Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[WDW1974]

After reading the last 15 or so pages of this thread it occurs to me that this is the most joyless thread I've ever seen. There are too many people (who are usually fantastic and fun posters) seeing this MM+ initiative as some kind of new land and rushing to thrust their flag into the ground and claim its success or failure as a validation of their own business acumen. Sure its fun to say, "This will work!" or "This will fail!" in a light discussion but the bellicose ferocity of the arguments in this thread has turned hostile and uncomfortable to read.

Oh c'mon, relax. This isn't the real world. No blood was spilled. No one was harmed. No one lost a limb or a job or a home. ... It sorta reminded me of many of the discussions on here when I first joined. I'm not saying that's a great thing, but sometimes you have to say what's on your mind and passionate discussions aren't bad things ... we just sorta went too far off the rails in a few directions. Hopefully, that's over. If not, I'll bail and start another thread where these topics can be discussed.

 

[WDW1974]

Since Park expansions were mentioned in previous posts, Mr.Eddie Sotto posted this in his thread about an likely/soon to be/now confirmed by Mr.Spirit expansion(s) occuring in DLPR: <<DLP needs something new and I hope this could be it. http://micechat.com/22424-disneyland-paris-to-feature-new-star-wars-project/ >>

First let me be the first to tell you that you do NOT have to use Mr. when dealing with myself or Eddie or anyone here. While it is respectful, it isn't needed. OK, sir?

The Star Wars project for DLP is a go. It is two-phased, unfortunately, so gotta hope a Phase II actually gets done. But it does look good and that park, as amazing as it is, needs more attractions ...

 

[HMF]

Yes. Supposedly, when T-land gets dealt with it will be an all-encompassing deal.

Any timeline on that?

 

[George]

At this point, he is a top 3 Marvel icon, especially if Cap is too American and Wolverine is too not family-friendly. And I can't imagine wanting to create a Spiderman or Hulk ride that will be compared immediately to its Orlando counterpart.

Bigger than Alpha Flight?

Bigger than Powerman and Iron Fist?

I think not.

 

[HMF]

Doubt it. Iger has Marvel planned for the old strawberry fields. Hopefully, his replacement will nix that as it's likely a good 7-10 years away at this time.

Why do I get the strong feeling that the Marvel acquisition was an Iger vanity project from the start. It makes little sense from a branding standpoint (Contracts with rival film studios and Theme Parks) My guess is Iger was/is a Marvel fan in his youth and thought having control of it would fulfill some personal ambition,Otherwise the Marvel acquisition makes no sense.

 

[Clever Name]

I think not.

Rex Mason can whip all of them:

 

[spaceghost]

Why do I get the strong feeling that the Marvel acquisition was an Iger vanity project from the start. It makes little sense from a branding standpoint (Contracts with rival film studios and Theme Parks) My guess is Iger was/is a Marvel fan in his youth and thought having control of it would fulfill some personal ambition,Otherwise the Marvel acquisition makes no sense.

Umm, huh??? Whether or not you think Marvel fits with Disney's historical brand, Marvel has and will continue to make huge $$$ for TWDC. Marvel brand recognition has to be at or near an all time high. The movies and related merchandise are making billions. There are certainly points to nitpick in regards to how Marvel fits into Disney culture, but as a business decision, it makes total sense.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

No. From what I've been told Marvel won out over Star Wars in HK. ... Shanghai may well be the opposite as Disney really has to keep those parks as different and unique as possible or else they'll face thr wrath of the dragon.

Or this guy.

 

[Figments Friend]

Why do I get the strong feeling that the Marvel acquisition was an Iger vanity project from the start. It makes little sense from a branding standpoint (Contracts with rival film studios and Theme Parks) My guess is Iger was/is a Marvel fan in his youth and thought having control of it would fulfill some personal ambition,Otherwise the Marvel acquisition makes no sense.

The only reason i see is for pure profit.
Marvel is a hot money maker right now.

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

First let me be the first to tell you that you do NOT have to use Mr. when dealing with myself or Eddie or anyone here. While it is respectful, it isn't needed. OK, sir?

Ok, I'll refrain from doing that. Eddie said the same thing that DLP needs more attractions. So Spirit, in that article it mentioned the Marvel Land would be nestled in the WDS Backlot. What would do you think this land look like? What attractions, restaurants, etc. could we possibly see? Will similar concepts be brought into play here with what HKDL is getting? How would you do about with this concept? I know the Avengers crew is extremely popular and already are an established brand to the Disney brand, but I would maybe hold fire for a little while and maybe over time if they dive into the Marvel comics/books and pull out some great characters/stories (worlds) to work with in the movies, I see that as a great opportunity not only for this resort here but can open up unique experiences/opportunities elsewhere for other/future lands like you said with DL's 3rd gate in those SoCal strawberry fields. They discussed in the article that they should have a mix of new rides with a re-theming of existing rides. I'd like to get your take on it. Good things are coming about it looks like for DLPR.

But relating to the thread title, Phillippe Gas stated that he sees/envisions DLP using Magicbands in the future. Question is when we can anticipate that (ever) happening? I can see them wanting to implement/use them to since they budgeted 1.5 Billion (and still climbing) for the P&R's NGE so they want to get it as many parks as they can to get a sustainable/heavy ROI ( they'll want to try and sell as many customized bands as they can since you will have to pay extra if you want to wear em) that Disney Execs believe they can get.

 

[spaceghost]

I've never needed an APP to visit WDW in hundreds of days (could it be more? scary!) I don't need one now. I don't want to need one. I don't want someone bumping into me because instead of taking in the beauty of DAK they are walking with their head down into their iPhone.

I don't disagree with you, but that train has already left the station, and it's not Disney's fault. They can either hop on the tech express or throw themselves on the tracks in front of it. Now the implementation... that could use some work...

 

[Figments Friend]

You clearly need to look at your Epcot Map for Tourists more closely. Didn't you know that China and Japan switched places?

Okay, that is just hilarious.
Hilarious..because sadly so true.

*The Drums*....
* Imaginating...*

 

[prfctlyximprct]

The way of the future is all smart phones, apps, technology etc. You can hate all you want on my generation but don't forget who raised us.

 

[dhall]

I never accused anyone of anything. I'm suspicious by nature about some things, but I know how to stop short of an accusation of anything I am anything less than 100% sure about.
In your case, all I had/have was a mild curiosity.

Of course not.
But I would hope that the guy would make full disclosure about his role if it could be relevant at all. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It could just as likely lend some added credence and credibility to his statements.

You know, we've never seen full disclosure about any of the insiders and how it happens that they have access to inside information that turns out to be accurate. I've been participating on this board (mostly lurking, posting in spurts) for well more than a decade (there was a forum software switch just before my posted join date where we all lost our message counts), and it's really been the trustworthy insiders that have kept me coming back, even though I've never known who any of them really are. I understand that public knowledge would lead to a valuable source of information drying up. I've seen folks on this board speculate as to 74's identity, and clearly a number of people know it. I've also seen a number of members of this board let the stalkers know that their efforts are not welcome.

In this case, flynn (and I) am in that boat: there's a line that I have walked very carefully in this thread due to the nature of some of my employers. There have been customers using software that I have worked on mentioned in these threads: I obviously will not identify who they, who the employers, or what the products are. Companies like Cisco and the companies I've worked for generally have policies in place that make identifiably public disclosures on boards like this a potential problem.

flynn's a big boy -- he can defend himself. He chooses to more publicly link his various activities together in a way that makes him fairly easy to trace. That he is subject to this level of scrutiny, tho, feels a little one sided. There's nothing that he's said in any of these threads that's been technically wrong -- I'd've been one of the first to clarify any points where he's been factually incorrect. The biggest difference between he and I is that he is apparently more optimistic about the outcome for guests than I am and is more willing to make a positive case than I am. He also apparently enjoys internet debate with strangers a lot more than I do.

But my major point, here, is this: we've all appreciated the access to apparently inside information that 74, yourself, martin, Corrus, raven, and others have provided, and we do so without having to have them present credentials. I think in this debate, that courtesy needs to extend both ways.

 

[dhall]

I was going to stay out of this debate other than to point out the irony since it's impossible to know what happened and to what extent it's an issue. First, I haven't seen specifics on the issue, so anything said is speculation. But, that doesn't seem to stop those that WANT to see this system fail. Why? I'm not sure.

If it's true that profiles belonging to other users are being seen, then it's possible there's an issue in the authentication services. Standard practice is to transmit true authentication information as little as possible. This would include the email address / password combo to sign into the system. Once sent, the normal practice is to use authentication ticket / tokens for future requests within the same session.

This problem may be due to an issue at the token level... with a token not being globally unique within the system. Disney uses a single sign on authentication method for a single account login to access multiple systems. Basically each user interface system takes the authentication data, transmits it for authentication, retrieves a token, and then uses that token to retrieve data from the backend systems. Normally, the token system is a singular module within the n-tier application that receives requests from multiple UI locations -- website, kiosks, mobile site, apps, etc. However, it's possible they created multiple modules for authentication for different UI systems. If so, the token may not be truly unique across all systems. So, a mobile app user gets a token of 123456789 that is connected to user ABC and a website user gets a token of 123456789 for a different user. Basically, the token is unique within the specific UI system, but not within the token cross reference for the backend system. This could explain the profile issue being reported.

As Flynn has already noted, an issue such as this could be introduced from multiple teams writing different parts of the system without access to singular modules usable for multiple teams. If this happened, it was probably due to trying to get the systems created by multiple teams to reduce application development timelines. Again, each team tested their systems without problems, but the unit tests were not built for combined system usage. I'm not downplaying the issue, just speculating on a possible cause. If this speculation is close to accurate, the good news is it's easily (design, not necessarily implementation) fixed by implementing a singular authentication token system shared by the different UI systems.

Finally, for full disclosure, I do not work for anyone remotely connected to NextGen...

Maybe all us techies should just get a room!

 

[dhall]

So, I'll admit, I've stayed far away from this thread for a while and tried to catch up in the last few pages, so feel free to send me to the curb here if it's been discussed ad nauseum.
How much of the large pricetag that we've seen bandied about on here was spent on updating/integrating legacy systems? My assumption here is that it's been the largest dollar spend in the entire project.
It seems we know that there are many systems out existing in Disney, and previously they were not integrated together. Passholders for DL and WDW were stored in separate systems. Reservations and ADRs again, seemed to be different systems. Marketing, sales, etc, all different systems. This is something you'll likely find in nearly every corporation.
It makes me wonder here how much time and effort has been put into either a complete replacement to their existing systems (a overall integration / master data management effort) and how much has been done via some form of virtualization (either in-house or 3rd party).
Doing these kinds of works is HARD, take a ton of time, money, and commitment. There are rarely shortcuts. My assumption with the high dollar amount that has been placed on this whole project was that the largest part of that budget went to basically completely rebuilding their data infrastructure. The data mining pieces, while containing interesting bits of technology (RFID), spoke more to me of something that was being dropped on top of the new infrastructure. The data collection/analysis in some form of Big Data solution (NoSQL/Hadoop), and that being relatively easy to put in place on top of a new infrastructure, not a disparate set of systems. I felt the data mining piece was really only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Any idea on how the multi-billion pricetag was truly broken down? Feel free to tell me to go search it myself if its readily available.

I tried to break down some educated swag's about the project in the old thread - you might find that.

I think the biggest part of the project is the attempt to provide the equivalent of a medium sized municipal wi-fi system -- that's probably why Cisco is one of the two lead providers and is also IMO the likely cause of the overrun. I'm guessing that the software & systems integrators fees are a distant second, maybe something like a fourth to a third the total.

 

[Clever Name]

Corrus

He's a better weatherman than Bob Iger!

 

[dhall]

First let me be the first to tell you that you do NOT have to use Mr. when dealing with myself or Eddie or anyone here. While it is respectful, it isn't needed. OK, sir?

The Star Wars project for DLP is a go. It is two-phased, unfortunately, so gotta hope a Phase II actually gets done. But it does look good and that park, as amazing as it is, needs more attractions ...

Do you have any idea about how adaptable either phase is for deployment to state-side parks? They do like to amortize their design expense...

 

[yeti]

I've never needed an APP to visit WDW in hundreds of days (could it be more? scary!) I don't need one now. I don't want to need one. I don't want someone bumping into me because instead of taking in the beauty of DAK they are walking with their head down into their iPhone.

That they are wrong just is more fodder for my contention that Disney can't get anything right with technology (this dates back well into the 90s when they couldn't handle sign-ups for merchandise events at DL) and they shouldn't be given any benefit of the doubt as the horror stories pour in.

Deffffinitely not. It's a service they claim to be offering but aren't. Not really any tech formalities or early trial explanations that can cover that one.

I think iPhones are an instance of personal technology causing deeper fragmentation as opposed to connection. You see this a lot in Disney: the uncommunicative kids glued to their iPad while having a meal with their family at Monsieur Paul, three-year-olds milling about aimlessly because their parents are texting. At the Fant! preshow (speaking of horror stories) they insist we make a wave with our cell phones, as opposed to the old-fashioned way, and being a minute before showtime it segues into constant phone use throughout. It's bizarre. I experienced NewTestTrack for the first time ever this morning, and that I have to say is a grand example of innovative connectivity being used to actually make the experience better. Taking photos at the end with our SimCar was great! Likewise for the compact RFID-based system. Link it to your email? Perfect. Social/cloudbased/interactive/handheld/whatever tech is great when it's actually efficient. Unfortunately we're blind-sighted by distractions and addictions.

On a side note, I realized the Maharajah Jungle Trek is probably my favorite thing in all of AK.

 

[Kiff]

I think we'll see return on this investment. Hopefully some of those returns are invested back into the parks on the things you want. I see many "data mining schemes" here that are non-intrusive, good for the customer and the business, and has potential to improve guest experiences. I do think it will take some time for it to be rolled out and I think there will be bumps in the road.

I see a plus for those that don't plan in advance. Simple example... you're in the park and want to get dinner. Right now, you have to head to guest services or call someone to see where you could go. The new mobile services could quickly show you all the locations with reservations open in the next hour sorted by those closest to your location. Click a button, reserve the table, head over for dinner. Simple, quick and no hold music.

Another example... you're in Mouse Gear looking around and on the bubble of buying something but decide not to. You walk out the door and a minute later get a text with a coupon for 10% discount on Mouse Gear merchandise. You turn around, buy that retro shirt, Disney makes a sale, you got a discount (and a cool shirt).

This would certainly be what I would hope would come out of nextgen. Unfortunately nothing Disney has done over the last 10 years leads me to believe this will be the case.

Take restaurants for example. Since the introduction of the dinning plan the ability to get a table at any of the descent locations has become impossible without reserving months in advance. Have they done anything to correct this? All I see them doing is lowering the food quality and variety to accommodate the... Shall we say... Typical tourist, and raising food prices to justify the large expense of the DP.

I have come to the sad conclusion that WDW doesn't see the months in advance booking as a problem. It's now viewed as good business.