Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[SirOinksALot]

They wouldn't REALLY force you to wear a bracelet 24 hours a day during your duration would they??? That would be absurd and not something I would do.

Has it not been established on the forum that the vast majority of people won't be given wristbands? That's probably step #1 toward a rational discussion.

I'll take it as a no then. The vast majority of people won't be given a wristband.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

 

[awoogala]

I'll take it as a no then. The vast majority of people won't be given a wristband.

I think everyone will be given one. This 1.5 billion was not spent so people can opt-out. I don't see them patenting a bracelet so they can give it to "some" of their customers. They also are replacing all paper tickets, and all paper fp. They MAY have an option of an rfid that is not a bracelet, more like a "pager", but everything is going rfid.
You don't get to opt out at other places that have rfid, like great wolf lodge.
One thing that I do find humorous, though, is the insane youtube videos being posted about rfid and the mark of the beast by some evangelical christians. Wonder if that will cause a stink for disney in the long run?

 

[SirOinksALot]

I think everyone will be given one. This 1.5 billion was not spent so people can opt-out. I don't see them patenting a bracelet so they can give it to "some" of their customers. They also are replacing all paper tickets, and all paper fp. They MAY have an option of an rfid that is not a bracelet, more like a "pager", but everything is going rfid.
You don't get to opt out at other places that have rfid, like great wolf lodge.
One thing that I do find humorous, though, is the insane youtube videos being posted about rfid and the mark of the beast by some evangelical christians. Wonder if that will cause a stink for disney in the long run?

I know they won't.

It is 100% certain that there will be non-bracelet options.

 

[flynnibus]

If you can't see the distinction between companies having personal information about me versus companies tracking me personally like a sex offender on parole, then there are no words I could write that would ever make you understand the difference.

There is a difference - Yes... but I'll repeat myself again...

What does that expose that you don't want people to know? The reality is sharing your phone number and email is far more impactful to you and your life than Disney monitoring where you visited.

Keeping history of what attractions you visited, or what areas of the park you visited is going to put you at risk, or expose something you don't want Disney to know.. how exactly?

You're trying to protect yourself from what exactly? What are you trying to keep close to the chest you don't want Disney to know?

The thing that has value to someone who isn't just tasked with running the theme park is data that is already being collected about you and shared - none of this is new. What is 'new' is the level of coverage and centralization Disney will have over that info. All of the location based stuff is only valuable to Disney operationally and in marketing its own services. Value to others besides Disney is going to be in your demographics and spending trends.. which again.. is stuff already out there. Disney's data will just be better.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Probably a stupid question, but I couldn't find an answer to it earlier.

What about people who have allergies? I have a severe allergic reaction to metal (re: jewelry, be it 24K, sterling silver, surgical steel, or that cheap crap you can get out of 25 cent vending machines... especially that stuff, actually) and I break out in a rash around the area of the item (say necklace; my entire neck will break out and last for DAYS). A few times I've broken out in hives and required medication to soothe the nightmare!

I've even tried coating (real!) metal with a sealant and that hasn't worked, either.I've also had similar reactions to wearing plastic jewelry for excessive amounts of time (over 6 hrs).

What exactly are these bands made of? Is there metal in them, on them? Are they removable?

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

-And yes, my significant other is VERY lucky I have an allergy to metal. He's off the hook for jewelry. Instead of that, I get awesome books and artwork.

 

[John]

I'm at a loss as to where your privacy is being invaded? They can and do keep track of where you spend money and what you buy. They track where you eat, where you stay and virtually everything they can. Yes, this will allow them to do so more efficiently and with more granularity to the data, but the data is and has been being collected for as long as they've run the parks.

If you've had the impression that what you do in a public place is in any way protected by privacy laws, you have been living in a dream world. WDW could assign a CM to following you through the park and manually record everything you do. It wouldn't be as efficient, but they'd get the same information. *Shrug*

Monty, I would intend to agree with you....BUT....here comes the big but....if they have already been doing this, why would they have to invest over a billion dollars.....to do it more efficently?

 

[WDW1974]

UGH!!! ... Do a little winter home improvement and things just explode. Thanks again to @Lee for posting my info when I couldn't import it into MAGICal format. Yes, you will get that fried rice.

I have sorta skimmed over what's been said and it's very interesting. Not too many insulting 'tin foil' hat comments, some folks more concerned over the cost than their privacy. Frankly, I'm bothered by both -- a lot.

I knew that Tom Staggs was more of the same when he switched jobs with Jay Rasulo and didn't put the brakes on NEXT GEN, but I also realize that when you spend what will likely be $2 billion before all is said and done it's pretty obvious that you expect a whole new revenue stream. A huge one. And that is something I've been saying long before this information was delivered to me.

Anyway, I'm gonna go read and comment on some comments (while I sit next to large piles of DLP and DL 2009 ephemera that somehow appeared where it shouldn't have!)

 

[WDW1974]

I wonder how quickly those "legal concerns" will arise when this goes completely public?

There already are and have been legal issues. Just because you haven't heard about them doesn't preclude the fact they exist.
I may be talking more about that in the days to come.

 

[WDW1974]

There are many things in the quote provided by 1974 (via Lee) that disturb me. Perhaps chief of which is:

Does this mean Disney intends to sell the information and technology to third party companies? Despite all my doom-and-gloom posts on NextGen, even I never thought Disney would be so brazen, so disgustingly money-hungry.

Don't know if they're going to sell the tech, Disney has been skittish in the past about doing so. But selling info to third parties is something I can practically guarantee. Might even help them gain sponsorships in the parks, something they have been struggling since the 1990s with.

But that's just a guess.

 

[WDW1974]

I especially like the part about how even guests paying cash and who are day visitors will also be forced to participate. That'll go over well.

That makes sense. (Dollars and cents too!)

Everyone will have an RFID chip imbedded in their admission media whether it's the bracelets that Disney wants or simply in a one-day ticket or an AP.

Now the smart-arses will simply say if you don't like it, then you don't have to go to WDW and the lines will be shorter for us or they'll find a rube to replace you. But the reality is that in this country if you don't like the way a company operates or its policies, being in a democracy and all, you have other ways of letting them know your displeasure.

I myself would like to make Liz Clark, Phil Holmes and even the lovely Pam Brandon eat an entire turkey sandwich and fries from Cosmic Ray's without having to vomit. But that's just me.

 

[WDW1974]

I need Lou Mongello to tell me how great this is.

He will stick to the script as always.

BTW, I see you have 20 'likes' here and 13 were earned on this one post. Congrats!

I think I'll go back and like it too!

 

[WDW1974]

I don't get freaked out about the big brother stuff -- if Disney wants to know where I am 24/7 while on their property, that's their prerogative.

But see your 'tude -- I believe -- is part of the problem in our country. It was why so many of our fundamental and basic rights disappeared after 9/11. ''I've got nothing to hide,'' was always the common refrain. Which is BS because we all have things to hide. If people had just told the government 'No, we're not taking our shoes off to board a plane'', we wouldn't have people being virtually strip-searched and children molested by the TSA today. People gotta stop being sheeple. ... You don't give up all your rights when you travel beneath those Pixie Dust encrusted archways, which are virtual death traps because of all the idiots who want to stop and have their pics taken near them ... but that's another discussion.

What really, really tees me up though, is what a colossal waste of a billion dollars this whole kerfuffle is. If Disney spent that billion dollars on attractions, you wouldn't need to spend a billion dollars tracking my every move to determine what gets me to come back -- and hint, its not targeted advertising. Having just returned from DLR for New Years its easy to see how effective a return on investment it is for Disney to simply build good rides. Shocking, but Walt knew what he was doing when he built Disneyland as a place families could spend time together, instead of a place they could be browsing their smartphones while being tracked around stale and often crumbling attractions.

OK, when you used kerfluffle you sorta had me back, but by the end of the graph I was like a fanboi in the presence of an Imagineer.

BRAVO!!! Very well said.

And, I know this has been said, but having finally seen it for myself, RSR is absolutely stunning. Mermaid, even on NYE, was a walk-on because while a good attraction, DCA doesn't try to deceive you into thinking it is the focal point of the park. And they don't waste fastfass on attractions that don't need it just so they can track who is using a fastpass. Small world layover, also, stunning -- an incredibly nice and well down and amazingly large amount of work.

Yes on all counts. Glad you enjoyed your trip.

 

[WDW1974]

I have tried typing out thoughtful responses 5 times. Failed 5 times. This information has left me speechless.

That is just the tip of the iceberg. I wish I could say more.

Yeah, it's strong stuff.
I would assume '74 will be in later to expound on it.

See above. It depends on whether I get the OK. But methinks this thread that already was being read heavily at TWDC just got a whole lot more attention, so I may have to be quiet for a bit ... or just talk about how Splash Mountain's refurb likely won't address any of the major show quality elements wrong with the thing.
But I also wish I could have gotten on MAGIC during the day, but I had quite the mess in the family room and halllway (and I'll be discussing that MAGIC with you in private!) .... it seems like everyone is sleeping early on this Saturday night, so I'll likely be heading off soon.

I know @flynnibus is wanting me to read his DLR observations, which I do wish to do at some point. And I've gotta believe the blogger thread is still going. Hopefully, the UNI rumor of the week has died down.

I think the media should be reporting on this.

I do too, but since Disney is mum on the project there isn't much to go after. Disney won't comment on this until they're good and ready and I guarantee you that my info will get a stern 'no comment'.

I posted Lee's statement on OrlandoUnited, and sent a comment/report of it to Orlando Sentinel (Hoping they get it )

I hate being a for attention, but the info was posted by Lee for me as I couldn't import it onto MAGIC for some reason (likely a bug in my system). But since @Lee is my Numero Dos in my campaign of destruction for all that WDW stands for, I guess it's OK that he gets some credit. Poor fella, even his wife prefers me! (no, you can't really blame her).

Oh, and unless the Sentinel has a new Disney/tourism beat writer, they're a total waste of time.

 

[WDW1974]

Paranoia and conspiracy theories aside... Who cares?

If Disney targets me for specific advertising based on what I do or don't do in their parks, I still have the option to ignore said advertising. There is no private information being collected that they can't get or glean elsewhere.

You are a cruel cold Canuck, Monty. This isn't simply my opinion (not talking about you, but I'm sure others agree!) ... My information comes from an impeccable source. There is no paranoia or conspiracy theories and using those words to try and remove legitimacy bothers me some.

This is about so much more than advertising. It is about Disney keeping you and your children under virtual surveilance for the entire time you are on property and following your every move and keeping a detailed record of it.

I'd love to know (and I'm no techie at all) the algorithms being used to determine which bits of data are significant (clearly spending, but they want to know when and why you spend so they can make you spend more and I'm sure they have pinpointed certain metrics to use) and which aren't as it isn't like people will be monitoring all of this, computers will. This all seems sorta like the premise of Person of Interest (Thursday nights at 9 p.m. on CBS, America's Most Watched Network, followed by the biggest hit of the new season in Elementary at 10 ... mighty good teevee!)

 

[WDW1974]

??? What's the context here? This is obviously written external to the company and could have just as easily written by anyone of us with the info we already had. 'Wheres the beef' as they say?

The beef is right there. Maybe you are used to flank steak and can't tell a fine filet cut when it is sitting in front of you. I sometimes am convinced you work in social media or new tech because you are so cocksure that because of everything from Twitter to NEXT GEN we are moving into a BIG BRIGHT BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW when so many see things so differently. And you're a smart guy, so it's not like arguing with one of the morons around.

???
Things don't add up. They push this 'there is no opt out' else it doesn't 'work' yet acknowledge lack of full planning for all customer types. Or do they really mean they needed to assume no opt-in for it to be functional.

I don't see how they can possibly survive the pr and customer issues without an anonymize feature to opt out. Privacy advocates here will skewer them, and Europeans used to much higher privacy standards will push back.

Privacy advocates barked at the fingerprinting that Disney likes to call 'biometrics' because that sounds nice and pure and harmless instead of getting printed like a criminal ... or ya know walking around with a tracking bracelet on, even one with Tink (like I assume you'd want!)

All Disney has to do is PR the thing to death, although in this case I think they're in for one helluva battle. Too many ways to track ... even the innocuous wifi (which will be amped up several levels from what you have now) can easily be used to track your wonderful toys that you'll want to use to check your wait times and log onto 'My Disney Experience' to book dinner for your trip in six months at Le Cellier.

???
One can easily twist no opt-in into half truths.

If anything this write up maybe sounds like market analyst coverage ? But the tone sounds off for that too. Maybe even just a reporter writing...

One can twist anything. I still remember hearing the term 'ethnic cleansing' for the first time two decades ago, it was a nice way to describe genocide in Europe.

Oh, and enjoy the guesswork because I, very obviously, have no intention of telling you (or anyone at TDO either guys, including your lawyers) where that doc came from. ... well, unless you want to replace Lou Mongello with the Spirit than all bets are off!

 

[Jane Doe]

You are a cruel cold Canuck, Monty. This isn't simply my opinion (not talking about you, but I'm sure others agree!) ... My information comes from an impeccable source. There is no paranoia or conspiracy theories and using those words to try and remove legitimacy bothers me some.

This is about so much more than advertising. It is about Disney keeping you and your children under virtual surveilance for the entire time you are on property and following your every move and keeping a detailed record of it.

I'd love to know (and I'm no techie at all) the algorithms being used to determine, which bits of data are significant (clearly spending, but they want to know when and why you spend so they can make you spend more and I'm sure they have pinpointed certain metrics to use) and which aren't as it isn't like people will be monitoring all of this, computers will. This all seems sorta like the premise of Person of Interest (Thursday nights at 9 p.m. on CBS, America's Most Watched Nework, followed by the biggest hit of the new season in Elementary at 10 ... mighty good teevee!)

A few have stated, like Monty, that all this info can be gathered quite easily nowadays and it doesn't affect us so why are we bothering now? Now that's a fair comment if the new wristbands are only for data collecting but it's quite clear that $2bn isn't being spent for this purpose alone. Simple stock taking in shops shows what people are buying (and this includes those mysterious 'cash buyers), hotel occupancy figures show where people are stopping and the length of queues at attractions shows what people are wanting to experience whilst there. Couple that with an online survey and even a daily look onto WDW forums and that is all the data you really need, and for a blooming' lot less time and money than this project has run up.

 

[WDW1974]

WDW survived the "PR nightmare" when the biometrics scans were ranted against in the same manner. "OMG they're fingerprinting me and sharing it with the CIA!" was the inanity of the day. They'll comfortably survive this not matter how much '74 stirs the paranoiac pot.

There's nothing illegal being done or even suggested by Disney that I can see. But "haters gonna hate".

@Monty ... dude, what exactly do you think I hate? Disney? Stupidity? Mindless devotion to a BRAND? Vinylmation (of which I now own 12 )? Lou Mongello? Every loser in O-Town with a Disney site? Lousy coffee like they serve at WDW? Canadians? C'mon, at least let me know what it is that I am hating ...

 

[WDW1974]

My goodness, the endless permutations this could lead to.

Imagine driving past the Chevy dealership in your hometown a couple weeks after your WDW vacation and you get a text inviting you in for cookies and punch so you can check out the Camaro you lingered over at Test track.

Or you're looking at a new toilet plunger in Home Depot when you're texted to go to aisle 6 to pick up some Sylvania light bulbs because you watched Illuminations twice in the same week.

It's going to be Magical, absolutely Magical....

I know this post is going to get lost, and I'm partially to blame spending the 2 a.m. hour largely posting what likely will be 24 posts in a row.

BUT ... you nailed this. You do NOT know how much you nailed this. How close to what the actual results if this gets fully implemented will be, but you are soooooo much on the right path and no one has come close to stating this or even hinting at it.

Well done.