Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[Rasvar]

Maybe it even is an intentional return to those old A-E tickets. Just with the pretence of still offering one ticket that pays for it all. But then FP+ opens the backdoor to reintroduce a way to pay more for better access to the popular rides. @ParentsOf4 has explained it in depth already how FP+ works financially. And it is that promise of FP+ enhancing revenue and efficiency that makes FP+ so dangerous. They will try soooo hard to make this work even if it turns out an operational nightmare (according to the reports here on wdwmagic it seems like the recent tests did not go well at all). The promise of being such a money maker will ensure that this thing will not be considered a failure easily.

I remember that @WDW1974 posted a few months ago that TDO expects the profit (or was it revenue?) per guest to go up by 13% (or a similar high number) thanks to FP+. When I read it then I thought that was ridiculous. I am starting to see how they could think that....

Revenue enhancement and operational efficiency enhancement would be items one and two. Guest experience is actually a distant third or even fourth in this. This is as much about infrastructure than anything in the public eye. Add in the data mining and analytics, you get the gold mine. As far as the tests go, I'll just say that booze consumption and sleep aid sales are increasing in some parts of the company.
This is really an operational bet the farm project. It will either work or crumble. It may still work in the long run but I suspect there could be some fall guys at certain points. I only hope the sword doesn't fall on anyone I know.

 

[Bolna]

Ah, I found it!! It was in June in the "Is this James Cameron?" thread:

or start talking about how NEXT GEN will be able to syphon an extra 11% revenue off of each guest starting in FQ'3 of 2013

And sorry, it was only 11%.

 

[ParentsOf4]

@ParentsOf4 has explained it in depth already how FP+ works financially.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Please remember that what I've posted is only an educated guess based on publically available information. Based on preliminary information, it seems two of FP+'s most important financial aspects that impact WDW guests (preferential treatment for onsite guests and eventual elimination of EMH) are part of Disney's current business strategy for FP+. In addition, it appears the current FP system eventually will disappear. However, strategies can and do often change. Something that someone posts as "true" today may not be "true" later if the strategy changes.

Based on my experience, the only thing for certain is that private companies do not invest $1.5B unless they intend a return on investment greater than $1.5B.

 

[GoofGoof]

A lot of people give the DDP grief, but if you know what you're doing with it, you can still have a lot of spontaneity in your trip. My family tried it out when they came down to visit this month (albeit at a discounted rate) and as far as TS goes, we just doubled up and did mostly signature restaurants (racking up equivalently large bills considering it was 4 adults) on a few nights rather than trying to do a different TS every night. Couple that with the fact that we basically had prepaid QSR breakfast (or sometimes lunch depending on the day) and all the snacks it actually made the trip a lot less stressful in determining where we ate, what we could get etc. because what we got was all pre-paid for.

I think people tend to fumble on it more when they try to use 1 of each credit for each person in their party each day of their visit. Two of the days we were there we were actually at Universal which allowed us to really kind of be flexible with the extra credits we hadn't used those days. In the end though we did the math and had saved quite a bit of money on it. I can see a lot of families losing money or just breaking even, especially ones with kids who are forced to get the cheaper children's menu options for kids under 9.

My point on DDP is that you can not just arrive at WDW and eat at sit down restaurants without making an ADR well in advance. Whether you use 1 each day or combine credits on signature dining you still need the ADRs which at least partially dictate your days. If you make your 3 signature DDP reservations on Mon, Wed and Fri then you can't decide on Sunday of your trip that you are going to visit Universal on Monday instead of going to EPCOT since you have an ADR that night.

 

[Bolna]

Revenue enhancement and operational efficiency enhancement would be items one and two. Guest experience is actually a distant third or even fourth in this. This is as much about infrastructure than anything in the public eye. Add in the data mining and analytics, you get the gold mine. As far as the tests go, I'll just say that booze consumption and sleep aid sales are increasing in some parts of the company.
This is really an operational bet the farm project. It will either work or crumble. It may still work in the long run but I suspect there could be some fall guys at certain points. I only hope the sword doesn't fall on anyone I know.

Oh, I do get it that it also has an infrastructure side to it. That part I very much do understand and think is necessary. I work in a organisation that waited far too long to update their IT infrastructure and that led to a lot of headache.

The thing about FP+ that is starting to bug me more and more however is that "operational efficiency enhancement" aspect which is being sold as guest service. While in reality it just treats guests as a commodity that has to be distributed evenly. That somehow a person's experience of the park is very different depending on which attractions they actually see (assuming that they see that magical number of 9 attractions that makes people happy supposedly) seems to be far too neglected.

The next years will be interesting to see whether this all ends in disaster or not - but only interesting from a pure spectator's point of view. From my view as a fan and a guest I find it rather disheartening.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

If you make your 3 signature DDP reservations on Mon, Wed and Fri then you can't decide on Sunday of your trip that you are going to visit Universal on Monday instead of going to EPCOT since you have an ADR that night.

Not necessarily. I get where you're going with your example but that's dictated more by crowd level, park hours, and the need of the travelling party to spend a full day in a park without willingness to leave early. In my situation at the time of year we were there Universal was relatively uncrowded. Assuming I had made a reservation for something at Epcot that wasn't ungodly early (I consider anything before 6:30 early for dinner), it would have been completely feasible for us to go to Universal for part of the day then finish off at Epcot for dinner, especially considering it would have been casual attire.

As far as ADRs go the only things I had to book far out were my Candlelight package and Be Our Guest (which I got the day they started taking them). I made quite a few changes well after the 180 day mark and all of them turned out fine. It depends on what restaurants you're going to. We did Yachtsman, Jiko, Kouzzina (for dinner), Liberty Tree (for dinner), 1900 Park Fair (for breakfast), Teppan Edo (Candlelight) and Be Our Guest. If I had been wanting to do CRT, Crystal Palace, Ohana, Chef Mickey's, Le Cellier etc, yeah I can see your point. But of all those restaurants only Ohana is actually worth visiting and even that one isn't that hard to get a last minute reservation at if you're flexible on time.

Yeah it's rough on the family that's got a short time to do as much as they can and don't have the luxury of going often, so my situation is somewhat unique. But at the end of the day you need to prioritize what is important to you on your vacation and if getting to eat at a certain restaurant is the most important thing, then you'll make that a priority, especially if it's difficult to get ADRs to. Or you could just relax and enjoy yourself, get ADRs at maybe some of the less traveled restaurants and pleasantly surprise yourself.

For the record, dinner at Kouzzina was probably the best I had that whole vacation.

 

[Bolna]

My point on DDP is that you can not just arrive at WDW and eat at sit down restaurants without making an ADR well in advance. Whether you use 1 each day or combine credits on signature dining you still need the ADRs which at least partially dictate your days. If you make your 3 signature DDP reservations on Mon, Wed and Fri then you can't decide on Sunday of your trip that you are going to visit Universal on Monday instead of going to EPCOT since you have an ADR that night.

Ok, I just went on the (new and rather buggy) WDW website to look for dining reservations. For New Years Eve (which I understand to be a busy day) I could get a table for 4 for dinner at 32 different restaurants. Of course not all at the most preferred times between 6pm and 7pm (even though some places did have those times available). It very much is a myth that you really need an ADR to eat at WDW. One needs it for certain restaurants. Oh and there are even spots open for the Candlelight Processional.

 

[jt04]

Threads like this seem to drive crowds to the parks. I guess people want to see if it is as bad as Kevin Yee and a certain spirit claim it is. Or something.

 

[GoofGoof]

Not necessarily. I get where you're going with your example but that's dictated more by crowd level, park hours, and the need of the travelling party to spend a full day in a park without willingness to leave early. In my situation at the time of year we were there Universal was relatively uncrowded. Assuming I had made a reservation for something at Epcot that wasn't ungodly early (I consider anything before 6:30 early for dinner), it would have been completely feasible for us to go to Universal for part of the day then finish off at Epcot for dinner, especially considering it would have been casual attire.

As far as ADRs go the only things I had to book far out were my Candlelight package and Be Our Guest (which I got the day they started taking them). I made quite a few changes well after the 180 day mark and all of them turned out fine. It depends on what restaurants you're going to. We did Yachtsman, Jiko, Kouzzina (for dinner), Liberty Tree (for dinner), 1900 Park Fair (for breakfast), Teppan Edo (Candlelight) and Be Our Guest. If I had been wanting to do CRT, Crystal Palace, Ohana, Chef Mickey's, Le Cellier etc, yeah I can see your point. But of all those restaurants only Ohana is actually worth visiting and even that one isn't that hard to get a last minute reservation at if you're flexible on time.

Yeah it's rough on the family that's got a short time to do as much as they can and don't have the luxury of going often, so my situation is somewhat unique. But at the end of the day you need to prioritize what is important to you on your vacation and if getting to eat at a certain restaurant is the most important thing, then you'll make that a priority, especially if it's difficult to get ADRs to. Or you could just relax and enjoy yourself, get ADRs at maybe some of the less traveled restaurants and pleasantly surprise yourself.

For the record, dinner at Kouzzina was probably the best I had that whole vacation.

You are correct. It's not impossible to do depending on the time of year. Just don't try that plan in March around spring break. We couldn't even get an ADR at T-Rex later than 4pm on a Tuesday 5 months before our trip. It was pretty frustrating.

 

[jt04]

Threads like this seem to drive crowds to the parks. I guess people want to see if it is as bad as Kevin Yee and a certain spirit claim it is. Or something.

Edit--- perhaps the critics are just hopelessly out of touch. Or something.

 

[GoofGoof]

Ok, I just went on the (new and rather buggy) WDW website to look for dining reservations. For New Years Eve (which I understand to be a busy day) I could get a table for 4 for dinner at 32 different restaurants. Of course not all at the most preferred times between 6pm and 7pm (even though some places did have those times available). It very much is a myth that you really need an ADR to eat at WDW. One needs it for certain restaurants. Oh and there are even spots open for the Candlelight Processional.

To each their own. If you don't have a preference where you eat and what time you want you can skip making ADRs and be spontaneous. Same will apply to FP+. If you choose not to make reservations before you get there you will still be able to book "reservations" at the in park kiosks. You just probably won't get the rides you want at the times you want, but something will be available still.

 

[Bolna]

You are correct. It's not impossible to do depending on the time of year. Just don't try that plan in March around spring break. We couldn't even get an ADR at T-Rex later than 4pm on a Tuesday 5 months before our trip. It was pretty frustrating.

Ok, I just checked for the Tuesday in the week before Easter. It seems like T-Rex is the only restaurant which has extremely limited availability, the only option I got there was 10pm. Nearly everything else has halfway decent times (even hot tickets like Ohana, Chef Mickey and Le Cellier). So maybe this is more an issue with T-Rex than a general ADR issue.

 

[Bolna]

To each their own. If you don't have a preference where you eat and what time you want you can skip making ADRs and be spontaneous. Same will apply to FP+. If you choose not to make reservations before you get there you will still be able to book "reservations" at the in park kiosks. You just probably won't get the rides you want at the times you want, but something will be available still.

But many more people travel to WDW to ride specific rides than to eat at specific restaurants.

 

[jakeman]

My point on DDP is that you can not just arrive at WDW and eat at sit down restaurants without making an ADR well in advance. Whether you use 1 each day or combine credits on signature dining you still need the ADRs which at least partially dictate your days. If you make your 3 signature DDP reservations on Mon, Wed and Fri then you can't decide on Sunday of your trip that you are going to visit Universal on Monday instead of going to EPCOT since you have an ADR that night.

Arguably the busiest week of the year on a Saturday night and only 38 restaurants are showing no availability for dinner tonight.

 

[GoofGoof]

Arguably the busiest week of the year on a Saturday night and only 38 restaurants are showing no availability for dinner tonight.

I think that pretty much proves my point. If I wanted to be spontaneous and not make ADRs there are 38 places with no availability tonight and countless more with limited times. I never said you would starve, just that you have to make ADRs if you have a specific place you want to eat.

Ok, I just checked for the Tuesday in the week before Easter. It seems like T-Rex is the only restaurant which has extremely limited availability, the only option I got there was 10pm. Nearly everything else has halfway decent times (even hot tickets like Ohana, Chef Mickey and Le Cellier). So maybe this is more an issue with T-Rex than a general ADR issue.

But that is still months away so if you booked now it would be booking an ADR well in advance. Check back the day of and you will probably find something like 38 restaurants unavailable and many more with limited times.

I think we have wasted enough time on this. We can agree to disagree. I guess I hit a raw nerve with DDP. I had no idea people were so loyal to it.

 

[unkadug]

Edit--- perhaps the critics are just hopelessly out of touch. Or something.

So who are you channeling today?

 

[Bolna]

I think that pretty much proves my point. If I wanted to be spontaneous and not make ADRs there are 38 places with no availability tonight and countless more with limited times. I never said you would starve, just that you have to make ADRs if you have a specific place you want to eat.


But that is still months away so if you booked now it would be booking an ADR well in advance. Check back the day of and you will probably find something like 38 restaurants unavailable and many more with limited times.

I think we have wasted enough time on this. We can agree to disagree. I guess I hit a raw nerve with DDP. I had no idea people were so loyal to it.

Oh, I don't like DDP at all - I think it destroyed the menus at WDW and led to horribly overpriced food. I only had it once, when it was still a deal as the appetizer and the gratuity was included. Now I think it does not offer any deal.

I just think that it isn't true that you can't dine at a Disney restaurant without an ADR well in advance. Does it become more difficult - yes. But as it is today, you can still be spontaneous about your day even with the negative effect the DDP has had on dining at Disney. You could even go and have dinner offsite. My best meal on my last trip to WDW was at Tchoup Chop at the end of our day at Universal - for the same money I spent at Kona the day after, we got a meal with the quality of Flying Fish (my overall favourite restaurant at WDW).

However, FP+ will truly kill the spontaneity in touring the parks at WDW.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Edit--- perhaps the critics are just hopelessly out of touch. Or something.

Yeah, that's probably the answer. All that time I spend up at URO has kept me "out of the loop". Haha.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Oh, I don't like DDP at all - I think it destroyed the menus at WDW and led to horribly overpriced food. I only had it once, when it was still a deal as the appetizer and the gratuity was included. Now I think it does not offer any deal.

I just think that it isn't true that you can't dine at a Disney restaurant without an ADR well in advance. Does it become more difficult - yes. But as it is today, you can still be spontaneous about your day even with the negative effect the DDP has had on dining at Disney. You could even go and have dinner offsite. My best meal on my last trip to WDW was at Tchoup Chop at the end of our day at Universal - for the same money I spent at Kona the day after, we got a meal with the quality of Flying Fish (my overall favourite restaurant at WDW).

However, FP+ will truly kill the spontaneity in touring the parks at WDW.

Universal Resort Orlando has a surprisingly large number of "California Grill" quality or better restaurants for such a small resort. I love Emeril's Orlando, Emeril's Tchoup Chop, The Palm at Hard Rock Hotel, and BiCE at Portofino Bay resort. And I have never had a problem getting same day ressies at any of them except for Christmas Day Dinner where we ended up at The Rosen Shingle Creek for a fantastic buffet.

 

[marni1971]

Threads like this seem to drive crowds to the parks. I guess people want to see if it is as bad as Kevin Yee and a certain spirit claim it is. Or something.

No, it's the time of year I think. That's what does it.