Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[Animaniac93-98]

They could sell it to any number of people.
Like a retailer for example. Disney could say, "Here is info on the Smith family. Mother, father and two kids, a boy of 6 and a girl of 9. They buy lots of DVDs, like fast food, and drink Sprite. The kids seem to enjoy Disney characters and toys. The father is a golfer who enjoys a beer or two after a round. The mother drinks coffee, and enjoys high-end dining. They rented a car while traveling, and stayed in a deluxe resort. They have two small dogs who enjoy canned dog food."
And it could go on and on. Providing information to help other companies target the Smith family.

Sounds like a lot of effort to target just the Smith family. It's easy to do for one, but multiply it by millions and you have a very time consuming (and continuous) data mining effort.

I assume part of the program includes methods to categorize persons/groups based on purchasing habbits (such as "Guests Who Booked More Than One Round of Golf")?

 

[TalkingHead]

Luckily, there's no house of ill-repute on Disney property and I certainly would never be caught dead in such a place!

Where do you think the College Program workers live?

 

[kittybubbles]

As I said earlier. If I go to a Disney Park it's cash only. And don't be surprised if my fancy bracelet is found on a squirrel. Since I wouldn't need a pass for regular FastPass anymore, my pass would be in a locker.

I don't actually care about the data mining. I am just a malcontent.

And I hope Disney can track me up at Universal Orlando Resort. Because that is where I'll be. You know for new and exciting attractions.

I only say this based on recalling someone once mentioning that WDW sent them a survey asking them about half day park tickets/entertainment only tickets (no rides)...that sort of stuff. I could see this as being a way to have guest keep their ticket/wristband with them. If every ride had a reader at the entrance and you needed to have a ticket (even in your wallet) to not get stopped from entering the queue, Disney would be in effect causing everyone to opt in....to folks who think this can't be done or it requires battery power in the RFID chip, well the FL turnpike's Sunpass system reads a chip in a sticker (it does use the car's windshield as a sort of antenna) in a car driving by at 50+ MPH....I think a lot of areas of Miami have gotten rid of toll booths and you either have a SunPass or you get a bill in the mail from the photo they snap of your license plate.

Anyway, my point is that the readers they install can be tuned to pick up all the signals in the area w/o needing you to touch the reader with the wristband. While I do not imagine that something like this would be in the first phase, I do think they are considering more a-la carte pricing with this project which would be a way to keep the RFID chip with you.

I also imagine they have been testing their tracking abilities w/ every guest that uses the 'my Disney app' in the parks today...leave the app running after checking wait times or what not....sign onto their in park WIFI and they know where your divice is....

 

[TalkingHead]

I have not heard anything about next-gen that would lead me to believe that it is using any kind of proprietary technology that other companies would need to buy from Disney. No piece of this system seems to be anything special, the tricky part is implementing it on the scale Disney is going and integrating everything together. Walmart was actually an early adopter of RFID, they started pushing it almost 10 years ago in their supply chain, but had a very hard time getting enough suppliers to buy into it.

Then I'm mystified why the person who Lee quoted would mention Disney "exporting the technology...to other companies." Maybe s/he simply meant the data that Disney collects.

 

[Monty]

Then I'm mystified why the person who Lee quoted would mention Disney "exporting the technology...to other companies." Maybe s/he simply meant the data that Disney collects.

Actually, that's the part that makes the most sense. Disney's NextGen is a technology suite that, if proven, could readily be sold to other companies. The hardware may not be proprietary, but the software and data analysis automation may very well be a lucrative package. The trick will be proving that it works and is scalable to various businesses' needs.

 

[Longhairbear]

The huge difference is that Disney will require me to carry an RFID device tracking my every movement, like a released criminal being monitored with an electronic device.

Disney handcuffs!

 

[Darth Sidious]

Actually, that's the part that makes the most sense. Disney's NextGen is a technology suite that, if proven, could readily be sold to other companies. The hardware may not be proprietary, but the software and data analysis automation may very well be a lucrative package. The trick will be proving that it works and is scalable to various businesses' needs.

If that is the case it is a good idea. I will withhold further comment until more details emerge. We simply are jumping to conclusions (I'm guilty of this).

 

[asianway]

I'm not sure if you understand how a timeshare works but any money I "give" to Disney is to pay for upkeep and maintenance at cost. Since I bought a resale, Disney isn't making a single penny of profit from me personally from my DVC membership.

However, Disney doesn't just want resort money from its guests. It wants ticket money, food money, merchandise money. etc. By me spending my money elsewhere, not at Disney, Disney is losing all that potential revenue. When other DVC members do the same, Disney is losing their potential revenue too.

I hope that makes it a little clearer.

There is a management fee within the dues-like 10%. In addition, they are able to shift certain shared costs to the condo like say a percentage of the GMs wages at a mixed use property like the Contemporary-but nothing like the upfront purchase

 

[unkadug]

Folks, if you use Apple/Microsoft/Google, and 99% of everyone posting on this thread uses one or more of the big three, your lives have already been data-mined to a greater degree than anything Disney will ever do.

If you truly believe that buying an Angus cheeseburger from Pecos Bill or a plush Nemo from MouseGears or going on Splash Mountain at 10:00am on a Tuesday morning is going to net an additional e-mail from Walmart or snail-mail offering from All-State, get over yourself. You're not that important in life, no, not even to Disney.

Why is it that every post from condomman seems to warrant a fire extinguisher?

 

[danlb_2000]

Actually, that's the part that makes the most sense. Disney's NextGen is a technology suite that, if proven, could readily be sold to other companies. The hardware may not be proprietary, but the software and data analysis automation may very well be a lucrative package. The trick will be proving that it works and is scalable to various businesses' needs.

I really doubt this is something Disney would sell to other companies. I would bet that this system integrates with a lot of other systems at Disney to the point where it would be very difficult to package in a way that would make it usable to companies. Even if they could do it, I doubt this is a business that Disney would want to get into especially since the most likely customers for this would be Disney's competitors. I actually work in the IT industry and have developed a couple small scale data collection systems for my company and I often think how much work it would be to make one of my systems usable for other companies and it would end up being a considerable amount of work.

 

[WDWFigment]

I'm not sure if you understand how a timeshare works but any money I "give" to Disney is to pay for upkeep and maintenance at cost. Since I bought a resale, Disney isn't making a single penny of profit from me personally from my DVC membership.

However, Disney doesn't just want resort money from its guests. It wants ticket money, food money, merchandise money. etc. By me spending my money elsewhere, not at Disney, Disney is losing all that potential revenue. When other DVC members do the same, Disney is losing their potential revenue too.

I hope that makes it a little clearer.

We actually bought so few points via resale that our annual savings on Annual Passes are more than our dues. This year, with the $399 PAPs, the difference was even greater than normal. Of course, Disney is still getting our money on the PAPs and on the dues (and a number of other things, but the point remains that what Disney receives from DVC owners could be a lot less than the potential revenue it receives from satisfied DVC owners).

It boggles my mind that anyone would buy DVC from Disney directly these days. The only way it offers remotely good value for money (putting aside the whole issue of the state of WDW) is paying cash on the resale market.

I figure we will buy more DVC points at some point. Disney barely exercises ROFR these days, and I suspect the resale market will bottom out once Disney starts selling the Grand Floridian. At that point, we'll probably buy again.

 

[MickeyPeace]

I'm not sure if you understand how a timeshare works but any money I "give" to Disney is to pay for upkeep and maintenance at cost. Since I bought a resale, Disney isn't making a single penny of profit from me personally from my DVC membership.

However, Disney doesn't just want resort money from its guests. It wants ticket money, food money, merchandise money. etc. By me spending my money elsewhere, not at Disney, Disney is losing all that potential revenue. When other DVC members do the same, Disney is losing their potential revenue too.

I hope that makes it a little clearer.

I must have missed the part where you said you bought resale. In that case your money is going to Disney on behalf of someone else who originally bought DVC. They are still getting money, not losing it.

Of course Disney doesnt just want resort money, they want tix, food, merch etc. I understand that clearly. My point was that if everyone did not buy DVC, if it did not exist or was a failure, then Disney would really lose out if you and others spent your money elsewhere. They would not get guests money period. They are making a killing on DVC and still raking in the bucks even with disgruntled DVC members.

Anyone got an estimate on how much money TDO is bringing in with DVC alone on WDW property?

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Why is it that every post from condomman seems to warrant a fire extinguisher?

Why do you think I have him on ignore? I think he's JT04 and Jimmy Thick's secret trifecta lover.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

My goodness, the endless permutations this could lead to.

Imagine driving past the Chevy dealership in your hometown a couple weeks after your WDW vacation and you get a text inviting you in for cookies and punch so you can check out the Camaro you lingered over at Test track.

Or you're looking at a new toilet plunger in Home Depot when you're texted to go to aisle 6 to pick up some Sylvania light bulbs because you watched Illuminations twice in the same week.

It's going to be Magical, absolutely Magical....

Somebody already posted the privacy policy. Disney cannot sell your info to another company. Spirit's text was talking about Disney selling the concept/technology to other companies.

Perhaps Monty your response is more driven by the messenger than the content of the message. But ultimately Disneys drive to have me buy more e wont work as Ill be elsewhere experiencing new less stale things. But having worked in the field untill recently most data mining fails cause no can agree what best to do with it. Even Amazon and Ticketbastard are constantly getting it wrong and they have complete visibility of my purchasing habits.

Yes! For all the data mining already going on, you'd think companies would be better at it. I looked at a bunch of digital cameras on Amazon, bought a digital camera on Amazon, and then get e-mails for the next three months: "Great Deals on Digital Cameras!". Generally when someone buys a digital camera, they stop shopping for digital cameras, Amazon!

 

[Cosmic Commando]

The whole big brother idea is totally irrelevant to me. The real problem here is what an absolutely stunning misappropriation of resources this is.

NextGen is not going to have even a small amount of positive guest impact. In fact, everything we know about it so far looks to be the exact opposite. It is all negative impact. They have spent BILLIONS of dollars, and the only return on investment, for guests, is a worse theme park experience.

And...

Those billions could have been spent so many different ways. Ways that would have improved the resort. Ways that would have improved the guest experience.

"guests"

Not anymore. Just call us customers.

QFT. I don't care that we're getting $1.5B worth of RFID readers and back-office data mining. I care that we're getting that instead of quality attractions, or gosh, even transportation improvements would be better than this boondoggle.

 

[unkadug]

Why do you think I have him on ignore? I think he's JT04 and Jimmy Thick's secret trifecta lover.

That made me laugh out loud.

I much prefer spelling it out over the innocuous "LOL"

 

[Lil Fort]

I respectfully disagree as there is a stark difference in treating your guest like they are on house arrest and targeting ads based on search history. I don't wear google around my wrist and let them tag along. When I search google or use their product they reserve the right to utilize that. Disney does too but they are taking it a bit far it seems.

What a lot of folks don't realize is that Google doesn't just mine data from their own search engine, but rather from a very large part of the internet. I am a web developer and the hubbs and I run a web-based business as well. One thing that is important to most every website owner is to know how much traffic their site is getting and where it comes from. But most website owners don't have the time or the knowledge to effectively mine the data on their own. Have no fear! It's Google to the rescue! Webmasters slap a couple of lines of code on their pages and ta-da! They suddenly have access to statistics that show them how many people visited their site, how many views each page received, and how visitors found their way to their website (whether it be via search, ads, a link on another site, or by typing the URL in the address bar). Google offers this service to webmasters free of charge and it is used by many, many websites. Does Google do it out of the goodness of their own heart? Heck no!! They use the information to target their ads to what you have been looking at on the internet, even when you don't use their search engine to find what you are looking for. Now you know how they can target their ads to what you are interested in even if you didn't search for it on their search engine.

As someone who is a consumer of data that has been mined in this matter, I must say that I am not shocked by what Disney is doing. I am not thrilled with it either, don't get me wrong. There is a lot to be concerned about. I am just more concerned with FP+ and the effect that it will have on my future vacations. I'm a planner in everyday life (must be the developer/business owner in me) and when I go on vacation I would rather be spontaneous. I will most likely not use FP+ and the effect that FP+ has on my next Disney vacation will play a big part in determining whether it is my last Disney vacation.

Now... If you are listening Google (and I know you are...), I'd like some ads with discounts on my next Disney vacation.

 

[cbconglom]

QFT. I don't care that we're getting $1.5B worth of RFID readers and back-office data mining. I care that we're getting that instead of quality attractions, or gosh, even transportation improvements would be better than this boondoggle.

Agreed. If somehow they spent 1.5 billion and only got new monorail trains I'd be happier

 

[GoofGoof]

Anyone got an estimate on how much money TDO is bringing in with DVC alone on WDW property?

Quick math:
Bay Lake Tower sold 5.7 million points. The price ranged from $90 to $165 now. A conservative estimate is an average of $110 per point so total revenue from sales = $627,000,000. The cost to build BLT = $140,000,000. Gross margin of $487,000,000. Even if sales and DVC overhead costs are around 25% of sales that's still a net profit of $330,000,000. It took them about 3 years to sell all of the points and more than triple their money. The beauty of the investment for Disney is the annual dues pay for maintenance, upkeep and future capital improvements and updates needed at the resorts. Based on this you can see how lucrative building and selling DVC is. When GFV start selling at at least $165 and possibly go to $200 per point the profits will be even greater.

 

[Darth Sidious]

What a lot of folks don't realize is that Google doesn't just mine data from their own search engine, but rather from a very large part of the internet. I am a web developer and the hubbs and I run a web-based business as well. One thing that is important to most every website owner is to know how much traffic their site is getting and where it comes from. But most website owners don't have the time or the knowledge to effectively mine the data on their own. Have no fear! It's Google to the rescue! Webmasters slap a couple of lines of code on their pages and ta-da! They suddenly have access to statistics that show them how many people visited their site, how many views each page received, and how visitors found their way to their website (whether it be via search, ads, a link on another site, or by typing the URL in the address bar). Google offers this service to webmasters free of charge and it is used by many, many websites. Does Google do it out of the goodness of their own heart? Heck no!! They use the information to target their ads to what you have been looking at on the internet, even when you don't use their search engine to find what you are looking for. Now you know how they can target their ads to what you are interested in even if you didn't search for it on their search engine.

As someone who is a consumer of data that has been mined in this matter, I must say that I am not shocked by what Disney is doing. I am not thrilled with it either, don't get me wrong. There is a lot to be concerned about. I am just more concerned with FP+ and the effect that it will have on my future vacations. I'm a planner in everyday life (must be the developer/business owner in me) and when I go on vacation I would rather be spontaneous. I will most likely not use FP+ and the effect that FP+ has on my next Disney vacation will play a big part in determining whether it is my last Disney vacation.

Now... If you are listening Google (and I know you are...), I'd like some ads with discounts on my next Disney vacation.

I am aware of this... I run a pretty decent sized website and I did the coding myself. Google analytics and Adsense are on most sites. I get that but I still find them to be different because of the methods. However, as I said in my most recent post I am going to refrain from judging more until more details emerge.