Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[EpcotFanForever]

... from a quickee holiday visit to WDW and UNI this week.

Let's start with the stuff you likely don't know.

EMH. You like it? You don't? You are ambivalent? Well, doesn't matter because plans are to eliminate it. First step was cutting night hours down from three to two. Look for that to drop more and nights to slowly get eliminated. They'll cut back mornings lastly as they are more popular, but look for DAK to lose a morning soon as well.
show isn't long for the park. Let the WoC rumours commence.

EPCOT truly looks sad at the holidays with such little decoration. And c'mon guys, can't you at least keep all the lights on the tree working? Or maybe add some more pyro back to RoE (tag nonwithstanding)?

New Fantasyland? ... Where do I even start. Maybe tomorrow or Monday. ... But while what's there looks detailed and nice (and it does), can I also state that The Port of Entry at IOA is just as detailed or more and that ET is a better ride in 2012 than Little Mermaid is? Oh, I just did.

I was planning not to comment here, but your comments are so on target!

After my recent visit, I was so disappointed that I will not be going back to WDW - selling my DVC points (I was a charter buyer back when park passes were free) and moving on. It's a shadow of what it once was, and I'm so done with it.

1) ROE has been turned into a hollow shell. Was amazed at the downturn in pyro, and the general lack of quality. The pyro barge was blowing clouds of unignited propane for 1/3 of its burn. When it finished, we all stood there and said "that's it?" Welcome to the new "Walmart Disney World".

2) The complete lack of crowd control in the castle hub during Wishes was scary and dangerous. It is a major disaster waiting to happen. In DCA they go overboard because of California laws, but it's safe. At MK, it is mind-blowingly unsafe and a major accident is alnost certain at some point. Overheard one cast member to another "yeah it's out of control, but stop stressing".

3) Mermaid is lipstick on a pig. The queue and exterior is amazing. The ride is at most a "meh". The rockwork is dangerous, and I saw kids climbing everywhere. It's again only a matter of time before we see a fall and a major legal brouhaha because some kid was injured badly. Expect the queue to be lined with nets before long.

4) The stresses of FP+ will be overwhelming. Disney is expecting the paying vacationer (who is dumping a ton of money) to be at specific places at specific times. But the transportation system is at the whim of the company. They make no promise to get you anywhere you need to be in a timely manner - it's just stand and wait and hope. This is the broken promise of a Disney vacation, and I expect it to become a huge issue.

Thanks for the insight '74. Waiting for the implosion to begin.

 

[ScoutN]

You're kidding, right? With the exception of Animal Kingdom (because of not much to do at night), all parks should stay open at least until Midnight (if not later) during the summer. If Disney is charging me premium prices to go during the summer I should get the parks to stay open late. They used to stay open until at least Midnight until they decided that cutting corners and nickel and diming was SOP.

Don't take that guy seriously.

 

[articos]

There is already apprenticeship programs in place. It is an 4 year apprenticeship program through the Union and Disney. They don't teach that much basically it is OJT. And it doesn't pay much either until you complete the apprenticeship program and then there is a 5 year progression to reach the top pay. They have been hiring a lot of apprentices lately.

The other classification is an Facilities Support Craftsworker which is a basically an unskilled laborer which does basic things like changing light bulbs or unclogging toilets or basic room calls. They even make less money and not too much room for advancement.

Most maintenance depts used to be all Journeyman workers, then it started with resorts, they started replacing skilled workers with unskilled ones, so now many have the skilled workers just supervising the unskilled ones and using outside contractors to do the majority of the work.

And they are doing the same thing with Attractions maintenance, they are replacing the Journeymen with more apprentices and FSC's. They are saving a lot of money on labor that way.

Interesting, Alek. They spend a lot of time complaining about not being able to find qualified labor, but it always comes down to dollars. Sadly.

 

[Alektronic]

Interesting, Alek. They spend a lot of time complaining about not being able to find qualified labor, but it always comes down to dollars. Sadly.

Yes, just like this year, having record profits and no pay raises just a stupid bonus. But management will get pay raises.

 

[Todd H]

Get rid of EMH? I swear Disney acts like they don't want my money.

 

[celluloid]

Stopped reading when you compared FLE to port of freaking entry. Ladies and gentlemen, delusion at its very finest.

I totally agree! I have discovered many things that are great to look at and feel in New Fantasyland that were all new to me when it first soft opened. Yet, going to Islands of Adventure years later walking down Port of Entry I still find new details and inside jokes. From Different soundtracks in the restrooms of all places(yes, make up your own jokes there) to the custom scores throughout the rest of the areas. Tons of hidden things to discover and much kinetic activity going around. Port of Entry is far more immserive in my opinion too.

Glad to know you find someone with an opinion delusional.

 

[GoofGoof]

Wow, I must finally be understanding TDO's brain.

Is there a really big echo in there??? While you are in the brain wandering around can you see if there is some explanation for the mess that is PI?

 

[flynnibus]

Couldnt agree more, but isnt this yet another nod to the stroller patrol? The kiddies are then snugged in their beds by then

I don't think so - I think it's a nod to their operational costs.

The last two full family trips we took, my youngest was 4 and 6.. and she absolutely loved being in the park past midnight. Just how things settled.. we'd find ourselves starting in the parks about 10+am.. and then finish at MK midnight or later. Now I know not everyone is the same, but I don't think late night is focused on adults.

and no, my kids were not those screamers being dragged around being run into the ground

You know you could go visit that really cool adult entertainment place over there called PI....oooppps oh yea......maybe over there at Boardwalk....oh sorry, no trans. ahhhh there is Splittsville.So evryone head on down to Splittsville.

With so much of the theme park experience geared towards nighttime.. I still want stuff in the parks too! I like riding BTMRR at night.. seeing fireworks.. seeing shows like F!... etc. I rarely goto the MK in the day even.. saving it for the night cap after doing another park during the day (especially since the others all close so early!).

I personally have no interest in wandering DTD as how I would finish most nights. I have little interest in going to clubs while at WDW as a family. WDW has so much.. I'd like the secondary parks open till 9 or 10.. and MK open till 12 during mainstream times. Use the 1-3am closings for special things or special offerings

 

[COProgressFan]

I
2) The complete lack of crowd control in the castle hub during Wishes was scary and dangerous. It is a major disaster waiting to happen. In DCA they go overboard because of California laws, but it's safe. At MK, it is mind-blowingly unsafe and a major accident is alnost certain at some point. Overheard one cast member to another "yeah it's out of control, but stop stressing".

Agree with this completely. DL seems to have an army of CMs to help move and direct traffic before, during and after fireworks shows and Fantasmic. A lot more folks were deployed after the hub-centric Remember show premiered in 2005, when poor guests were calling 911 fearing they were stuck or going to be crushed by te crowds.

At the MK, better traffic control with more CMs is badly needed, or a herding/stampede event could certainly occur. Do we really want the MK hub to be like black Friday stampedes at Walmart?

 

[flynnibus]

Flynni, I don't disagree that the ticket prices are out of hand, but I just don't think the parks should need to be open after midnight, unless you're going to hold opening until 12n. From June-August, when it's really crowded/hot, 11p or 12m is fine, like I said, but that also doesn't have to be every night from June-August. Leave MK open til 12m two or three days a week, and close at 11p the rest of the week, especially if the park is open at 8a. That's only for peak, though. The rest of the year, be sensible with ops hours

It's about perspective.. you are taking it from the employee POV.. I'm taking it from the customer POV. From my chair.. if Disney needs more hours - maybe they should be better staffed? If they were staffed like they had been, and couldn't get things done.. I'd have more sympathy. But as long as the attendance demand is there, Disney should be maintaining those late hours IMHO. I would support taking attractions offline for a morning/etc if there are specific things that need more effort. But most of the time I would expect such things to be scheduled anyways and could be scheduled on evenings where things aren't so back to back.

And besides.. if WDW had enough attractions, they wouldn't need to keep the same park open late each night, but could rotate.

 

[flynnibus]

Of course, as they expanded the later hours, they cannibalized a lot of the night time options.

That's an interesting thought...

How do you convince your kids to hang out at the hotel to watch a movie.. when the alternative is the MK?

I remember doing non-park events back in the early eighties because there was only the two parks. We would do the campfire at FW.. canoeing.. water ski'ing.. rent the boats, etc.

Disney is in a bit of a catch-22.. competing with themselves basically.

 

[flynnibus]

I have no love loss over F! at DHS. It was always the red headed step child to its older sibling in DLR. I think any attempt to put World of Color there would be more like Pond of Color. Just like F! suffers from the inability to ave the Mark Twain and Sailing Ship Colombia, WoC would suffer from not having all of the extra that the Paradise Pier location gives to it. They would be better off trying to develop a show unique to DHS but I have better chances of winning the lottery than having that happen.

Any world of color show could only be done 'right' at EPCOT or DTD IMO.

Sitting 'above' the fountains would negate much of their awe.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

EPCOT truly looks sad at the holidays with such little decoration. And c'mon guys, can't you at least keep all the lights on the tree working? Or maybe add some more pyro back to RoE (tag nonwithstanding)?

I see Epcot hasn't changed in terms of the holidays for little decorations from the time I went there in 2010. The only difference was the lights working at the time. People now know why I have no plans of going to WDW for the Holidays for the next 5 to 10 years. The only way I would came back is If Disney cleans up their act for lack of decorations at some of the parks including Epcot. I have been comparing TDO to the grinch when it comes to Christmas decorations matter of fact.

 

[TalkingHead]

New Fantasyland? ... Where do I even start. Maybe tomorrow or Monday. ... But while what's there looks detailed and nice (and it does), can I also state that The Port of Entry at IOA is just as detailed or more and that ET is a better ride in 2012 than Little Mermaid is? Oh, I just did.

A new spirited observations thread? Christmas has come 48 hrs early. Thanks, Santa!

I've reevaluated ET -- took a spin on it a couple weeks ago and realized it's a much bigger ride than I remembered it being. I suspect it may have been tuned up a little since my previous ride. Or my good feelings toward it might've had something to do with where I sat. I was in the front row, but yeah, it's a high quality dark ride, especially with the forested queue.

 

[John]

I don't think so - I think it's a nod to their operational costs.

The last two full family trips we took, my youngest was 4 and 6.. and she absolutely loved being in the park past midnight. Just how things settled.. we'd find ourselves starting in the parks about 10+am.. and then finish at MK midnight or later. Now I know not everyone is the same, but I don't think late night is focused on adults.

and no, my kids were not those screamers being dragged around being run into the ground

Could be but as we both know you are the exception rather then what most guest do.



With so much of the theme park experience geared towards nighttime.. I still want stuff in the parks too! I like riding BTMRR at night.. seeing fireworks.. seeing shows like F!... etc. I rarely goto the MK in the day even.. saving it for the night cap after doing another park during the day (especially since the others all close so early!).

I personally have no interest in wandering DTD as how I would finish most nights. I have little interest in going to clubs while at WDW as a family. WDW has so much.. I'd like the secondary parks open till 9 or 10.. and MK open till 12 during mainstream times. Use the 1-3am closings for special things or special offerings

Again, No doubt that there are families such as yourself. But I would think that the majority of guest who are out and about after 10 pm are mostly adults. Judge Flynni we both know what I was implying and what I was talking about.....and it was your family in general.

 

[ChrisFL]

I was planning not to comment here, but your comments are so on target!

After my recent visit, I was so disappointed that I will not be going back to WDW - selling my DVC points (I was a charter buyer back when park passes were free) and moving on. It's a hollow shell of what it once was, and I'm so done with it.

1) ROE has been turned into a hollow shell. Was amazed at the downturn in pyro, and the general lack of quality. The pyro barge was blowing clouds of unignited propane for 1/3 of its burn. When it finished, we all stood there and said "that's it?" Welcome to the new "Walmart Disney World".

I enjoyed it the past few times Ive seen it actually, everything seemed to be working ok just a couple of weeks ago.

2) The complete lack of crowd control in the castle hub during Wishes was scary and dangerous. It is a major disaster waiting to happen. In DCA they go overboard because of California laws, but it's safe. At MK, it is mind-blowingly unsafe and a major accident is alnost certain at some point. Overheard one cast member to another "yeah it's out of control, but stop stressing".

THIS, definitely. When I was a CM (main st. merch) I actually witnessed a lady get run over by an EMV one night and I had to go grab a wheelchair from the front of the park for her. It is quite chaotic. [/quote]

3) Mermaid is lipstick on a pig. The queue and exterior is amazing. The ride is at most a "meh". The rockwork is dangerous, and I saw kids climbing everywhere. It's again only a matter of time before we see a fall and a major legal brouhaha because some kid was injured badly. Expect the queue to be lined with nets before long.

I've noticed this as well and I agree, its amazing how easily they made climing on the rocks for kids. Also, the games are fun, but the kids kept stopping to play them, slowing the line down.

4) The stresses of FP+ will be overwhelming. Disney is expecting the paying vacationer (who is dumping a ton of money) to be at specific places at specific times. But the transportation system is at the whim of the company. They make no promise to get you anywhere you need to be in a timely manner - it's just stand and wait and hope. This is the broken promise of a Disney vacation, and I expect it to become a huge issue.

Thanks for the insight '74. Waiting for the implosion to begin.

I'm really interested in seeing how this FP+ works out, so many rumors and speculation for so long, I just want to sit back and "remotely watch the fireworks" of this new system.

 

[flynnibus]

Again, No doubt that there are families such as yourself. But I would think that the majority of guest who are out and about after 10 pm are mostly adults. Judge Flynni we both know what I was implying and what I was talking about.....and it was your family in general.

In my experience... the park makeup that late at night was similar to what it was earlier in the night. Just my perception...

 

[TalkingHead]

Epcot's decorations have looked sad for several years now. Even before the LoW went away, they were scaling back the decorations -- so it's not a surprise, just a disappointment that the (alleged) worldwide leader in themed entertainment can't do more to spruce up their parks during a festive season.

 

[celluloid]

That's ok. As spruced up as Magic Kingdom is, they used to not charge you extra to see all of the Christmas version of the entertainment.

 

[TalkingHead]

2. There are 2 different types of artistic expression when designing coasters. Realism and Impressionism. If you are going to stick exclusively with realism, you are going to get a lot of mediocre coasters buried in mountains. With the impressionistic route you can acceptably go much bigger to satisfy the coaster fans while still providing acceptable themeing to get the artistic intention across. Dragons, and Manta are fantastic examples of this route. NEWSFLASH: I can still tell that BTMRR is a coaster and not an actual mine.

So well said. But to appreciate the impressionist approach, you have to have imagination and appreciate an aesthetic other than realism (the kind that gets sold as Joe Rhoede's vacation made Everest that much more successful). Kinda funny that it's the devout Disney fans who think realism is the only way to do something. You'd think they'd appreciate imagination, but there you have it.