Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[Longhairbear]

I read all sorts of Disney sites, haven't seen any big uproar over FP+, at least not anything big enough to stop it. it will be rolled out.

I just had to come back to your reply to comment.
You, and Disney will not see any big uproar, should it ever happen. It will not be on this site, or any Disney site. It will be word of mouth, online. On Facebook, on Live Journal, on Flickr, on Googleplus, and any other social media site. People will send texts to their entire friends' lists on their cell phones. You and Disney won't have a clue where comments are made, and you won't be able to do any "damage control", or spin it in any way.
Conversely the same is true if FP+ is pure gold.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I like how you go from disney can't do that- wont do that- to it's ok if they do that. What you don't get is that there are questions to be asked and any person should ask them for the safety of themselves and family. Am I ok with it, not sure yet, will I question it definitely, you say do I trust disney to an extent yes. But blindly no.

I suppose that it is easier to just point out that a random poster seems to be wavering on the possibility that Disney my be able to track them in the park and make that the justification for the accusations that have been leveled. It's not, however, any kind of argument at all. It still doesn't pinpoint why you folks feel that this situation is an inherent danger to anyone or how they can turn an electrical impulse into a sale unless the individual wants to be sold. In other words...what's to trust.

Child molester??? Where did that come from? He was talking about Disney peddling merchandise to your child.

Child molester has become one of the main argument against the system at this point. Nothing else was working so that little "Save the Children" tidbit surfaced and considering the sensitivity of the topic has severely reduced anyone's ability to talk in favor of the system without sounding like they are heartless children haters. It's all bull. For one thing, can you imagine what would happen to Disney if a pedophile found a way to use the system to score a victim? No one has a bigger vested interest in insuring that doesn't happen then Disney. No one! There are many understandable arguments that might be able to be made, but it is all still total speculation without enough real information coupled with negative side effects to really comprehend the entire program. I am not in favor of NextGen, nor am I against it. I'm willing to admit that I do not have enough first hand knowledge of it to make that decision yet. I think that since we live in the 21st century now it is time we start to accept that this is the future, we are either part of it or left in the dust. Somethings are just bigger then individuals, todays technology is one of those things. And those, my friends, are my opinions.

 

[articos]

You should know by now that any discussion I am involved in is going to be loaded with FUN!

I feel bad that you feel that way ... but I do understand it. I have had that AP since 1982 ... a VERY long time. I have spent what's (in my mind anyway) an obscene amount of money at WDW. And for the first time I am seriously wondering whether I'll renew. I've felt this way for 5-6 years, but every year I wind up doing it.

But when they offered newbie DVCers PAPs for the same $399 my Charter renewal was this fall because they're losing many of their DVCers to UNI and SW and BGT and the beaches ... well, that left a very sick taste in my mouth. I actually made my first and ONLY (yes, REALLY!, to all my critics out there) complaint letter. And while I've had a dialogue with folks at WDW over this, I've felt very much that they were going through the motions, saying how much they care and value my loyalty while not promising to do a damn thing for Charter APers... and the bottom line is I can get in FREE practically any day of the year because I have lots of wonderful friends who work for TWDC. ... So, I'm really wondering if it's worth giving Disney the money for my AP or not.

I have been similarly disappointed with Virgin America as a "charter" member of Elevate and the airline in general. It's a very similar decline when thinking about both companies, albeit on a much shorter timeframe for the airline. Although both are still a very unique product within their fields, they both once were category changing class-leaders. And Virgin promised perks to their charter members, darnit...where are my perks?!

I have a lot of thoughts on MyMagic+, the resorts, the management, the future, George, SQS, the competition, Bob, data collection, the attractions, parades and the yeti. I will try to wrestle everything into coherence and then we can have some fun.

 

[asianway]

I just had to come back to your reply to comment.
You, and Disney will not see any big uproar, should it ever happen. It will not be on this site, or any Disney site. It will be word of mouth, online. On Facebook, on Live Journal, on Flickr, on Googleplus, and any other social media site. People will send texts to their entire friends' lists on their cell phones. You and Disney won't have a clue where comments are made, and you won't be able to do any "damage control", or spin it in any way.
Conversely the same is true if FP+ is pure gold.

Is it time for a sticky where all suspected Disney social media plants, past & present are listed?

 

[harveyt0206]

I'm a shareholder (not a 1-2 share cause it's kewl type) of a publically traded company. I therefore have an interest in the way said corp decides to spend billions of dollars. ... Oh, and I would trust some family and friends to spend my money because they are responsible.



Nah, I disagree (naturally). I think many diehard fanbois (many who have never been to Anaheim and certainly not to the international resorts) are enamored by it and think it is so detailed and beautiful and MAGICal. I think for the average guest it is just a prettier version of 'more of the same'. ... They spent almost half a billion dollars and didn't create one worthwhile, must see attraction.



You really think people would visit WDW just because of a plastic armband/tracking device/charging gimmick? That's what people spend $6,000 on vacations for? The only CMs I want to greet me by name would be my friends (like George Kalogridis) or someone at the front desk of resort. I don't want some ride operator or food and beverage counter worker greeting me.

As to the perks, what kind of perks do you think you'll get. MagicBands aren't a loyalty program, they aren't Klout. You only get what you pay for. Nothing added, lots taken away.

As far as my charter AP status, I don't want a Mansion butler saying 'Mr. Spirit, you have been coming so often, you must just be dying to live here'. I've waited 31 years for WDW to offer anytype of loyalty benefit (something as simple as an annual Christmas card or pin ... or better discounts ... or truly unique offerings) and, guess what?, I'm still waiting.

Also, as someone just reminded me in all my years of posting on Disney forums, I have yet to come across another poster who actually is a WDW Charter APer. So there aren't many of us and we're largely treated wih disdain at best because management knows that we know the product is utter crap when compared to what it was say from 1971-1996.



So ... the benefit for Disney is making a (blank)load more money due to impulse purchases and people not realizing that $823 day of spending at EPCOT will wind up on the Visa card ... but the only benefit you see is not having to (heaven forbid!) fumble for a room key or a ticket or a CC. Amazing.

Oh, just wondering for my social media experiment ... but how many folks here actually wear a watch daily? And your children? Serious question.

I do wear a watch every day. Even on vacation. I also wear several bracelets on a daily basis, so the band won't phase me in the least. I did pose the question to my husband, who is not a watch wearer, and he said he doesn't think it will bother him. We don't have kids, so I can't speak to what kids do or don't wear, but if I was a parent I think my biggest concern would be how easy is it for the little ones to lose their band. Even if I can control which bands in my party has charging privileges, there will still be that pesky time suck of having to go to Guest services and get a new band activated before we can go to the park.

 

[GoofGoof]

Wow. Things still heated around here. There are plenty of things to hate/dislike/worry about with Nextgen and especially FP+. IMHO There is no reason to focus on a highly unlikely scenario about a pedophile getting a job at WDW, hacking the system and using the data to determine where an unsupervised child is. Here's my logic and/or questions about that scenario:
1) Like someone pointed out the predators are there now so it didn't take a new system to attract them. I don't see it having a further attraction.
2) My understanding of the technology is the band will register when a person passes over or in front of a censor like their door lock, a ride Mickey head, a store register or some other sensor around the park. The only thing that would tell you is where the person was when it registers or where they have been. How would the predator know the kid is definitely alone? If the kid scanned in at a ride and not the parents maybe they rode alone without mom and dad. Same goes for the park sensors. For the room only 1 person will open the door of the family arrives back at the room together. If the kid's band activates the hotel door it doesn't mean they are alone. others could have entered with them. Assuming the kid is not old enough to tour the parks alone I think it's highly unlikely the bands will give anyone enough data to determine a kid is alone.
3) Who will have access to the data in the system? I doubt all 60,000 CMs will have the ability to access the data any time they want. No way they are going to just allow everyone in to play with their $1.5B data. So the predator Most likely has to either work directly with the data or hack the system. Not saying that is impossible but adds a certain complexity to the act.
4) In the example of the teenager at the park alone, wouldn't it be easier for a predator to just wait by the front gate and follow a lone teen to the bus stop or into the park? There seems to be a lot of unknowns with using the wristband data. Really a teen is probably more likely to have a Facebook page or a cell phone which both could be used to track them easily. If the teen posts on FB that they are going to MK without mom and dad to see fireworks then the info is out there. Same with cell phones. Plenty of apps use active GPS to track locations. Someone who can hack the Disney data could probably hack a cell phone app's data and use that to track the person.

Just for the record, this is all my opinion. I am the parent of young kids and I would never tell others what they should or shouldn't be concerned about. This world is a really scary place for parents and we are constantly trying to keep our kids safe while balancing out allowing them to experience life. Someone pointed out that predators can be scout leaders, soccer coaches, priests or just neighbors. We can't stop our kids from doing anything because of the risks. If I felt that their was more than a very remote chance of the bands being used to put kids in harms way I would be the first to stand up against them.

 

[Tiggerrules]

So even if you get a FP+ for say Splash, what good is it if the ride is such sorry shape that it is not worth going on. I would have much rather seen them invest in fixing the things that are broken down before investing in anything new, including new attractions. As a business owner, one of our main items we worry about is maintaining what we have before expansion, when you do that you build customer loyalty and trust.

 

[IlikeDW]

Indeed. I was staying at the Munich youth hostel (don't ask, was not my choice, but it is a very nice youth hostel and I had a room to myself) and it had RFID locks on the door to my room.

Great wolf lodge has been using for room and waterpark for years, but they were the uncomfortable plastic band type, was ready to have off by the end of our two nights.

 

[ParentsOf4]

How would the predator know the kid is definitely alone? If the kid scanned in at a ride and not the parents maybe they rode alone without mom and dad. Same goes for the park sensors. For the room only 1 person will open the door of the family arrives back at the room together. If the kid's band activates the hotel door it doesn't mean they are alone. others could have entered with them. Assuming the kid is not old enough to tour the parks alone I think it's highly unlikely the bands will give anyone enough data to determine a kid is alone.

MagicBands allow Disney to track the locations of all party members, not just children. Disney wants us to wear them so they can collect as much information on us as possible.

If Mom and Dad head to a nice dinner and leave Little Johnny alone in the hotel room, the technology allows Disney to know that. If Mom and Dad decide to spend a day at the spa and let Little Sue wander off to the parks alone, Disney could know that too. Disney's rules allow someone age 8 or over to enter the parks alone. (I don't know if Disney recently has or will change this rule.) No doubt, many parents' normal defensive mechanisms are relaxed. It's WDW, the place "where dreams come true". What could go wrong? It's a pedophile’s dream and our nightmare.

MagicBands have active transmitters broadcasting their positions. Unlike the old-fashioned KTTW tickets, MagicBands allow Disney to track us without us engaging the system. Disney installed active transmitters in MagicBands for a reason. Remove the batteries from MagicBands and the problem is solved.

We have no idea where Disney has installed MagicBand readers and no assurances they won't be added to more locations in the future. Disney is saying almost nothing about this aspect of MagicBands. Why?

I realize I sound paranoid but we are talking about our children and have every right to be concerned. When it comes to our children, we have every right to expect real answers from Disney, not vague promises.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Exactly! Pedophiles are always the Cub Scout leader, the little league coach, the teacher, or the Priest etc. They do whatever they can to surround themselves with children. To work at WDW is a pedophiles dream. Why do you think Michael Jackson built Neverland??? (I know I'm going to get a lot from that comment).

I know a lot of people hate Michael Jackson and think he was a pedo, but I love Michael and I never thought that. I went to Never Land with my siblings in 2002 (no, Michael wasn't there). I had the BEST time of my life, even more fun than I've ever had at Disneyland, probably. We played in his arcade, his theme park and the zoo, there. He had bumper cars and inside the arena, his music blasted through the speakers (nothing like ramming into another car while "Beat It" plays!). The rides were amazing and we saw Lilo and Stitch in his movie theater. Amazing. I remember the food being out of this world, too. Wish I could go back. Your comment brought up some great memories!

Now I absolutely love Michael Jackson, but Captain EO's got to go! The 3D effect is awful and I always have to cover one eye during the show, so I can see clearly. -__-

Okay, back on topic. DOWN WITH MY MAGIC/ FASTPASS+!

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Soarin's capacity is around 1300 guests per hour, 15,600 guests per typical 12-hour day at Epcot. Assuming about 60% of Soarin's capacity is allocated to FP+, there should be about 9,360 Soarin' FP+ per day. With Epcot's average attendance around 30,000, people have less than a one-in-three chance at a Soarin' FP+. Furthermore, that's throughout the day. If Disney offers a Soarin' FP+, it could end up being for 9:00 AM or 8:30 PM. The odds of getting a Soarin' FP+ at a good time are slim.

This is what everyone should be upset about, regardless of their opinions on the privacy issues.

Even with standby queues for every single attraction, there will not be enough FP+ passes for any given day in any given park to meet demand. Period.

Therefore, the logical outcome of FP+ is obvious: it will eventually become available only to guests who stay on property. And Disney will spend big bucks promoting it, instead of using those funds to fix their aging infrastructure or build new E-ticket attractions.

Welcome to the exclusive top-tier Disney theme park vacation of the 21st century.

 

[drew81]

It's nice to see the social media reps are back on here....

 

[drew81]

I know a lot of people hate Michael Jackson and think he was a pedo, but I love Michael and I never thought that. I went to Never Land with my siblings in 2002 (no, Michael wasn't there). I had the BEST time of my life, even more fun than I've ever had at Disneyland, probably. We played in his arcade, his theme park and the zoo, there. He had bumper cars and inside the arena, his music blasted through the speakers (nothing like ramming into another car while "Beat It" plays!). The rides were amazing and we saw Lilo and Stitch in his movie theater. Amazing. I remember the food being out of this world, too. Wish I could go back. Your comment brought up some great memories!

Now I absolutely love Michael Jackson, but Captain EO's got to go! The 3D effect is awful and I always have to cover one eye during the show, so I can see clearly. -__-

Okay, back on topic. DOWN WITH MY MAGIC/ FASTPASS+!

I'm right there with you.

 

[djlaosc]

Mythos: The only reason why LC still exists.

I've wondered whether they could make Mythos part of "Port of Entry" - have a boat that will take you to the restaurant and then they could change the rest of Lost Continent if they wanted to.

 

[stlphil]

MagicBands allow Disney to track the locations of all party members, not just children. Disney wants us to wear them so they can collect as much information on us as possible.

If Mom and Dad head to a nice dinner and leave Little Johnny alone in the hotel room, the technology allows Disney to know that. If Mom and Dad decide to spend a day at the spa and let Little Sue wander off to the parks alone, Disney could know that too. Disney's rules allow someone age 8 or over to enter the parks alone. (I don't know if Disney recently has or will change this rule.) No doubt, many parents' normal defensive mechanisms are relaxed. It's WDW, the place "where dreams come true". What could go wrong? It's a pedophile’s dream and our nightmare.

MagicBands have active transmitters broadcasting their positions. Unlike the old-fashioned KTTW tickets, MagicBands allow Disney to track us without us engaging the system. Disney installed active transmitters in MagicBands for a reason. Remove the batteries from MagicBands and the problem is solved.

We have no idea where Disney has installed MagicBand readers and no assurances they won't be added to more locations in the future. Disney is saying almost nothing about this aspect of MagicBands. Why?

I realize I sound paranoid but we are talking about our children and have every right to be concerned. When it comes to our children, we have every right to expect real answers from Disney, not vague promises.

There are so many different aspects to NextGen, most to dislike but a few to like, that it is easy to lose focus. But to me the huge negatives are FP+ (due to the large disparity between supply and demand), and the tracking aspect (particularly for kids).

I wasn't too concerned about the bands until I heard about the active component. The passive RFID is just another way to do the same things that they are doing now, but the active part can only be there to do tracking at some level. I laugh when people say there isn't live GPS with this so there is no real-time tracking, as if GPS is the only way to do that. Given enough detectors (not going to use the word "sensors" lol) for the active broadcasts, tracking to whatever level of precision you want is possible. While you may ask why Disney would want to track you, I say that I don't care why. While I don't have anything to hide, I find it a distasteful intrusion on my privacy and creepy in the extreme. You may not feel this way, but I bet I am not alone in this.

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned what if Disney assigned a cast member to follow every group and note what they do. Of course this isn't practical, but would you be okay with it? And the response is that Disney isn't tracking everyone with MyMagic+ because no cast member is following you specifically. The fallacy there is that "Disney" isn't just their cast members, they are also their servers and software and they can and probably will follow you individually.

 

[stlphil]

One more thought. While I don't fully trust any corporation, I don't really distrust them either.

For example, if Disney were to make a statement specifically that the ONLY detectors for the active broadcasts are at the entry of rides and at loading, so they could get automatic and accurate wait times, I would believe them. (I would also be okay with this if it were the case, but I doubt if it is.)

 

[GoofGoof]

MagicBands allow Disney to track the locations of all party members, not just children. Disney wants us to wear them so they can collect as much information on us as possible.

If Mom and Dad head to a nice dinner and leave Little Johnny alone in the hotel room, the technology allows Disney to know that. If Mom and Dad decide to spend a day at the spa and let Little Sue wander off to the parks alone, Disney could know that too. Disney's rules allow someone age 8 or over to enter the parks alone. (I don't know if Disney recently has or will change this rule.) No doubt, many parents' normal defensive mechanisms are relaxed. It's WDW, the place "where dreams come true". What could go wrong? It's a pedophile’s dream and our nightmare.

MagicBands have active transmitters broadcasting their positions. Unlike the old-fashioned KTTW tickets, MagicBands allow Disney to track us without us engaging the system. Disney installed active transmitters in MagicBands for a reason. Remove the batteries from MagicBands and the problem is solved.

We have no idea where Disney has installed MagicBand readers and no assurances they won't be added to more locations in the future. Disney is saying almost nothing about this aspect of MagicBands. Why?

I realize I sound paranoid but we are talking about our children and have every right to be concerned. When it comes to our children, we have every right to expect real answers from Disney, not vague promises.

I guess I am just looking at this from my own point of view. I would never, ever allow a 9 year old to go to the parks alone despite what Disney officially allows. I have 2 sons who are much younger now so maybe that changes once they get closer to 9. I would probably assume most parents would not let kids wander alone in the parks until they are at least teens. For me at least, the oldest will have to be in high school and capable of taking care of himself and his younger brother. All that being said, right now without the magic bands someone could look at the ADR system (I am assuming that system is a lot less secure) and see that mom and dad have dinner reservations for 2 which means the kids are alone. For me that probably wouldn't even be the case since my father in law lives less than an hour from the mouse so if I am out to dinner with my wife and the kids are in MK they will probably be with grandpa who will not be linked to them by the system. Mr. Predator is going to get a big surprise when he shows up to snag my kid and grandpa is standing there. Don't let the grey hair fool you, grandpa is a veteran and still works out every day.

I don't think you are paranoid. I'm not judging anyone. This site is the closest thing I am involved in related to social media. No Facebook, no YouTube videos, no MySpace (is that still even around). I have asked that my kids pictures not be included on the school facebook page and requested some relatives and friends not to post pictures or personal info about my kids on their pages. A lot of people think I'm paranoid because of that. I think the difference between regular social media and this is the data will not be available to the general public. I know I'm putting some faith in TWDC to keep my data secure, but they have a large economic incentive to do just that.

 

[GoofGoof]

So even if you get a FP+ for say Splash, what good is it if the ride is such sorry shape that it is not worth going on. I would have much rather seen them invest in fixing the things that are broken down before investing in anything new, including new attractions. As a business owner, one of our main items we worry about is maintaining what we have before expansion, when you do that you build customer loyalty and trust.

This. While these other issues around protecting kids and privacy are good debates and important I haven't heard a single person on here say they would prefer Nextgen and FP+ over a fully restored WDW or a new land in a park (Pixar, cars, Star Wars...take your pick). If I were king of the World for a day I would have nixed this whole plan and invested the $1.5B in the parks. Not even new lands but just restore all of the existing parks to full glory. Unfortunately, I am not the king of the world (not even king of my own castle anymore - the kids rule this place)

 

[Hakunamatata]

In my relentless research of Nextgen on the intrawebs, I found a little known quote associated with this project that is a bit concerning......

"One Band to rule them all,
One Band to find them,
One Band to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them."

I wonder what that's all about.....

 

[GoofGoof]

In my relentless research of Nextgen on the intrawebs, I found a little known quote associated with this project that is a bit concerning......

"One Band to rule them all,
One Band to find them,
One Band to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them."

I wonder what that's all about.....

LOTR land instead of Avatar? Now that would be worth giving up my privacy for