Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[SirOinksALot]

You know something, somehow in the excitement, the sheer ecstasy of the moment of seeing Tom Staggs and Nick Franklin dancing a tango I totally forgot that you were a troll who has had numerous posts disappear and now is just posting nonsense. So ... you keep it up. But I'll play with the adults. If it oinks like a pig ...

Ahh yes, the old man and his horrible memory strike again. m.Rudolf had numerous posts disappear, I was just the one he was arguing with. I asked for the admin to clean it up and he did, even the parts that were missed and I pointed out. You're guessing incorrectly at me being a troll but I'm hitting the nail on the head when I say you're a puppet, and it's getting under your skin.

 

[marni1971]

So I understand....

The company announce they spend/squandered/wasted 2 billion on Nextgen the same day they announce they are laying off 10% of the workforce to save money?
After the just bought Lucas?
After they cut the PAP discount in half?
As they greatly increase ticket prices year on year?

 

[Nemo14]

So I understand....

The company announce they spend/squandered/wasted 2 billion on Nextgen the same day they announce they are laying off 10% of the workforce to save money?
After the just bought Lucas?
After they cut the PAP discount in half?
As they greatly increase ticket prices year on year?

Magical, isn't it?

 

[SirLink]

So I understand....

The company announce they spend/squandered/wasted 2 billion on Nextgen the same day they announce they are laying off 10% of the workforce to save money?
After the just bought Lucas?
After they cut the PAP discount in half?
As they greatly increase ticket prices year on year?

Ya forgot after they announced WWOHP had an impact on their P&R Business? They must be dreaming of magical thoughts of MagicBands dancing in their heads ... I think I might write in the near future a parody of Twas the night before xmas ...

 

[PhilharMagician]

NAILED IT!!!

I do wish 99% felt this way and wiped the Pixie Dust and naive optimism out of their eyes. Although I truly sense that far more have problems with this than Disney every anticipated.

Hey Duncan, is it still 18 postive comments to one negative? Hell, even if it, it very much depends on who that one negative poster is. It's all about sphere of influence, real world influence much more so than online. But I suspect the Celebration Place Social Media Cabal already gets that.

They wash out the negative posts that they don't want viewed faster than they are typed. I have had a few cleaned before they ever hit the web.

 

[Jane Doe]

They wash out the negative posts that they don't want viewed faster than they are typed. I have had a few cleaned before they ever hit the web.

I had a 'suggested post' on Facebook the other night from a bank that I don't use and have never 'liked' in return. They were asking 'what are your financial resolutions for 2013?' to which a great deal replied with superb industrial language that it was none of their business and telling them to keep off their account. Funnily enough those responses were removed as quickly as they arrived, and only those stupid enough to respond with a nice answer (most likely NatWest Bank employees) were left on. If people think that the official Disney site is a true litmus test of public opinion they want their bumps felt.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Ya forgot after they announced WWOHP had an impact on their P&R Business? They must be dreaming of magical thoughts of MagicBands dancing in their heads ... I think I might write in the near future a parody of Twas the night before xmas ...

Magic Bands versus Magic Wands? Who will win the battle of the swamp?

 

[Goofyernmost]

You honestly think Disney can throw up two or three antennas with a half mile read and trace the path of 50K passive RFID cards in people's pockets?

Why do you think warehouses that utilize this technology have readers everywhere and not just one beacon in the middle of the room? I'm sure your source probably has a great title, but they certainly don't have any grasp of technology.

All they have to survey really, is just inside the ride confines and the stores and restaurants. Even if it had limited projection, everything they need can easily be within range. They don't have any interest in whether or not you are at Daytona Beach. Their concern will be within the confines of WDW itself.

 

[SirOinksALot]

All they have to survey really, is just inside the ride confines and the stores and restaurants. Even if it had limited projection, everything they need can easily be within range. They don't have any interest in whether or not you are at Daytona Beach. Their concern will be within the confines of WDW itself.

The point is that the guy who claims to be "blowing the lid" off things is in reality so far off with his description of the technical abilities of the system. If you can't get the very basics right, things that are facts as opposed to opinions that anyone can have in any direction... then what is he doing trying to sound like an expert.

There are times that 74 is a hack at a keyboard with good sources. Right now he's a hack at a keyboard with bad sources.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Anyone a Fringe fan?

"The Future In Order"....

 

[flynnibus]

You damn well know we are talking about two different things here.

The intent is 'different' - but the examples and substance are total crap. If you can't quantify the concern with legit examples.. then maybe the concern isn't that solid. So yes, I know what the fear is, but trying to support it with unfounded, unlikely, or just totally bunkus 'issues' doesn't make the concern legit.

If we stick with you defending corporate talking points, then I'm never going to get back to that Bash the Bloggers thread, let alone read your DLR trip report.

If these are their talking points.. I should switch professions and become a psychic because I'm reading their minds from afar. Maybe I'm really good at it and just never discovered it!

 

[awoogala]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009...ZY20090723?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0
just what iger thinks of direct marketing to kids.

 

[flynnibus]

Well, I take it by now that you did read Tom Staggs statement on TDPB, yes?

I did.. but I'm not seeing the correlation you are trying to make here. The corporate statements basically said
- its coming in the coming months
- its for everyone
- its free
- its coming for onsite people first
- it reenforced points that nextgen was more than just FP+ or MyMagic (always forgotten here)
- they try to acknowledge not everyone is a planner

Basically.. what I and others have been saying for months. Counter to the tidbits that may be based in truth, but are being misapplied.. such as FP+ won't be free, FP+ is only for onsite people, etc. That's the problem is people have been taking slivers of info and extrapolating.. and generally wrong. Will onsite people be treated differently? I bet they will - but that doesn't mean offsite are excluded. Yet someone took that onsite info and extrapolated it wrong. Will there be upsold portions to FP+ where not all are treated equally? I bet there will be to a degree.. but again.. people took that tidbit and extrapolated it to mean FP+ will not be free.

As to your source's 'article' vs the company statements posted - I don't see where you are going with this. Your 'article' nags about how
- there is no opt-out (another half truth I'm sure..)
- Disney plans to 'export the technology' to other companies
- repeatedly using the word 'surveillance' to infer nefarious
- mistakenly uses terminology wrong
- mistakenly assumes the cards and bracelets are interchangable in capabilities
- raises the question of safety and legality (both topics not addressed by Staggs).

So no.. I don't see why one would assume the public disclosure stuff by Staggs to be some sort of 'response' to concerns brought up. Since they don't really address anything brought up by you or your source.

And all the noise about COPPA lately is just something that would impact the implementation and complexity of the system - not a show stopper. It's sad because what it will ultimately mean is the system will be more complex for the users - not that it will really protect children. COPPA has been a joke honestly.. the new proposed changes improve some of the gapping holes in it, but still has little value IMO. I look at it as yet another example of how bad things are when you write laws that basically defer the details to a government body later to expand upon.. and the result is always horrible (ADA and COPPA both follow this miserable model).

 

[njDizFan]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009...ZY20090723?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0
just what iger thinks of direct marketing to kids.

This is a great example of One Disney. They are a media conglomerate that sees sagging advertising sales on their TV revenue and now have found a way to gain back this auddience by selling their cosumers' information from P&R. I stated this in a post a while ago, TV ad revenue is in big trouble. Less than 11% of people actually watch network telelvision on a daily basis opposed to over 20% just 5 years ago. Hulu, Netflix, DVRs are killing this advertising market. So now the disney parks are becoming almost a subsidiary of ABC/ESPN. If they are not watching the commercials on my network, we will have to advertise to them in a totally different way...Nextgen.

It's almost brazen the way Iger flatly describes their intent to market P&R.

"If we could sell your behavior to an advertiser -- I am actually pretty bullish about what technology is going to allow in terms of behavioral tracking. I think we are going to have information to sell to marketers."

 

[Tiggerish]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009...ZY20090723?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0
just what iger thinks of direct marketing to kids.

Wow.

Last night I booked myself and hubby a room at Villas at Wilderness Lodge for a week and bought tickets to a Tigers spring training game in Lakeland, Kennedy Space Center, and Universal Orlando--looks like we'll finally make our first visit to Uni.

I did have to "update" my account to a My Disney Experience in order to make the one (grossly overpriced) Disney dining reservation we wanted, but I found that I was not forced to enter the name of my dining companion. I had to click "Next" about three times, but it did eventually give me a confirmation number with "Unknown" as my guest.

I made sure to read the T&C of the "My Disney Experience" and was bemused by the descriptions of "Managed Friends" and "Connected Friends"--way too facebooky for my taste.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

 

[alphac2005]

And all the noise about COPPA lately is just something that would impact the implementation and complexity of the system - not a show stopper. It's sad because what it will ultimately mean is the system will be more complex for the users - not that it will really protect children. COPPA has been a joke honestly.. the new proposed changes improve some of the gapping holes in it, but still has little value IMO. I look at it as yet another example of how bad things are when you write laws that basically defer the details to a government body later to expand upon.. and the result is always horrible (ADA and COPPA both follow this miserable model).

The intention of legislation such as COPPA is quite noble and originate in a true effort to protect children, BUT, as you know, so many special interests lobby the FTC (in this case) that it results in watered down legislation that is full of broad overtones and little specific use. The deference is placating those special interests trying to essentially punt the ball for another time.

In the industry that I'm in, there has been a small army from top U.S. corporations, retailers, ISP's, Internet advertising networks, etc. to make sure that the revisions don't amount to much. Getting back to the original work of 2000 and now the amended legislation in 2013, exactly how do you prove parental consent for these websites, apps, etc.? As of today, all a kid has to do is put in a phony birth date to "prove" that they are of proper age. I have yet to see any part of the amendments that expand on exactly how this is going to be done. The only piece of the amendment that has any real meat to it is the sharing of data with third parties, where there actually is some significant improvement.

It's a simple truth that so many good ideas go to die once the legislation is complete because our government is so, well, corrupted by various interests that keep the citizens best interests at bay.

 

[IWant2GoNow]

This is what I've been saying all along and people aren't grasping...

NextGen is an attempt to side step the tit for tat attraction race. Its an attempt at differentiating the park experience in a way that your competition can't easily replicate. It's not that Disney won't build more attractions in the future - but it's a way of getting out of a simplistic race no one wins.

Not to compare companies but scenarios, this didn't work out so well for Nintendo in the long run when they decided not to participate in the console wars anymore & "innovate" with the Wii. They failed to see what consumers wanted (HD graphics & easy online play) & decided to go for (albeit a decent system for all ages) a gimmicky controller & interactive play scheme. They slowly lost the hardcore gamers & eventually lost to a more advanced tech in Kinect that wiped out a controller altogether. They suffered a HUGE loss last year. Although, the companies have separate motives. Their explanation for "not competing" in their medium is roughly the same.

You're a theme park. Build attractions to compete with other theme parks building attractions.

I don't care so much about the privacy concerns (although I should) but possibly $2 billion is being thrown into something that may or may not even work? I do not see that as a good investment even if they have ways of making it become profitable by making wristbands into collectibles. All this does to me is gives other theme parks a good idea but will figure out ways to implement it better. UNI will likely come out with the "Kinect version" of NextGen.

On other notes, I don't enjoy the mandatory aspect of this whole plan. Others may say "you can opt out by not going to Disney" but that's not a principle on which Disney parks were built. These parks were meant to be a place of fun & relaxation for families; not worrying whether or not you want to be tracked or counted or surveyed. Let's be honest, for all of us here "opting out of Disney" is not really an option. Disney knows this & I feel like they are exploiting the diehards for that reason. If newcomers don't like NextGen & all that it entails they may pass on it without knowing what they are missing. Disney doesn't really care about them though because they WANT diehard Disney fans to use NextGen so that they can develop patterns & continuously market to the faithful as much as possible. We've all been suckered in to buying some expensive souvenier that we impulse bought, & Disney wants those people to continue that trend by offering them "magical, limited-time only, use-this-coupon-before-it-expires-conveniently-at-the-end-of-your-vacation" deals. And Disney knows they will fall for it. Disney should want to bring in new attractions that allure NEW customers to WANT to visit. They're always going to have "us" for the most part. You want new turnstile clicks & new "lifers" in the parks? Give them a reason to be there in the first place.

I would not want to participate in this, but then again, if they don't have any new must-see attractions I won't stay on property anyway. However even if I visit MK for a day on an Orlando trip, I'll still be forced to do this but won't have FP access because I'm not staying on site, so what's the point? I should have the option not to participate at all, not just the option to NOT go to the parks.

This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous from the $ amount to the privacy implications to the horribly fake marketing strategy of it all. If a guest is in my house & leaves from the living room & comes back, I don't question where they went or what they did immediately. I feel that's rude. Disney is doing this but they are doing it "magically" with RFID so it is unseen & unheard, which from a surface level seems unintrusive because they don't have a CM asking you where you went to eat at 12:30pm & what ride you did before & after.

 

[MattM]

Or I could simply wrap the RFID chip in a few layers of aluminum foil.

There are a number of products on the market that effectively block RFID signals.

As I previously have written, I have little issue with using a passive device or with engaging a device at locations and times of my choosing. I accept that when I initiate a transaction, whether it is online or in person, there is an exchange of information that private companies have access to.

As I suggested here (http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/nextgen-deep-impact.857159/page-4#post-5245408) and elsewhere, Disney clearly intends to profile each guest and “reward” them for “proper” behavior. Whether I like it or not, I believe it’s within Disney’s prerogative to do so.

However, I find it insulting and dehumanizing for Disney to track my every move as if I were a convict out on parole.

United States v. Jones clearly establishes that tracking devices are a form of search. This ruling is less than a year old. Despite what you think, the question of private tracking devices is by no means settled law. I fully expect legislatures and courts to address this matter further.

@ParentsOf4 I agree with you on this. I don't like it one bit either.

And I also don't disagree with you that this is settled by law. My only point is that right now, Disney is/has done nothing illegal, and that US v Jones does not apply to Disney because they are a private entity and not a governmental body.

Crappy, but legal.

 

[MattM]

So, let's review the last few days.
3.) a Disney online who is interviewing with Disney for a position puts up said proprietary company info on his web site and doesn't Tweet or take credit for it, just lets it spread;

Able to say who this may be for those of us not really "involved?"