gift to Uni....that is completely untrue, and rather ridiculous.

still thinking cars related or no specifics yet?

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

Not so.
'74 has made it clear, as have I, that Disney is getting ready to spend some major dollars at WDW.
This includes a major project(s) at DHS and possibly a greatly reduced Pandora at AK.

As for the idea that Diney passed on Potter as a gift to Uni....that is completely untrue, and rather ridiculous.

While no one is going to argue that the long awaited investments are a good thing, the question remains how far will they fall before these projects are actually complete. Unlike UNI as of late Disney prefers to show it's cards on the front end and then take years to build what they have announced. If these projects debut say in 2016 which may be generous based on history then UNI will be the shining star in O-town for 2 straight years without much rebuttals from the mouse.

 

[PirateFrank]

The best part about about the dealings with James Cameron have pretty much showed that J.K. Rowling was right to take Potter to Universal over Disney.

I don't think you can condemn one decision on the basis or results of another...we're talking about two different personalities here. James Cameron is notoriously difficult to work with -- and while TDO likely balked at numbers being thrown around by JC and WDI, there may very well have been some completely ridiculous demands made by Cameron...and it's not that difficult to imagine. There isn't a cameron movie project that doesn't go wildly over budget - with Avatar and Titanic being in the top 5 of grossly over-budget films. There's likely enough blame to go around on avatarland for the delays and indecision.

One other thought. You can't point to the success at IOA for potter and claim that it wouldn't have happened at WDW. Lets say Rowling agrees to Disney's constraints (and vice versa) and builds WWOHP at WDW, lets say someplace in DHS. It likely would have paled in comparison to what is currently in place in IOA...but we wouldn't have had the IOA WWOHP expansion to compare it to. It would have been regaled as a success - maybe even a huge one.

"What ifs" don't make for very good reality.

 

[Funmeister]

I'd love to see that ad!

It's such a shame they passed on Potter. Even though I'm *not* a Potter fan, I'd like to see what they would have done, and where.

I tried doing a google image search with no luck. Maybe I will dig through some old boxes and see if I can find it. Now that I think about it it may have been a half pager but regardless it was neat.

 

[Tim_4]

The only thing motivating the standstill at WDW is their desire to invest $1.5B in netgen, instead of rides and attractions. DL chose a different path, and Universal is keeping up with the latter (on both coasts) instead of the former. It's not about their being "cheap" (again, terrific strawman because I didn't bring that up), but rather how they're investing their money. Nothing to do with "outside pressure" or some other inane conspiracy theory....

This type of thinking, and any that "blame" TDO for the problems at WDW are based on a flawed premise, namely that the two coasts operate autonomously. DLR didn't "choose" to go in a different direction because capital spending on this scale isn't up to TDO or TDA. These things come top-down from Burbank. Make no mistake, if NGE is successful at WDW, Disneyland is getting it whether they like it or not. That's the biggest tragedy. The mismanagement in Florida isn't even coming from Florida. It's coming from the central planners.

 

[Funmeister]

While no one is going to argue that the long awaited investments are a good thing, the question remains how far will they fall before these projects are actually complete. Unlike UNI as of late Disney prefers to show it's cards on the front end and then take years to build what they have announced. If these projects debut say in 2016 which may be generous based on history then UNI will be the shining star in O-town for 2 straight years without much rebuttals from the mouse.

I think it will continue possibly until after/if universal opens the 3rd gate. Disney is in wait and see mode in Florida and will be for a bit longer. Remember too that most all capital investments to WDW are on three year fiscal plans. That is why it takes so long for projects to open because it looks better on the books to spread it out over multiple years rather than take the hit in one year. Problem is sometimes you have to bite the bullet ( Transformers, Despicable Me, Simpsons, etc.) and make a quick impact. It will take years for Universal to see a full return on their attraction investments now but they are setting themselves up quite nice for the future (filling hotel rooms and gaining market share).

 

[GoofGoof]

The only answer is really ROI, Thy simply don't see a quick ROI on rapid capital investment in FL. Money can be spent in China, California and on the Cruise Line and get several multiples of revenue growth. Orlando is more of protective investments at this point. Just enough to keep things running and highly profitable. That will change and evolve over time.

There is no conspiracy, just basic capitalism.

Uni will start seeing their return on investment slow, not every attraction is going to create the growth that WWoHP has created, but Comcast has the ability to grow in the multiples Disney is seeing elsewhere, so t is fiscally wise to continue.

The cycle will shift just like it has in the past.

This is dead on. TWDC is spending billions on parks and attractions worldwide, just not in FL. If the ROI is larger in CA or China they are going for it. Projects in FL like FLE and DVC had easy to project ROI. Nextgen is still a bit of a mystery to me, but someone believed in it enough to get it greenlit. I do think that DHS and AK will get their projects eventually, but Disney appears to be in no hurry with them.

 

[alphac2005]

What scares me about this is....is that traditionally these big companies had to let the "average" American make a decent income to be able to buy those products from the big companies, but that's no longer the case, because why worry about 300 million people in a stagnant economy when there's 2+ billion people in Asia that are growing substantially in their economies.

Exactly. What's the incentive to care here when there is a virtually untapped market with decade of huge growth ahead in consumerism? Most large companies have no interest in the notion of national pride, patriotism, whatever you'd like to call it. It's profit without care. Without getting too academic and off the track here, these publicly traded companies are more and more controlled by a select few, whether it's a hedge fund, corporate raider, etc., and it's causing more and more of the same players to move from company to company, squeezing what they want out of major corporation, one after another. For all of our 401ks or IRAs, the investment of the little people is blip on the radar of the ownership of any of these behemoths today.

What stands out without question and backed by fact is that this mentality is overwhelmingly happening with corporations in the United States. Whether it's corporate pay or investment in the home country, our country is off the charts in a terrible way compared to businesses in countries elsewhere in the world.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

This type of thinking, and any that "blame" TDO for the problems at WDW are based on a flawed premise, namely that the two coasts operate autonomously. DLR didn't "choose" to go in a different direction because capital spending on this scale isn't up to TDO or TDA. These things come top-down from Burbank. Make no mistake, if NGE is successful at WDW, Disneyland is getting it whether they like it or not. That's the biggest tragedy. The mismanagement in Florida isn't even coming from Florida. It's coming from the central planners.

While there is some truth to this, it's far from completely accurate. TDO is a completely seperate business entity from TDA and they have full discretion on how they run the resort and over a good deal of the investments in the property. Burbank has been very hands off in regards to Florida since the 90's however that trend appears to be coming to an end. (Thankfully)

 

[Funmeister]

This is dead on. TWDC is spending billions on parks and attractions worldwide, just not in FL. If the ROI is larger in CA or China they are going for it. Projects in FL like FLE and DVC had easy to project ROI. Nextgen is still a bit of a mystery to me, but someone believed in it enough to get it greenlit. I do think that DHS and AK will get their projects eventually, but Disney appears to be in no hurry with them.

I agree but it may be a case that Disney will be forced to invest more in Florida because of what Universal is doing. It is one thing to expand in other markets to generate and gain revenue and having to invest in an existing property to deter further market share loss. The turning point will be when Disney begins to lose considerable nit stays and market share to Universal and now possibly Sea World.

 

[GoofGoof]

I agree but it may be a case that Disney will be forced to invest more in Florida because of what Universal is doing. It is one thing to expand in other markets to generate and gain revenue and having to invest in an existing property to deter further market share loss. The turning point will be when Disney begins to lose considerable nit stays and market share to Universal and now possibly Sea World.

Agreed. The worst thing that could happen to us as WDW fans is all this Universal stuff opens and WDW still maintains or grows in attendance and/or room occupancy. Best case scenario is IOA passes DHS and AK this year in attendance.

In a related note the best thing to happen to the Orlando theme park industry is Potter going to Universal. If Potter went to DHS instead Uni would not be spending like this and WDW would be getting nothing new other than Potter stuff. No Cars, no Avatar, no Star Wars, no MI. Maybe a Potter DVC.

 

[PhotoDave219]

That is how it should be, but this new collaboration, if it is real, began about the time HP went from Disney to UNI. Funny that 74 did not get anywhere near the subject. He always responds to 'inside baseball' stuff but choose not to in this situation. Hmm.

I thought it was that JK Rowling would not give up the required element of control that TWDC wanted.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I thought it was that JK Rowling would not give up the required element of control that TWDC wanted.

...that, and Disney didn't want to put a decent budget on it. Thanks Jay Rasulo!

 

[Lee]

I thought it was that JK Rowling would not give up the required element of control that TWDC wanted.

Control and money were the issues there.

 

[michmousefan]

If you guys haven't seen the POV videos of Mystic Manor at HKD (spoilers: it's the whole ride, so don't watch if you are going there), check this out... but be prepared to be a bit angry as well, as all the great attractions seem to be finding their ways to Disney parks outside the state of Florida... can you imagine how cool Imagination could be with this kind of technology?