Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[Bolna]

First, you can't trust the WDW site. I logged in tonight to connect with a friend for an upcoming trip and it first wouldn't let me do it and then finally showed my resort ressie, but none of the meal ressies.

But, yes, you can always find somewhere to eat. That is not the point. I am quite sure I could book Captain Jack's or Turf Club for NYE ... maybe even a Hollywood and Vine ... or a Marrakesh ... quite likely a Wave unless people think that will give them free reign to park at the Contemporary and not show up and walk to the MK.

There are always options, but that doesn't mean they'll fit in terms of time/place/cuisine/price.

Last week, I made an ADR one night and two nights prior to dining and got exactly what I wanted. But it was lunch (always easier) and it was resort and DD locales (also always easier).

Well, I agree on the new website. It seems to have lots of flaws still. But are you sure that your friend connected you with the dining reservations. It seems that one has to pick for every meal who is going to eat there besides the "lead reservation". He might not have done that.

My point was only that even with the current system of DDP and ADRs bookable at 180 days you can still be spontaneous about your day at WDW. Yes, you might have to make some compromise with regard as to where, when and what you eat. But if you want to have no plans, you can still do that.

 

[jakeman]

Sure it does.

DDP puts more people in the restaurant than would likely have eaten there to start with. The beauty of the DDP is it convinces people to upsell themselves.. they eat more because it's 'free' and by doing so they in turn tell themselves its a 'deal' and they 'saved money' - because they compare to what they spent.. vs what their dining habits would have been WITHOUT the plan. Put free dining in the mix.. and it all accelerates to ludicrous speed.

In addition, the larger ADR window increases the chances of having slots filled. A reservation is more likely to turn up for their table vs 'looking for a walk-in'. The ADR increases chances of running at full capacity.

You would just have throngs of unhappy guest crammed into every quick serve on property. I'm sure you have seen the number of people in a quick serve during dinner even with DDP?

My statement stands. Ten million extra people per year since DAK opened and no significant rise in the number of restaurants.

Those people have to eat some where.

It simply can't go back to the old way because of the number of people on property now. That's TDO's fault for shuttering restaurants (I can think of three off the top of my head).

What I would like to see would be for DDP to go away, expansion of the menus back to their late '90s early 00's glory days and a stagnation of prices for a while (I'm not naive enough to wish for lower prices). However, I like the ADR system and use it to my advantage, so I see no problem in the way that works now.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

If you can't read a weekly schedule and figure out what the hours are for a park, then you have no one to blame but yourself. It ain't exactly rocket science.

Agreed. Ignorance in this age of easy information access is a conscious choice.

 

[flynnibus]

My statement stands. Ten million extra people per year since DAK opened and no significant rise in the number of restaurants.

Ten million extra 'clicks' in Disney lingo doesn't mean 10 million more people on property.

Those people have to eat some where.

And the fact there may be more people around.. doesn't magically increase the amount of money people have to spend on meals. Increased crowds doesn't suddenly make people flock to $30/plate meals. Or suddenly cause them to desire table service vs counter service as their preference. Your pretense is basically these places are crowded because there is no where else to go.

That may work for the B/C dining locations... but not for the top dollar ones. And for the B/C locations.. it's another example of how DDP serves Disney - it encourages people to goto restaurants even if they didn't want to... and try more locations. In effect.. it lets restaurants be subpar and still attract people because their choices are finite. A percentage of people will end up there because 'there was no where else..' or 'why not..'

 

[John]

Wasnt there always some type of DDP at WDW? I think where it went off the rails is when they started to offer it for free. IMO, If they stopped this and made it an exclusive "upcharge" things might turn a little. Maybe this whole NG FP thing will do that. Maybe this will be the next "free" perk WDW will offer. Which is more inline with something that is "free". It dosnt cost WDW a penny. SO it really is "free"

Watch how many people choose to buy the DDP when it suddenly becomes more then $1,200 add on to a visit. Those numbers will go down.

 

[flynnibus]

Wasnt there always some type of DDP at WDW? I think where it went off the rails is when they started to offer it for free

Yes, even back in the late 70s and early 80s.. there were all-inclusive offerings offered. The difference in any system like this is how dominate the usage of it is. If the all inclusive is a small minority, it doesn't have a huge impact. When the 'all inclusive' becomes the dominate consumer.. the business must adapt itself to the realities that program offers them. If the 'all inclusive' limits the business' revenue.. they can accept for that for say.. 10% of their plates. But if now 75% of their plates are limited.. they can't sustain that without adapting their business to fit within the limits of the 'all inclusive' plan.

It applies to dining.. it applies to admission media.. etc.

Offering the program in bulk and free... skews the usual usage patterns.

 

[John]

Yes, even back in the late 70s and early 80s.. there were all-inclusive offerings offered. The difference in any system like this is how dominate the usage of it is. If the all inclusive is a small minority, it doesn't have a huge impact. When the 'all inclusive' becomes the dominate consumer.. the business must adapt itself to the realities that program offers them. If the 'all inclusive' limits the business' revenue.. they can accept for that for say.. 10% of their plates. But if now 75% of their plates are limited.. they can't sustain that without adapting their business to fit within the limits of the 'all inclusive' plan.

It applies to dining.. it applies to admission media.. etc.

Offering the program in bulk and free... skews the usual usage patterns.

If they could reverse this one thing at WDW....you would see a lot of happy guest. Lets face it, while on vacation food is a huge factor in some peoples experience. Especially the older guest. I think they could have scrapped the entire NG program and do this. IMO they would have as many satisfied guest. There will be some moaning from some guest who say they cant visit without it ( thats a whole different thread). But I think if they did this it would be a brilliant move. They already have conditioned most guest that they need the DDP to have a great WDW experience. Now you just will have to pay for it. No more freebie.

And they didnt have to invest 1.5 billion to do it. This is another way that Disney could have tweaked the system to "squeeze" more money out of the exsisting guest.

 

[flynnibus]

If they could reverse this one thing at WDW....you would see a lot of happy guest. Lets face it, while on vacation food is a huge factor in some peoples experience.

Certainly - back when it was actually a resort.. and not a collection of theme parks.. dining was one of the attractions. But doing so would require putting effort into presentation and atmosphere in lieu of short term profiteering. And given the company's diligence with show quality in the last decade.. I don't see it happening.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

One thing to point out is that no matter what, with an average of over 100,000 guests on property daily the more popular restaurants are going to be difficult to get in. ADR system or not. At least with the ADR system if there is a "must do" restaurant for you, you can book it and be sure you get in. The main problem is the lack of a block of held tables for walk ups, and low staffing based on advanced ADRs. There is nothing more infuriating than being turned away from a clearly half empty restaurant because Disney understaffed the place because that days ADR count was low.

I'm not in the restaurant industry, but I'd have to imagine that something similar could happen at any restaurant anywhere. All restaurants have to decide how much staff to schedule. If they weren't doing it on ADR counts, it would be on hotel occupancy or "it's a rainy Tuesday in February, who wants to go home?". If unexpectedly large crowds show up, the restaurant can overwork the servers to a degree, but eventually they would decide they couldn't take any more people to preserve good service even though the restaurant might not be full.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

By the way I have my Stop and Smell the Roses Fastpass+ reserved for Tues, May 12: 9:15-10:15 booked already. Whoot Whoot!

You wasted one of your FP+ reservations. That one will be less popular than COP. You could have gotten it the day of.

Yeah, but then you'll be in the "Yellow" section off to the side. You won't be front-and-center next to the roses. Only way to get that last minute is to get the "Smell the Roses Dining Package". It costs $75 and is available only at Shutters. Roses may be canceled due to inclement weather.

 

[tirian]

Wasnt there always some type of DDP at WDW? I think where it went off the rails is when they started to offer it for free.

Starting next year, they'll be pushing the deluxe DDP on everyone who books a reservation. "Staying at an All-Star? Great, did you hear about our Deluxe Disney Dining Plan?"

Btw, this isn't sarcasm. That really is the plan.

 

[PeterAlt]

I'm not cryptic ... what would you like to know?

Oh, and I meant to go after one of your posts on some other thread where you started getting insane and talking about fifth and sixth gates for WDW. I forgot where that was, but all I'll say again is IT IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN (so deal with the four boring parks that you've got!)

I'm not cryptic ... what would you like to know?

Oh, and I meant to go after one of your posts on some other thread where you started getting insane and talking about fifth and sixth gates for WDW. I forgot where that was, but all I'll say again is IT IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN (so deal with the four boring parks that you've got!)

Never say never never again!

 

[djlaosc]

Starting next year, they'll be pushing the deluxe DDP on everyone who books a reservation. "Staying at an All-Star? Great, did you hear about our Deluxe Disney Dining Plan?"

Btw, this isn't sarcasm. That really is the plan.

Well, the current deal in the UK at the moment is that you get the QSDP if you stay at a Moderate or Deluxe Hotel, plus a $100 giftcard, I think. You get nothing for staying at a value resort, and you do not get the normal DDP if you stay at a Deluxe this time.

However, this offer has been on and off throughout 2012, starting with QSDP (Moderate)/DDP (Deluxe) and a $300 giftcard, I think, with the giftcard shrinking each time it was brought back ($300->$200->$150->$100).

Hopefully free dining and a higher giftcard will return next year (and again in 2014).

(Note, we're looking at going back in 2014, and will be hoping for free dining when we book. However, we only use counter service, so will at least be hoping for free QSDP. It allowed us to try new restaurants [if we didn't like it we could always go elsewhere] and helped with the fall in the exchange rate.

In 2007, we paid for food out of pocket. In 2011, we had free QSDP.
In 2007, the exchange rate was £1:$2. In 2011, the exchange rate was £1:$1.58 (and in 2012, has been lower)
We took the same amount of £s in both years. In 2007, we had money left over. In 2011, we didn't.)

 

[misterID]

I'll say it forever, DDP had nothing to do with the food quality going down and food prices going up. That was happening anyway. And yeah, crowds were getting heavy even before DDP, especially in MK. That ship had already left the port.

 

[unkadug]

I'll say it forever, DDP had nothing to do with the food quality going down and food prices going up. That was happening anyway. And yeah, crowds were getting heavy even before DDP, especially in MK. That ship had already left the port.

It did have a lot to do with homogenizing most of the menus.

 

[John]

I'll say it forever, DDP had nothing to do with the food quality going down and food prices going up. That was happening anyway. And yeah, crowds were getting heavy even before DDP, especially in MK. That ship had already left the port.

That may or not be true, but it is just YOUR opinion. You also can not deny for one second that the DDP has not had an adverse effect on the resturants and the reservation system. It goes against all logical sensibilities.Offering free dining makes resturants available to those who would otherwise not be there. Thus taxing the system. I would agree with your statement but with the caveat that the FREE DDp has had an adverse effect.


edit: the effect is what is up for debate.

 

[misterID]

It is not my opinion that I saw it starting in 2000. Getting a reservation in MK for dinner at the prime spots was already becoming a nightmare. You can make a case that it's made it worse and I'll agree with you, but at the same time one of the logical reasons for using DDP is because you were going to eat a sitdown dinner anyway. You can also make an argument the dining plan was a way to justify what they were already doing in regards to lowering quality and raising prices.

It did have a lot to do with homogenizing most of the menus.

...And I'd say that was already well on it's way to happening, too. They were already getting rid of originals. They changed the citrus swirl and got rid of the strawberry swirl. It wasn't long before more original items were disappearing and that was before DDP.

 

[tirian]

Here's the interesting part: sit-down dining has become more homogenized and quick service has improved considerably.

 

[Rasvar]

Here's the interesting part: sit-down dining has become more homogenized and quick service has improved considerably.

Quick service has improved considerably? Not sure I buy that. Choices seem to be down. There is less variety. Yes, it is faster. But the improvement is in the eye of the beholder. Most of my favorite quick service food items no longer exist in the parks. I will say that there are more healthier options available. Beyond that, it's not as good as it was a 15 years ago.

 

[beachlover4444]

... from a quickee holiday visit to WDW and UNI this week.

Let's start with the stuff you likely don't know.

EMH. You like it? You don't? You are ambivalent? Well, doesn't matter because plans are to eliminate it. First step was cutting night hours down from three to two. Look for that to drop more and nights to slowly get eliminated. They'll cut back mornings lastly as they are more popular, but look for DAK to lose a morning soon as well.

The reason? Resort guests will be getting a perq (using Queen's English here) in the form of extra FP+ so that will allow them to ride as much as the extra time allegedly does. It's all about eliminating labor hours for ops, while telling guests it's the amount of rides they get, not when they get them that matters.

Upset that Fantasmic looks like a disaster? Well, it seems that maintenance has basically been told not to fix anything that breaks or doesn't work because the show isn't long for the park. Let the WoC rumours commence.

EPCOT truly looks sad at the holidays with such little decoration. And c'mon guys, can't you at least keep all the lights on the tree working? Or maybe add some more pyro back to RoE (tag nonwithstanding)?

New Fantasyland? ... Where do I even start. Maybe tomorrow or Monday. ... But while what's there looks detailed and nice (and it does), can I also state that The Port of Entry at IOA is just as detailed or more and that ET is a better ride in 2012 than Little Mermaid is? Oh, I just did.

Gotta remember to also plug the best new thing at the MK that no one seems to want to talk about (no, it isn't pork shanks at Gaston's ... or the new interactive game Help Gary Buchanan Find His Missing Dragon!)

More to come you can be sure ...