Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[Lil Fort]

The example given was of a CM trying to sell a child something when his parents aren't looking. Not very realistic. The thing is *not* GPS, so the only time they could use the device (reasonably) to approach families is at the restaurants. Probably they'll use it to arrange for an impromptu appearance of a child's favorite character . . . if the parents decide to tell and ask Disney to do that for them. Disney has done this for me in the past, I asked, hinted, that my child would like to see Mickey during lunch, and they showed up at a restaurant where said character does not routinely show up. They all acted like it was a big surprise for the rest of the group and my kid.

Outside of restaurants, there is the FP line for rides, but it would be awkward to approach you in line, and when you leave line there is no way for them to know who you are. It's not GPS.

I haven't seen a realistic example which is creepy. Disney has its reputation riding on this, and most likely a safe and easy to use system will be put into place.

I fear that you have fallen victim to the 'cool stuff'. There is more to NextGen than the MagicBand and don't forget that even though the band is not GPS enabled, there are other ways to do geolocation, namely wi-fi triangulation. And yes, the MagicBands *do* contain a wi-fi transmitter. In order to understand the scenario that @WDW1974 described, you have to look at more than just the MagicBand. Let me see if I can put it all together for you.

1. MagicBands - a very high tech piece of plastic containing both active and passive RFID and a wi-fi transmitter. They will use these bands to locate you and your children as you move around the parks and yes, they will have readers in many places throughout the parks, not just at restaurants and attraction lines. They can easily put them most everywhere. Even the wi-fi that they have been installing around the parks and resorts can be used for this. This is probably the lowest of the high tech that they have installed for NextGen. Even an iPod touch with no GPS and no cell service can use geolocation.
2. MyMagic+ - a nifty app that lets you reserve fastpasses, view wait times and receive notifications from Disney. Unlike a static web pages that only fulfill requests for pages for the user, phone apps can also push notifications to the app on the device. Things like offers for Disney merchandise perhaps???
3. Database - As the bands collect information about you and your family's concierge type experiences, they will be saving bits of information about you and aggregating it with data that they obtained from other sources such as their website and the MyMagic+ app. This will allow them to mine the habits of both you and your family to find just the right flavor of offers to provide to you while you are in the parks.

Put it all together with a child that is old enough to venture around the parks alone (with his cell phone of course - what teen doesn't have one of those) and what do you get? The ability for just such a scenario like @WDW1974 described coming to a theme park near you...

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Hey pixel dust I downloaded disneys app and the first thing it asked was can disney use your current location, so they are currently now tracking your location in the parks

Must be for some map related function. They are asking the user for their permission, and you can opt out, so I think bodes well for transparency. Do you trust Disney not to stalk you in the park? I would.

 

[M.rudolf]

Must be for some map related function. They are asking the user for their permission, and you can opt out, so I think bodes well for transparency. Do you trust Disney not to stalk you in the park? I would.

I'm not saying that but the crux of your argument originally was disney doesn't and doesn't have the ability to track you in the parks

 

[M.rudolf]

Must be for some map related function. They are asking the user for their permission, and you can opt out, so I think bodes well for transparency. Do you trust Disney not to stalk you in the park? I would.

I trust disney not to stalk me yes but other things no, I'm not afraid of the product just some over zealous person that one day could be behind the product

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I fear that you have fallen victim to the 'cool stuff'. There is more to NextGen than the MagicBand and don't forget that even though the band is not GPS enabled, there are other ways to do geolocation, namely wi-fi triangulation. And yes, the MagicBands *do* contain a wi-fi transmitter. In order to understand the scenario that @WDW1974 described, you have to look at more than just the MagicBand. Let me see if I can put it all together for you.

1. MagicBands - a very high tech piece of plastic containing both active and passive RFID and a wi-fi transmitter. They will use these bands to locate you and your children as you move around the parks and yes, they will have readers in many places throughout the parks, not just at restaurants and attraction lines. They can easily put them most everywhere. Even the wi-fi that they have been installing around the parks and resorts can be used for this. This is probably the lowest of the high tech that they have installed for NextGen. Even an iPod touch with no GPS and no cell service can use geolocation.
2. MyMagic+ - a nifty app that lets you reserve fastpasses, view wait times and receive notifications from Disney. Unlike a static web pages that only fulfill requests for pages for the user, phone apps can also push notifications to the app on the device. Things like offers for Disney merchandise perhaps???
3. Database - As the bands collect information about you and your family's concierge type experiences, they will be saving bits of information about you and aggregating it with data that they obtained from other sources such as their website and the MyMagic+ app. This will allow them to mine the habits of both you and your family to find just the right flavor of offers to provide to you while you are in the parks.

Put it all together with a child that is old enough to venture around the parks alone (with his cell phone of course - what teen doesn't have one of those) and what do you get? The ability for just such a scenario like @WDW1974 described coming to a theme park near you...

Hmmm, still not a plausible scenario. The child molester scenario involves a tech-savy pedophile who can hack into a variety of systems for the purposes of targeting a specific child whose name the pervert already knows. Such a derranged whacko probably intent on harming a specific child, whom they already know their name and probably where he/she lives, would find an opportunity to molest the child, or others irregardless of what tech is in place.

I'm sure there are child molesters at WDW, but thankfully there are a lot of people around and cameras everywhere. I tend to think that the perverts hang out close to schools and other places where it would be easier to molest a child.

Is some child molester going to go to WDW and see a young kid on their own and try to hack his/her cell phone and hack the app so that they can follow him or her? Doubtful. I think that most of these perverts just wait in secluded areas for a nameless victim. If somebody is following you to WDW and hacking your iPhone to follow you, you've got bigger problems.

It comes to down if people trust Disney in terms of geo-location on an app.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I trust disney not to stalk me yes but other things no, I'm not afraid of the product just some over zealous person that one day could be behind the product

So . . . don't let the app geo-locate you. Big deal.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'm not saying that but the crux of your argument originally was disney doesn't and doesn't have the ability to track you in the parks

My argument is that I haven't seen a realistic way for a child molester, criminal, to easily take advantage of this system.

I do see a lot of folks who don't like pop-ups and unsolicited ads, and the fact that they don't like *anybody* knowing where they are, who are getting worked up about this system, IMHO.

WDW74 has an axe to grind with Disney. There are all things that we wish were better in the parks, but I think that some of the thinking is that this system will be inherently evil, when in fact this technology is everywhere and most people trust Disney not to do something of things described here which sound crazy.

I wonder if when they invented telephones people were freaked out that, of course, child molesters will call and ask if a kid is alone and then break into the house.

 

[M.rudolf]

So . . . don't let the app geo-locate you. Big deal.

I like how you go from disney can't do that- wont do that- to it's ok if they do that. What you don't get is that there are questions to be asked and any person should ask them for the safety of themselves and family. Am I ok with it, not sure yet, will I question it definitely, you say do I trust disney to an extent yes. But blindly no.

 

[Lil Fort]

Must be for some map related function. They are asking the user for their permission, and you can opt out, so I think bodes well for transparency. Do you trust Disney not to stalk you in the park? I would.

Unfortunately, that is what they are counting on. They are counting on the folks who are blinded by the coolness of the new technology and those that don't take the time to understand it, and those that frankly don't care 'because it's Disney and they could never do anything that wasn't designed specifically to make my stay extra magical'...

 

[awoogala]

The example given was of a CM trying to sell a child something when his parents aren't looking

well, as a simple aside, according to the app fine print, kids will have charge ability automatically, unless opted out...

 

[M.rudolf]

My argument is that I haven't seen a realistic way for a child molester, criminal, to easily take advantage of this system.

I do see a lot of folks who don't like pop-ups and unsolicited ads, and the fact that they don't like *anybody* knowing where they are, who are getting worked up about this system, IMHO.

WDW74 has an axe to grind with Disney. There are all things that we wish were better in the parks, but I think that some of the thinking is that this system will be inherently evil, when in fact this technology is everywhere and most people trust Disney not to do something of things described here which sound crazy.

I wonder if when they invented telephones people were freaked out that, of course, child molesters will call and ask if a kid is alone and then break into the house.

You have valid points and lately I do agree that 74 has an axe to grind, is the system inherently evil, no, technology is everywhere and I'm all for there being checks and balances. Will people exploit it, absolutely, it's how disney counteracts that important, and yes people became unhinged when most major technologies became available

 

[Lil Fort]

Hmmm, still not a plausible scenario. The child molester scenario involves a tech-savy pedophile who can hack into a variety of systems for the purposes of targeting a specific child whose name the pervert already knows. Such a derranged whacko probably intent on harming a specific child, whom they already know their name and probably where he/she lives, would find an opportunity to molest the child, or others irregardless of what tech is in place.

I'm sure there are child molesters at WDW, but thankfully there are a lot of people around and cameras everywhere. I tend to think that the perverts hang out close to schools and other places where it would be easier to molest a child.

Is some child molester going to go to WDW and see a young kid on their own and try to hack his/her cell phone and hack the app so that they can follow him or her? Doubtful. I think that most of these perverts just wait in secluded areas for a nameless victim. If somebody is following you to WDW and hacking your iPhone to follow you, you've got bigger problems.

It comes to down if people trust Disney in terms of geo-location on an app.

Child molester??? Where did that come from? He was talking about Disney peddling merchandise to your child.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Unfortunately, that is what they are counting on. They are counting on the folks who are blinded by the coolness of the new technology and those that don't take the time to understand it, and those that frankly don't care 'because it's Disney and they could never do anything that wasn't designed specifically to make my stay extra magical'...

Well, when you get on an airplane which flies at 30,000 feet at hundreds of miles per hour, are you blinded by the coolness of the technology?

I understand GPS and apps that utilize this tech, and I as an adult know what I am getting into. A child who has a cell phone will apps can read, and his parents should perhaps educate him/her with regards to them, but there are a lot of bad things more likely to happen in the world than the hacker/child molester angle . . . on Disney property.

If a child molester can hack a cell phone via GPS utilizing app, they can do it anywhere in the world, not a property specific issue.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Child molester??? Where did that come from? He was talking about Disney peddling merchandise to your child.

So . . . the big concern is that a CM will come up to you and ask you to buy a Mickey Mouse plush doll because of GPS? Sounds like a way to off a ton of guests.

WDW74 mentioned a child molester scenario, pretty far-fetched IMHO.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

You have valid points and lately I do agree that 74 has an axe to grind, is the system inherently evil, no, technology is everywhere and I'm all for there being checks and balances. Will people exploit it, absolutely, it's how disney counteracts that important, and yes people became unhinged when most major technologies became available

If credit cards were invented last year, and Disney started using them in restaurants and hotels, some people would be freaked out that Disney would know who they are, and would start tracking their purchases for nefarious purposes.

Not saying that a corporation wouldn't use such technology maliciously (MagicBand), but Disney is putting the tech front and center as part of a promotion and a way to make guests' visits easier. Anything that goes terribly wrong will be a disaster, and Disney can legitimately make money off of the system just on how it let's you spend money and avoid waits in line. If anything Disney is hiring, no doubt, top computer security experts to make the system a success, and that means being safe and free from controversy.

 

[Lil Fort]

Well, when you get on an airplane which flies at 30,000 feet at hundreds of miles per hour, are you blinded by the coolness of the technology?

Not in the slightest.

So . . . the big concern is that a CM will come up to you and ask you to buy a Mickey Mouse plush doll because of GPS? Sounds like a way to off a ton of guests.

WDW74 mentioned a child molester scenario, pretty far-fetched IMHO.

With push notifications, no CM is necessary.

 

[Longhairbear]

Yes, it is creepy. That is why a growing number of us have reservations about it. There is a lot more under the hood than concierge type services and experiences.

My other half and I discussed all this over dinner. We agreed that the many friends we have that do the commando style of riding attractions are going to hate this all with a passion. They live and breath rope drop, and gathering as many FP as possible, gaming the system etc. Those that buy one ticket for that day will be furious that they only get 3 FP, and then have to choose between attractions per grouping of selections. There is no way they will ever go on C, or D ticket attractions ever. They don't like those attractions, at all.

 

[flynnibus]

But you have to "tap" the reader, most folks won't be looking to tap the reader and its seem obvious that the MagicBand readers will just be installed where guests can use them, i.e. restaurants, paying for stuff, rides. I'm pretty sure Disney won't put the readers into door frames to track people out of the hope that they will tap them!

The tracking thing presumes that Disney will use the smart phone app to do this . . . doubt it, unless people want this and agree t

First, you really misunderstand the cell phone portion. For the app, people are already allowing their location to be collected. No need to involve the carriers.

Second, they can avoid requiring tapping by using the active radio in the band. That's the value of the band over just a RFID card

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Not in the slightest.

With push notifications, no CM is necessary.

So turn-off the push notifications. Doubt that Disney will do anything to annoy guests.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

My other half and I discussed all this over dinner. We agreed that the many friends we have that do the commando style of riding attractions are going to hate this all with a passion. They live and breath rope drop, and gathering as many FP as possible, gaming the system etc. Those that buy one ticket for that day will be furious that they only get 3 FP, and then have to choose between attractions per grouping of selections. There is no way they will ever go on C, or D ticket attractions ever. They don't like those attractions, at all.

Do they know how to work a computer? If not, more FPs for me.

There's always people who know how to game/utilize the system to their advantage.

They can still do rope drop to ride an E-Ticket.

If the system means more equitable distribution of FPs, then I'm all for it. Especially for the out of town folks who want to make sure they get to ride x,y, and z . . . the rope drop APers can get in line like everybody else, IMHO, and stop gaming the system.