Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[WDWFigment]

I respectfully disagree as there is a stark difference in treating your guest like they are on house arrest and targeting ads based on search history. I don't wear google around my wrist and let them tag along. When I search google or use their product they reserve the right to utilize that. Disney does too but they are taking it a bit far it seems.

As someone else pointed out, Google doesn't just track you when you actively choose to visit their site. If you're using the internet, even outside of Google's "house," you're being tracked by Google. That's the cyber version of Disney tracking what you're doing at Universal, the grocery store, your house, etc.

I'm not saying that I am comfortable with what Google is doing or what Disney is doing, but I would say what Google is doing is definitely taking it further than Disney. The only way to opt out of what Google is doing is to stop using the internet. Most people reasonably cannot do that. You can escape Disney's monitoring by not visiting Disney. I don't think it should have to come to that, but it's easier than not using the internet.

It seems to be the physical (shackle/house arrest bracelet) element with which a lot of people are taking issue. I wonder how much thought Disney gave to that, as I wouldn't be surprised if that's a distinction a lot of people make between Disney's data mining and others' data mining. The physical element of the bracelet and what it represents is a strong reminder that you're being "watched," whereas other data mining operations are much more passive.

 

[GenerationX]

I collect, analyze, and report on IT data for a living. If this initiative progresses similarly to what I've seen, the initial concerns are ensuring data quality, tweaking how data is tagged, and establishing baselines. You can also do some preliminary pattern analysis to explain what happened and start to notice exceptions. The real benefit is in the predictive power of the data. Management always wants to have better and more accurate forecasting systems and the ability to run What If scenarios (then, based on levers at their disposal, to change the baseline predicted outcomes). I'm a freak, I know, but access to that level of data and tasked with how to improve WDW profit based on the data is a job I would love to have.

 

[GoofGoof]

Somebody already posted the privacy policy. Disney cannot sell your info to another company. Spirit's text was talking about Disney selling the concept/technology to other companies.

Yes! For all the data mining already going on, you'd think companies would be better at it. I looked at a bunch of digital cameras on Amazon, bought a digital camera on Amazon, and then get e-mails for the next three months: "Great Deals on Digital Cameras!". Generally when someone buys a digital camera, they stop shopping for digital cameras, Amazon!

This is a big and important distinction. Many people on here are assuming that Disney will be selling data on your personal habits while at WDW to other companies. Whether you eat fast food, play golf, drink Sprite, etc.. A personal report on the Cosmic Commando family. I agree with your opinion that it's unlikely that Disney would sell information this way. I haven't seen the privacy policy, but if it's spelled out there we probably don't have much to fear anyway. They most definitely could sell aggregated data to other companies. For instance if Coca Cola wanted to know how many people at WDW were buying soda, vs water vs iced tea and wanted the data sliced by age, gender and income level they could buy that info from WDW. While still useful data for Coke it would not give away anything personal about individuals.

 

[Lil Fort]

As someone else pointed out, Google doesn't just track you when you actively choose to visit their site. If you're using the internet, even outside of Google's "house," you're being tracked by Google. That's the cyber version of Disney tracking what you're doing at Universal, the grocery store, your house, etc.

... or the doctor, or the lawyer... Heck one day I replied to a thread here about favorite drinks at WDW and I started getting ads about rehab clinics. How's that for targeted advertising! Hic!

It seems to be the physical (shackle/house arrest bracelet) element with which a lot of people are taking issue. I wonder how much thought Disney gave to that, as I wouldn't be surprised if that's a distinction a lot of people make between Disney's data mining and others' data mining. The physical element of the bracelet and what it represents is a strong reminder that you're being "watched," whereas other data mining operations are much more passive.

I agree about the bracelet. From another thread I was perusing here, I saw that it is even waterproof and has a battery (that means that it isn't just passive RFID, but also active RFID giving it a much larger range and the ability to actively broadcast information). They definitely don't want their guests to have any reason to ever take it off (if it is even removable without ruining it) and the fact that it is active RFID vs. passive RFID is interesting to say the least. They don't just want to know what you are doing, but where and when you are doing it and you won't have to tap it on a reader for them to know. It will definitely be a strong reminder that you are being watched and besides, I don't think it will match with any of my outfits...

 

[michmousefan]

They definitely don't want their guests to have any reason to ever take it off (if it is even removable without ruining it) and the fact that it is active RFID vs. passive RFID is interesting to say the least. They don't just want to know what you are doing, but where and when you are doing it and you won't have to tap it on a reader for them to know. It will definitely be a strong reminder that you are being watched and besides, I don't think it will match with any of my outfits...

I would imagine that the basic resort guest will think the wristband is a nifty door key, a ticket and a device to conveniently pay for food and merch. Once they find out that the system is tracking you like a mouse in a maze...every breath you take, every move you make... then that's where you'll see the pushback come from.

 

[Clever Name]

Where do you think the College Program workers live?

Vista Lay?

It boggles my mind that anyone would buy DVC.

I fixed that for you!

 

[Lil Fort]

I would imagine that the basic resort guest will think the wristband is a nifty door key, a ticket and a device to conveniently pay for food and merch. Once they find out that the system is tracking you like a mouse in a maze...every breath you take, every move you make... then that's where you'll see the pushback come from.

I agree (and I'm suddenly seeing images of Sting in black and white playing an upright bass... yes, I'm a child of the 80's ). I think that the important take-away from this whole thing is that Disney definitely isn't the first to track users in order to mine data and they certainly won't be the last. Will their efforts be successful in increasing their revenue? Possibly. Will it improve my experience when I visit WDW? Maybe. Do they understand that for this to be a success, you can't have one without the other? I don't know. But if not, then the price of their failure will be a tough (and expensive) pill for them to swallow. Google's data mining/targeted advertising is successful because it is unobtrusive and holds value for those that choose to click on their ads. NextGen is obtrusive and I have yet to see what real value it will bring for guests other than a chance to make my 'vacation' as structured and rigid as a day full of appointments at the office. Can you tell I'm not a fan?

 

[RunnerEd]

I would imagine that the basic resort guest will think the wristband is a nifty door key, a ticket and a device to conveniently pay for food and merch. Once they find out that the system is tracking you like a mouse in a maze...every breath you take, every move you make... then that's where you'll see the pushback come from.

I don't think the average person realizes how much they are being tracked already. If they did, there would have been a revolt already. That aspect of NextGen doesn't bother me as much as the price tag. $1.5 - $2 billion for this?

My mind can't make the connection to anyone who thinks this is a better idea than maintaining parks and attractions, providing unique and enjoyable dining experiences, and building incredible new attractions/lands. They have 2 incomplete parks (one that is a hot mess), 1 stale park that can't won't keep the film in an E Ticket clean and has an entry plaza that is named for the future but reflects the past, and the most visited park in the world that needs FLE levels of love in 4 other lands. To add insult to injury, if a guest is staying at a $200-$400 (or more) per night resort, at the end of the day, they (we) are asked to wait an hour to be hearded into an overcrowded, uncomfortable, inefficient bus to get back "home" (even if we're staying on the monorail).

I'm certainly glad that I canceled our trip to "the world" and booked at "the land" this summer. Thank goodness DVC has more options than WDW. Of course, there are 3 quality parks within a short drive of Kidani Village.

 

[toolsnspools]

I saw the original post within a few minutes of @lee posting it (Thanks @Lee), and I've had most of the day to think it over. Now that I've gotten over the initial irritation, and collected my thoughts...

My local example of extreme data mining is Kohl's dept stores. I swear they fire off the next set of targeted mail before I walk from the checkout lie to the door. If I'm shopping before 10 am I may even get the new discount coupons that day. I'm actually ok with this. After all, with 3 kids, I buy a lot of clothes, and if they want to target me with specific coupons to keep me coming back, more power to them. I go there to buy things, and they reward me with coupons for buying more things. I want them to be good at selling things because that's what I expect from our relationship.

On the other hand, there's Disney. I go there to escape the cold weather and relax on vacation. I like the fact that I can let them entertain my family, and I don't have to come up with 1,000 things to keep us occupied while I'm on vacation. They are a vacation resort and I like what they provide for a vacation experience. I don't go there to buy things, but of course I do plenty of that while I'm there. Vacations aren't free, so I'm ok with that to an extent. Here's where I have trouble with NGE. It's not built to provide a better vacation experience. It's built to target me with advertising and push more "experiences" at me. Is my vacation going to be enhanced by receiving an offer for the Wild Africa Trek when I'm in AK? How about getting sent a reminder to buy tickets for the MNSSHP when I'm at MK in October? From the sounds of it, they will now be trying to sell me a place to sit for the fireworks, extra Fastpasses when rides are busy, and every other "experience" they determine that I've showed an interest in in my last 3 trips. Quite honestly, getting these things pushed on me when I'm on vacation is irritating. They're not going to enhance the vacation whatsoever, in fact, they'll diminish it. If they are going to drop that kind of money on enhancing a vacation resort, they should be looking to improve the vacation experience. They have spent too much time and money focusing on how to extract money out of my wallet and not enough time making sure that my experience was as enjoyable as possible, so that I'd want to come back.

 

[ScoutN]

I have to question the use of the term GPS in this. There is nothing to indicate that these bracelets will have GPS capability. We have seen the FCC application and there is no mention of GPS in there. Also, a small, self contained device like this would not have enough power from it's internal battery to power a GPS radio for any length of time. Now with enough readers in the park they could effectively achieve the same thing but that still doesn't make it GPS.

Maybe GPS was misconstrued with signal triangulation. That it how cell location was pulled prior GPS capability. I can easily see tracking easily as what reader(s) most recently passed over.

 

[ScoutN]

We actually bought so few points via resale that our annual savings on Annual Passes are more than our dues. This year, with the $399 PAPs, the difference was even greater than normal. Of course, Disney is still getting our money on the PAPs and on the dues (and a number of other things, but the point remains that what Disney receives from DVC owners could be a lot less than the potential revenue it receives from satisfied DVC owners).

It boggles my mind that anyone would buy DVC from Disney directly these days. The only way it offers remotely good value for money (putting aside the whole issue of the state of WDW) is paying cash on the resale market.

I figure we will buy more DVC points at some point. Disney barely exercises ROFR these days, and I suspect the resale market will bottom out once Disney starts selling the Grand Floridian. At that point, we'll probably buy again.

What I see as most intriguing as I'm sure @ParentsOf4 does as well is tracking. What will they do when DVC members check in and spend zero dollars in property.

 

[xdan0920]

Thr

What I see as most intriguing as I'm sure @ParentsOf4 does as well is tracking. What will they do when DVC members check in and spend zero dollars in property.

There is a very good chance I will be doing just that in April. The more I think about it, the less likely I become to spend any money on WDW property. We will be using VWL as a base, but that is probably going to be the extent of our usage of WDW.

 

[WDWFigment]

What I see as most intriguing as I'm sure @ParentsOf4 does as well is tracking. What will they do when DVC members check in and spend zero dollars in property.

My bet is that they're already seeing far more of that than they'd like, and the $399 PAP is the first response to try to curb that.

In many cases, I suspect DVC members are the "whales" of Walt Disney World. The DVC members who aren't financially irresponsible had to have had enough disposable income to make the purchase in the first place, and having them visit during...say...Food & Wine Festival without going to Epcot is a big blow. It wouldn't surprise me if those whales average high enough daily spending when on property to justify WDW giving them PAPs if it would ensure keeping them on property.

 

[tracyandalex]

I'm trying to follow the money.
Can just the booking enhancements and FP+ create enough revenue to justify a nearly $2Billion investment? I doubt it, at least not in the short term.
Do they hope to profit from the sale of the data they accumulate? I would assume so.
How much added revenue will be generated by being able to better target their advertising?

They see a huge pile of money out there that NextGen will allow them access to.
The mystery, to me, is how are they gonna get it.

This has been my exact thought for a while now. It seems like a huge investment with no clear sufficient return. Perhaps we can somehow get our hands on the super secret memo explaining where the new money is coming from.

 

[awoogala]

Is this sentence key? "To reach the profit targets and overarching design goals set for this project, as well as export the technology and its fruit to other companies, Disney understood early on that there could be no opt-out for any guest."

"Export the technology...to other companies"

That sounds a lot like Disney's getting out of the entertainment business and into the surveillance-for-hire business.

Would that justify the investment? If they could sell this technology to Walmart, for instance? I honestly don't know how much of the tech is proprietary, but it stands to reason they see a profit to be made by encouraging other companies to follow their lead.

Disney's former higher ups that helped with biometrics were already snatched up by the government.
Disney already sells themselves as the best at what they do, and sells teaching conferences to other companies, so they can learn to do it "the disney way".
This just seems like the next step. Disney can even sell it to Uni next!

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Disney can even sell it to Uni next!

They'd rather build amazing attractions while Disney wastes money!

 

[awoogala]

As someone else pointed out, Google doesn't just track you when you actively choose to visit their site. If you're using the internet, even outside of Google's "house," you're being tracked by Google. That's the cyber version of Disney tracking what you're doing at Universal, the grocery store, your house, etc.

I'm not saying that I am comfortable with what Google is doing or what Disney is doing, but I would say what Google is doing is definitely taking it further than Disney. The only way to opt out of what Google is doing is to stop using the internet. Most people reasonably cannot do that. You can escape Disney's monitoring by not visiting Disney. I don't think it should have to come to that, but it's easier than not using the internet.

It seems to be the physical (shackle/house arrest bracelet) element with which a lot of people are taking issue. I wonder how much thought Disney gave to that, as I wouldn't be surprised if that's a distinction a lot of people make between Disney's data mining and others' data mining. The physical element of the bracelet and what it represents is a strong reminder that you're being "watched," whereas other data mining operations are much more passive.

I agree. I think if they had been smart, a necklace option/pendant on lanyard would have been brilliant. they have already trained members to wear a lanyardd, either for tickets, or pins.. No one would have given as much of a stink. Of course, you can take a necklace off...

 

[rudyjr13]

They wouldn't REALLY force you to wear a bracelet 24 hours a day during your duration would they??? That would be absurd and not something I would do.

 

[awoogala]

Also- how long until someone smart figures out how to make a nice rfic leather over-bracelet to block the signals? hmmm. maybe I need to start a new business!

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Also- how long until someone smart figures out how to make a nice rfic leather over-bracelet to block the signals? hmmm. maybe I need to start a new business!

Now that's creative thinking!