Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[IWant2GoNow]

During the FP+ & DDP talks concerning spontaneity, I pictured one giant single file line for MK that they one day will create. Starting down MSUSA & left to AdvLand & weaving in & out of all attractions all the way around to TomLand (Not Staggs) & then winding into the gift shops on your way out. Just a constant stream of guests in, guests out. No chance for re-riding anything, meals are already pre determined & available to eat while standing in line. Trash cans placed beside the lines in the walkways along with port-o-johns, a few bridges added in place to so the lines can function above parade routes... On a ride during fireworks? Too bad. They could even save on operating costs by not running power to each ride until the first magical family gets to it first, then close them down as the last magical family rides the last for the day. Of course this means no one can enter the park after 3pm to assure everyone has the exact same experience but hey, guess you have to be THAT dedicated to get there early enough to experience it all.

 

[bhg469]

During the FP+ & DDP talks concerning spontaneity, I pictured one giant single file line for MK that they one day will create. Starting down MSUSA & left to AdvLand & weaving in & out of all attractions all the way around to TomLand (Not Staggs) & then winding into the gift shops on your way out. Just a constant stream of guests in, guests out. No chance for re-riding anything, meals are already pre determined & available to eat while standing in line. Trash cans placed beside the lines in the walkways along with port-o-johns, a few bridges added in place to so the lines can function above parade routes... On a ride during fireworks? Too bad. They could even save on operating costs by not running power to each ride until the first magical family gets to it first, then close them down as the last magical family rides the last for the day. Of course this means no one can enter the park after 3pm to assure everyone has the exact same experience but hey, guess you have to be THAT dedicated to get there early enough to experience it all.

I'm certain this is not far from what they are hoping for. I am still very depressed at the thought of not being in Epcot until midnight.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

What kind of comment is that? I never said I couldn't read a EMH weekly schedule and figure out the hours, It's just cumbersome for me personally to plan around, and I have a right to that opinion, I'm not looking to blame. Nice to feel a warm welcome for a newbie on the boards.

I understand what you're referring to, icecreamrules. (Love your handle, btw. Three Twins Ice Cream rocks!)

But to be fair to 74, you did state in your post that "...different EMH are always hard to keep up with" instead of simply stating they were "cumbersome." Something being "always hard" is different than something being "cumbersome." The former implies that it's almost impossible to accomplish while the latter simply infers a hassle factor. They're two different conditions.

I don't find the EMH schedule difficult to remember or manage. But it is a hassle if you want to go to the EMH park that day but don't want to deal with the added crowds. So the EMH does require a bit more planning at the beginning of your stay if you wish to avoid the EMH parks on those days.

EMH does takes away the some of the spontaneity of a WDW vacation. But I don't see FP+ adding it back in, since those are also scheduled in advance. FP+ still requires advanced planning on the part of the resort guest, which I find "cumbersome" like EMH. For me, they're both negative features, not positive.

 

[harveyt0206]

During the FP+ & DDP talks concerning spontaneity, I pictured one giant single file line for MK that they one day will create. Starting down MSUSA & left to AdvLand & weaving in & out of all attractions all the way around to TomLand (Not Staggs) & then winding into the gift shops on your way out. Just a constant stream of guests in, guests out. No chance for re-riding anything, meals are already pre determined & available to eat while standing in line. Trash cans placed beside the lines in the walkways along with port-o-johns, a few bridges added in place to so the lines can function above parade routes... On a ride during fireworks? Too bad. They could even save on operating costs by not running power to each ride until the first magical family gets to it first, then close them down as the last magical family rides the last for the day. Of course this means no one can enter the park after 3pm to assure everyone has the exact same experience but hey, guess you have to be THAT dedicated to get there early enough to experience it all.

Wait....does the line weave through the restrooms too? I only like the Adventureland restrooms. Will that be a problem?

 

[IWant2GoNow]

Wait....does the line weave through the restrooms too? I only like the Adventureland restrooms. Will that be a problem?

Of course they do! Just not all of them. Port-O-Johns will be sparse & used for emergency tinkles only & for those who don't want "magical" bathroom time. There will be one restroom stop per land. Why do you think the Tangled bathrooms are so elaborate?

 

[TinkerFairy1]

EMH. You like it? You don't? You are ambivalent? Well, doesn't matter because plans are to eliminate it. First step was cutting night hours down from three to two. Look for that to drop more and nights to slowly get eliminated. They'll cut back mornings lastly as they are more popular, but look for DAK to lose a morning soon as well.

The reason? Resort guests will be getting a perq (using Queen's English here) in the form of extra FP+ so that will allow them to ride as much as the extra time allegedly does. It's all about eliminating labor hours for ops, while telling guests it's the amount of rides they get, not when they get them that matters.

Oh no!! We love EMH! My favorite part of the trip is getting to enjoy being in the parks when they are almost empty. However, I do understand that it must be a pain for the cast members when there is approximately one family wandering around at 1:45 in the morning like they literally have nothing better to do than slowly meander...

 

[Goofyernmost]

We need something like the dragon-welcome they use over at Stupid Guest Tricks.

Have you noticed lately that they have everything except stupid guests tricks? All I can figure is that generally the guests are all very well behaved now. Hooray, I guess!

 

[icecreamrules]

WDW1974 said: ↑

If you can't read a weekly schedule and figure out what the hours are for a park, then you have no one to blame but yourself. It ain't exactly rocket science.​

I understand what you're referring to, icecreamrules. (Love your handle, btw. Three Twins Ice Cream rocks!)

But to be fair to 74, you did state in your post that "...different EMH are always hard to keep up with" instead of simply stating they were "cumbersome." Something being "always hard" is different than something being "cumbersome." The former implies that it's almost impossible to accomplish while the latter simply infers a hassle factor. They're two different conditions.

I don't find the EMH schedule difficult to remember or manage. But it is a hassle if you want to go to the EMH park that day but don't want to deal with the added crowds. So the EMH does require a bit more planning at the beginning of your stay if you wish to avoid the EMH parks on those days.

EMH does takes away the some of the spontaneity of a WDW vacation. But I don't see FP+ adding it back in, since those are also scheduled in advance. FP+ still requires advanced planning on the part of the resort guest, which I find "cumbersome" like EMH. For me, they're both negative features, not positive.

Splitting Hairs.
Honestly I don't think it mattered which word I typed, 74's retort assuming I was slinging blame because I apparently could not comprehend the schedule (regardless of it either being "always hard" or "cumbersome" ) was unhelpful, snarky and crude, especially since I am a rocket scientist. (snicker) Not being able to read and figure out a schedule vs having a preference not to have to bother with the hassle of it - two different things.

EMH is not my cup of tea. I find it crowded on those days and not worth it for the few rides, another factor of trying to plan around and avoid in my trips; where I have always enjoyed FP and had great success using that. I am wary of FP+ but see it potentially as the lesser of two evils. I have only been to WDW 5 times, and wish I lived closer to access it more.

I have not yet tried Three Twins Ice Cream, but I see they sell it at my local Fresh Market, perhaps I will pick some up. I am a Sweet Frog addict myself. Cheers!

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Splitting Hairs.

I don't think so. Spirit is an excellent writer, so precise language is important to him. Your language was anything but.

Honestly I don't think it mattered which word I typed, 74's retort assuming I was slinging blame because I apparently could not comprehend the schedule (regardless of it either being "always hard" or "cumbersome" ) was unhelpful, snarky and crude, especially since I am a rocket scientist. (snicker)

You were the one who used the phrase, "always hard," which clearly implies some kind of difficulty in understanding and/or implementing EMH. It was a natural inference to draw.

And if you feel Spirit's post was "unhelpful, snarky, and crude," well... you're entitled to your opinion. It might have been a bit too direct and slightly aggressive; he could have been a smidge more tactful. But chastising him for being "unhelpful" ... what's that about? I didn't realize from your original post that you were seeking some kind of assistance from the other posters.

Why did Spirit need to be "helpful" to you? You seemed rather decisive about EMH and FP. Perhaps what you're really upset about is that he didn't respond in agreement. Maybe that's the "helpful" attitude you were expecting?

Not being able to read and figure out a schedule vs having a preference not to have to bother with the hassle of it - two different things.

You just made my point for me. Thank you.

"Not being able to read and figure out a schedule" would be "hard."

"Having a preference not to have to bother with the hassle of it" would be "cumbersome."

Two different conditions.

I am wary of FP+ but see it potentially as the lesser of two evils.

I believe that many if not most on these boards, myself included, would disagree with your assessment. FP+ is going to become a nightmare for the casual, off-property guest.

Attractions that didn't have lines or lengthy queues in the past will acquire them because of FP+. On-property guests who managed to reserve their favorite rides in advance will suffer brain implosion when those attractions go down during their ride reservation time, especially when cast members refuse to honor that FP+ time slot later on and tell them to go into the stand-by line. Which, if the ride goes down for several hours or longer, would be the only fair way to deal with it, given the enormous volume of guests FP+ will handle. And the collision of FP+ with ADR is going to be such a nasty nightmare, I would hate to be the cast members forced to deal with guest resolutions.

Too much time waiting for food to arrive at the table will spill over into FP+ reservations, while slow-moving FP+ lines and/or attraction down times will spill over into ADR time slots. FP+ is only going to work if everything is up and running in a timely fashion. And with the declining by degrees deterioration still going on at WDW, this is going to be an effn nightmare to implement without guest dissatisfaction going through the roof.

I have not yet tried Three Twins Ice Cream, but I see they sell it at my local Fresh Market, perhaps I will pick some up. I am a Sweet Frog addict myself. Cheers!

If you like strawberry ice cream, I feel Three Twins is the best. There's a nice tang and hint of tartness from the added balsamic vinegar. The sea salted caramel is also good.

 

[GoofGoof]

I
Attractions that didn't have lines or lengthy queues in the past will acquire them because of FP+.

Sorry, I know I am just taking 1 small comment from you post, but I have heard this from others too and it interests me. I don't know how many FP+ reservations will be given out per ride. If the number is similar to the number distributed now with fast pass then in theory the standby lines should remain unchanged. If there are less FP+ reservations given out per ride then the standby lines should in theory move faster even though they could have more people in them. If there are more FP+ reservations than current fast pass then the standby lines will probably take longer.

My theory is there will be the same or less FP+ reservations given out per ride. The reason I suspect this is that a lot more attractions will have FP+ including rides without current FP, meet and greets and parades and possibly even counter service meals. You are limited to a certain number of FP+ reservations per day and they will be spreading those out over more attractions. It would not make sense to load up the popular rides with more FP reservations than are currently available when you can "direct" people towards less popular rides.

 

[lazyboy97o]

@GoofGoof, why else would Disney expand the queue for The Haunted Mansion and make it more distracting if its relatively short, and quick moving lines were going to remain? No need for that unless you expect a change.

 

[Bolna]

I somehow get the impression that many people only view the possible changes FP+ will bring from their own touring perspective without realising what the bigger picture is and what consequences this will bring.

Yes, I think it would be wonderful if I could ensure to have a Soarin FP for the afternoon when I want to be at Epcot. That would be great for me personally. But the reality is that not every single visitor to Epcot on that day will be able to get their preferred time for Soarin, how can I be sure to get one? I also never really took part in EMHs, so theoretically I wouldn't mind if they disappear. But then, people who previously used them will most likely now spend less time outside of the parks during the normal hours, so in the end this will lead to more crowded parks during the normal hours.

FP+ is not about guest satisfaction, it is about treating guests as inventory that ought to be distributed as evenly as possible to the available resources. It is all about streamlining the operation.

 

[GoofGoof]

@GoofGoof, why else would Disney expand the queue for The Haunted Mansion and make it more distracting if its relatively short, and quick moving lines were going to remain? No need for that unless you expect a change.

This is a good point and you might be correct. But, the interactive queues are supposed to make waiting in line less of a drag and more fun. Disney was revolutionary in making their queues interesting and "hiding" the true length of the line by making them part of the experience as opposed to a standard amusement park which just had posts and ropes that zig zagged back and forth and were boring. I always loved the queue at Splash Mountain even though a lot of times you were in it for 60 minutes, POC is another good one. This could just be the next step in advancing the technology for line queues to make them even better. There are always going to be lines no matter what system is in place and waiting in line is a significant portion of a trip to WDW. They are claiming that they are trying to enhance our experience. Who knows, maybe it is just because the lines will be longer.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But why put your resources into bettering a queue that, as of now, does not typically get very long lines except on the busiest of days? Maybe twenty years ago I'd have believed it was just for show (but then I doubt they'd have touched what I argue is the first themed queue, but that's another discussion). That just is not how The Walt Disney Company, much less Walt Disney World, operates.

 

[ParentsOf4]

My theory is there will be the same or less FP+ reservations given out per ride. The reason I suspect this is that a lot more attractions will have FP+ including rides without current FP, meet and greets and parades and possibly even counter service meals. You are limited to a certain number of FP+ reservations per day and they will be spreading those out over more attractions. It would not make sense to load up the popular rides with more FP reservations than are currently available when you can "direct" people towards less popular rides.

There will be some interesting changes with FP+.

First, I've read Disney warning that, at least temporarily, Standby lines (a.k.a. queues) will become longer with FP+. Since Disney controls how many FP and FP+ are handed out, I cannot understand this unless Disney ultimately intends to distribute more FP+ than FP. The rules of queuing theory should apply. It's possible that, like all human queues, Disney expects more people eventually will "give up" on the Standby lines and simply not enter the queue.

For those who might be unfamiliar with the concept, think of it this way. The advertised Standby wait time for Peter Pan is 5 minutes. At 5 minutes, nearly everyone who wants to ride Peter Pan enters the line. As more people enter the line, the Standby wait time increases. As it increases, fewer people will enter the queue. In this sense, human lines tend to be self-regulating. Disney may be expecting more people to eventually give up waiting in Standby lines.

I suspect Disney intends to increase the number of FP+ distributed so that, ultimately, the Standby lines will be longer. Since onsite guests will be able to book FP+ before offsite guests, Disney now has a financial incentive to make Standby lines longer. Since onsite guests get first shot at FP+, it makes Disney's resort rooms more valuable.

Second, the concept that FP+ is "free" is insulting. Disney knows demand for its popular attractions far exceeds supply. As already noted, onsite guests will (as a whole) get better FP+ than offsite guests. If people want access to these better FP+, they will have to pay Disney for onsite rooms. It's like advertising "Buy one, get one free". It's not "free"; it's built into the price, just like DME is not "free".

Disney is adding FP+ to attractions that don't need them so they can artificially increase supply to keep up the façade that FP+ is "free". This might help more evenly distribute crowds since guests will feel obligated to use their "free" Stitch's Great Escape FP+ while today, a FP for SGE isn't even needed. But by giving offsite guests worthless FP+, Disney can claim "FP+ is free" and "everyone participates in FP+".

 

[PhotoDave219]

We all know the reason the Yeti hasn't been fixed is that being the parks only headline "thrill" ride, they simply can't take the ride down for the extended time it would take to make the fix.

Its my understanding that there are issues with the foundation. I'm not sure thats something that can be fixed easily.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, I think it would be wonderful if I could ensure to have a Soarin FP for the afternoon when I want to be at Epcot. That would be great for me personally. But the reality is that not every single visitor to Epcot on that day will be able to get their preferred time for Soarin, how can I be sure to get one? .

How is this any different than FP classic? I can't be sure I will get a Soarin fast pass now and I won't know when my return time will be until I reach the machines and see the posted time.

IMHO the biggest issue people will have or do currently have with FP+ is they don't want to have to book "reservations" for rides in advance. I understand that feeling and I don't necessarily like it either.

 

[Bolna]

How is this any different than FP classic? I can't be sure I will get a Soarin fast pass now and I won't know when my return time will be until I reach the machines and see the posted time.

IMHO the biggest issue people will have or do currently have with FP+ is they don't want to have to book "reservations" for rides in advance. I understand that feeling and I don't necessarily like it either.

What I was trying to say is that it seems that many people think that booking ahead with FP+ will bring them that certainty that they lack today.

 

[Hakunamatata]

IMHO the biggest issue people will have or do currently have with FP+ is they don't want to have to book "reservations" for rides in advance. I understand that feeling and I don't necessarily like it either.

I agree. Having to reserve FP in advance will make planning a trip harder in my opinion. What if you have booked dining at Epcot at Le Celliar and there are no FP available for Soarin or Test Track? Do you change that day to MK and rebook ressies, giving up that much coveted Le Celliar ressie?

The more you have to reserve, the less flex you have.

 

[GoofGoof]

There will be some interesting changes with FP+.

First, I've read Disney warning that, at least temporarily, Standby lines (a.k.a. queues) will become longer with FP+. Since Disney controls how many FP and FP+ are handed out, I cannot understand this unless Disney ultimately intends to distribute more FP+ than FP. The rules of queuing theory should apply. It's possible that, like all human queues, Disney expects more people eventually will "give up" on the Standby lines and simply not enter the queue.

For those who might be unfamiliar with the concept, think of it this way. The advertised Standby wait time for Peter Pan is 5 minutes. At 5 minutes, nearly everyone who wants to ride Peter Pan enters the line. As more people enter the line, the Standby wait time increases. As it increases, fewer people will enter the queue. In this sense, human lines tend to be self-regulating. Disney may be expecting more people to eventually give up waiting in Standby lines.

I suspect Disney intends to increase the number of FP+ distributed so that, ultimately, the Standby lines will be longer. Since onsite guests will be able to book FP+ before offsite guests, Disney now has a financial incentive to make Standby lines longer. Since onsite guests get first shot at FP+, it makes Disney's resort rooms more valuable.

Second, the concept that FP+ is "free" is insulting. Disney knows demand for its popular attractions far exceeds supply. As already noted, onsite guests will (as a whole) get better FP+ than offsite guests. If people want access to these better FP+, they will have to pay Disney for onsite rooms. It's like advertising "Buy one, get one free". It's not "free"; it's built into the price, just like DME is not "free".

Disney is adding FP+ to attractions that don't need them so they can artificially increase supply to keep up the façade that FP+ is "free". This might help more evenly distribute crowds since guests will feel obligated to use their "free" Stitch's Great Escape FP+ while today, a FP for SGE isn't even needed. But by giving offsite guests worthless FP+, Disney can claim "FP+ is free" and "everyone participates in FP+".

That is the first I had heard of Disney officially stating one way or another that lines would increase or decrease. I missed that one somehow, but If that's the case then my question is answered. More FP+ per ride will make longer standby lines. There must be a significant number of current guests not using fast pass now. If you are going to materially increase the number of attractions that offer fast pass and increase the number of fast passes distributed on current rides while limiting users to 4 FP+ reservations each that means a lot of current guests must not be using the system.