I knew that the costuming department had it to help them find the costumes - it was shown on a TV show a few years ago, I think, but now they'll have the sensors to be able to track them wherever they are (if they didn't already)
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- Thread starter WDW1974
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I knew that the costuming department had it to help them find the costumes - it was shown on a TV show a few years ago, I think, but now they'll have the sensors to be able to track them wherever they are (if they didn't already)
Then you should load up on shares of $DIS up here at $50.
MattM - Only an idiot would buy $DIS up here, but I may have found my guy.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Are you kidding? It worked magic for Nintendo - they rolled.. and rolled over giants with far more powerful systems. Memes like these weren't sarcastic..
You're looking at the results now.. 6 years later and saying the whole thing was a bust. That's not accurate. What is a bust now is they waited too long to refresh. They shifted the market, successfully, but then rode it too long and failed to invigorate the market with new freshness. Also during that time, the rise of the iPhone/iPad has completely stolen their minigame/familyGame appeal. They waited too long and now are being cannibalized by a new market disrupter. Kinect and Move didn't derail Nintendo... Apple and stagnation did.
If things were that simple.. why build things like World Showcase? Why build water parks? Why build monorails? Why build golf courses? Why bother with shops and restaurants and just ensure people are fed.. and focus on those rides?
WDW is built upon the attraction of more than just Big Thunder Mountain and others. Fans often forget that because all the subconscious elements they have just come to ASSUME from Disney - rather than recognize the specific effort. People just ASSUME Disney should move you around property for free. People just ASSUME Disney should offer parades and fireworks.. People just ASSUME characters should be out in the parks for Meet&Greets.. etc. These are not 'default' things - these were things the company had to invest in to make happen. It's these building blocks that make up the vacation experience.. and in part.. makes you desire WDW verse alternatives.
The sum of its parts for WDW - is not just about the A-E attractions. And the rest doesn't come for free or without effort.
When people finally get the details and stop freaking out about location services because they are told (and listen) that Disney can't track your movements with just the card without you explicity using it. Their ability to track you is effectively the same as it is today.. each time you use it for room charges or a FastPass machine.
If you don't use the Magic Band - you won't have a 'beacon' and you'll only be tracked when the card is explicitly used.
That is not true - FP+ does not exclude offsite visitors.
Again - it's misinformation and half truths that are causing so much unnecessary duress.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Yes but Reedy Creek Improvement District is Disney and RCID is a government body. In Disney's case, the lines are blurred.
Disney can't run its own government with its benefits without also having its same restrictions. Could make for an interesting argument in court.
flynnibus
Premium Member
No they won't - because those tags can't be read at a distance everywhere. They only work when passing through a specific EM field - something that you don't do over large areas.. you only do it through specific points or via readers aimed at things.
Passive readers are not trackable - they are DETECTABLE. Very different ideas. The tracking of passive RFIDs comes from the idea that a history is kept each time the tag is detected somewhere.
Passive tags reflect and emit when activated by the EM field. That EM field is generated by the reader and is range and direction limited.
So Disney can do things like track when an item goes through.. say a doorway to the cafe or maybe the CM entry point. But it can't track a janitor as he walks around his zone in mainstreet. It can only detect the janitor when he passes through an explict field generated by a reader.
This is why the magic bands have 'beacons' in them which allow the tag to announce it's presence without having to explictly be in the beam of a active reader.
The use of RFID in an inventory system like costuming is not about location services - it's about data entry, simplicity, and detection (say for loss prevention) is normally secondary. RFID is used in such systems as a better alternative to barcodes.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Yes but Reedy Creek Improvement District is Disney and RCID is a government body. In Disney's case, the lines are blurred.
No it's not - and no sound lawyer would ever try to make that case in court. RCID is structurally independent. Influenced? Sure.. Manipulated? Sure.. but there is nothing at all there to somehow infer TWDC somehow becomes a government entity because of RCID. Disney is able to control RCID through the preconditions it setup in land ownership - not through direct links.
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
And it's private property, and for us to be "invited" onto the property to use the amenities, we are agreeing to the terms set forth by the owner of the property. In this case, it sounds like a passive tracker.
Regardless, I don't want to wear one of those ugly tracking bands...
IWant2GoNow
Well-Known Member
You're exactly correct, it worked in the short term because it was a new gimmick. That wore off quickly in terms of a console life & then they got passed up by much better tech. "Move" was too late in the game while Kinect stole the show by not needing any controller whatsoever. Nintendo tried to rely on their brand & 3rd party "shovelware". They got stagnant. WDW has already become stagnant in many locations around the resort. Not only stagnate, but literally falling apart in some places. NextGen is fine as a "long term" implementation but what I think some people on here are upset about is the stagnation that is being left to stagnate even longer now without any true return to the consumer. WDW appears to be covering the stagnation & known park issues with this band-aid that wasn't even meant for this type of wound. DME is not going to lure many new people into WDW. Privacy issues aside, will it be a welcome new KttW alternative? I think so, & I understand your point for it being relavent in terms of infrastructure but is it needed now & so quickly for this much? Any why market it so heavy if it's just a new room key?
Things aren't that simple, & that's why I didn't use the term "rides" in my post. Attractions was much more suited for this & to me that includes the monorail as well as water parks, WS, DTD, anything on the resort.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Who are you kidding? TWDC has absolute control over who gets to be RCID board members. Heck, every single RCID board member has intimate ties with Disney.
On more than one occasion, the Supreme Court has stepped in and thrown aside such "tricks" to get to the core of the issue. It's nice that you are willing to make such an emphatic statement as fact but I strongly suspect many "sound lawyers" would be willing to argue the case.
Disney wanted to create RCID exactly because Disney wanted the powers of a government. Well, they got it. Now they're going to have to own up to the responsibilities of a government.
Witchy Chick
Well-Known Member
Quoting from several pages back since it’s taken me this long to catch up on the thread…..
Maybe it’s just me, but I believe in a world where WDW, SW, Uni, Busch Tampa etc are in a “theme park arms race” – someone DOES in fact win…….the consumer. Competition is a wonderful thing for the consumer. WDW chooses to opt out of the competition.
To my knowledge, the Birthday buttons do not have the child’s name on it. If they do, I would “opt out” to have my child’s name on it……just a plain birthday button. And, personally, my kids are getting MouseEars, but no names on them.
On the “personalization” aspect of NextGen – MIL gave my kids backpacks with their names in 3” high lettering on the outside of the backpack. I never let my kids use those backpacks in public. Rule #1 of protecting your kids from potential creepers – do not have the child’s name emblazoned on anything. I do not want animatronics, Princesses, McQueen, or any CM at WDW to know and address my children by name. Ever.
Maybe it’s just me, but I believe in a world where WDW, SW, Uni, Busch Tampa etc are in a “theme park arms race” – someone DOES in fact win…….the consumer. Competition is a wonderful thing for the consumer. WDW chooses to opt out of the competition.
I guess they should have kept those Birthday buttons away from anyone under 13 all those years too...
Or forbid parents from spending that extra money on embroidering those mickey ears for their kids...
To my knowledge, the Birthday buttons do not have the child’s name on it. If they do, I would “opt out” to have my child’s name on it……just a plain birthday button. And, personally, my kids are getting MouseEars, but no names on them.
On the “personalization” aspect of NextGen – MIL gave my kids backpacks with their names in 3” high lettering on the outside of the backpack. I never let my kids use those backpacks in public. Rule #1 of protecting your kids from potential creepers – do not have the child’s name emblazoned on anything. I do not want animatronics, Princesses, McQueen, or any CM at WDW to know and address my children by name. Ever.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Who is marketing it heavy? Disney has said about 3 pages on the entire matter in the last 3+ years. And it's not just a new room key..
But there is so much more Disney adds to the foundation to make your vacation experience what it is.. that if analyzed separately people would freak 'why are they spending money there instead of new attractions?!?!' - that's the point. People gloss over the 'plumbing' of building something like WDW because there eyes are focused on where they should be.. and they just assume the rest. While Disney quietly spends way more money keeping the engine humming.
This is just an example of people applying scrutiny in an area that they normally do not look at even tho they directly benefit from it. The scales are crazy in this case - but the principles are the same.
SirLink
Well-Known Member
So if ... I don't opt in to use the App/tools and have my data sold to a third party ... I don't get access to something which I used to get for 'free'. OK.
Actually there isn't any duress about it ... Disney doesn't need my age, gender, email address, real address ... all they need to know is I paid cash for my ticket and they damn sure know they have to entertain and please me as a customer...when was it again when people stopped acting like customers and demanding more from companies...
Yes but Reedy Creek Improvement District is Disney and RCID is a government body. In Disney's case, the lines are blurred.
Disney can't run its own government with its benefits without also having its same restrictions. Could make for an interesting argument in court.
Great point. I am embarrassed that I did not even consider that. Will be interesting to see if lawsuits are made against TWDC or RCID if anything ever comes of it.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Control as a RESULT of other conditions - not directly. That's significant. They have control because they are only landowner. Their control remains because of this condition, not because they control it directly.
Funny - yet in 40+ years.. it hasn't happened. I guess all those lawyers are still assembling their cases..
You really should reread what I posted
"Sure.. but there is nothing at all there to somehow infer TWDC somehow becomes a government entity because of RCID. Disney is able to control RCID through the preconditions it setup in land ownership - not through direct links."
Disney no more becomes a government entity because of RCID then you would become a corporation because you were the major shareholder in a company.
Quite the contrary - they created RCID to keep government OUT. The way to do that was to create an entity that partitioned their space out of the control of other existing county government. RCID is simply a means to an end.
Lee
Adventurer
Kinda what I was getting at earlier.
If I opt out, I clearly am going to have a "lesser" experience than someone who has opted in, such as being subjected to longer wait times.
That being the case, shouldn't an "opt out ticket" cost less?
It's almost bribery. They'll give you extra benefits in exchange for you subjecting yourself to the data mining/tracking, etc.
To me, that's maybe the most important part if this whole thing. The obvious negative impact on guests who opt out.
flynnibus
Premium Member
1) Your access to FP+ is irrelevant to the statement of "FP+ does not exclude offsite visitors"
2) You again state something you think will happen (sold to third party) as fact - when in fact it is not known as fact
So nice tangent - but doesn't counter what I said or corrected.
Yes, because I'm sure every trip before this you've paid for your trip from Europe to WDW exclusively with cash and providing fake names and addresses for all your hotel reservations.
Soarin' Over Pgh
Well-Known Member
IWant2GoNow
Well-Known Member
I'll admit I was using hyperbole about it just being a room key. However, Disney WILL market this. A $2 billion dollar investment without marketing it as a "new experience" would be ridiculous. But Disney will market it, & will package it up to be some amazing new offering without saying exactly what the program is really for. I'm sure things like that happen in every day life already but I'm still dumb-founded they are spending all of this money on it.
But is it $2 billion worth of new stuff or are you just talking normal operating costs & things like upgrading software & new cash registers? I'm sure there are tons of things that inane people would say WDW is wasting money on instead of rides & attractions. Like updating lights to be more energy effecient & things of that nature... or in jest, maintenance, CMs for crowd control, or themed napkins.
flynnibus
Premium Member
You mean like being forced to create an account on a forum before you can view it's photos?
or being forced to create an account to use the website at all?
Or how about that sweepstakes entry for a chance to win?
Data collection as a trade for services or goods is a decades old practice.
Why single Disney out?
danlb_2000
Premium Member
I am in the automatic identification industry and I will say that I haven't heard about any part of Next Gen that I think would require some special technology. Everything we know they are doing so far could be done with off the shelf tech. I believe the high cost comes from two areas, integration and scale. Integrating all the bits and pieces together, and then tying into existing legacy systems like the reservation system, can be very difficult and very costly especially if the existing pieces were never designed with this integration in mind. Also there is a lot of cost implementing this on such a large scale. Take the RFID doors locks for example. Assume they spend, picking a number out of the air, $300 per room to install these locks. Multiply that by 26,000 hotel rooms and that is $7.8 million dollars for just that one item. There is also the scale of how many people will be using this at one time which would require considerable infrastrucutre to work reliably.
I will say that this is based on what I know of Next Gen now. They may roll out features later that would require some specially developed hardware.