Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[Lil Fort]

I doubt that would be put into effect as it sounds just too creepy. Disney doesn't need to hock most of the junk . . . errr wonderful merchandise in the parks, it is freakin' everywhere in case you haven't noticed. MagicBand is about concierge type service/experiences.

Yes, it is creepy. That is why a growing number of us have reservations about it. There is a lot more under the hood than concierge type services and experiences.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I say it's academic because while its an interesting debate I don't see this bringing the system down.

. . .

The biggest hit will be bad PR IMHO.

This^. The average guest will probably just be interested in what the system does and how they can use it. Sounds kind of addictive, and once you see a family tapping their wristbands on the Mickey Poles to go through the HM FP lines . . . you'll wonder if you should be doing the same thing too.

Obviously, there is a lot of goodwill between Disney and families with young kids, and some creepy CM isn't going to try to sell little Jimmy a plush Pluto doll when his parents aren't looking. The type of data they will get will be regarding a large number of people, and limited data from families to make their trip more memorable, not to personally appeal to kids to buy stuff.

I'm not at all clear how they would know that your preferences beyond ride preferences and what you like eating at the restaurants. Google knows more about us individually by a factor of about a billion I would guess. The info Disney hasn't isn't really worth much beyond what they can do to give you the V.I.P. experience in the parks.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Yes, it is creepy. That is why a growing number of us have reservations about it. There is a lot more under the hood than concierge type services and experiences.

The example given was of a CM trying to sell a child something when his parents aren't looking. Not very realistic. The thing is *not* GPS, so the only time they could use the device (reasonably) to approach families is at the restaurants. Probably they'll use it to arrange for an impromptu appearance of a child's favorite character . . . if the parents decide to tell and ask Disney to do that for them. Disney has done this for me in the past, I asked, hinted, that my child would like to see Mickey during lunch, and they showed up at a restaurant where said character does not routinely show up. They all acted like it was a big surprise for the rest of the group and my kid.

Outside of restaurants, there is the FP line for rides, but it would be awkward to approach you in line, and when you leave line there is no way for them to know who you are. It's not GPS.

I haven't seen a realistic example which is creepy. Disney has its reputation riding on this, and most likely a safe and easy to use system will be put into place.

 

[kittybubbles]

Maybe the iPhone 6 will have, RFID credit card transactions are supposed to be pretty safe, though obviously they'll need to have encryption and safeguards to prevent hacking. If RFID catches on outside of WDW, then it is kind of neat that WDW is sort of pioneering its use.

I think what you are missing is that the band is more than just NFC (I think that is near field communication) this is what phones and credit cards and the new room keys use, you need to tap the sensor for the chip data to be read. Many credit cards have these chips and they can be used at many stores w/o the need to swipe the card.

I assume (based on a thread on this site) that these bands will broadcast a signal (which is why they needed FCC approval for their use). To me this means it will be a bit easier to know where you are.

Folks keep mentioning that there is no 'GPS' involved, but they seem to forget that the new Disney app is a part of 'next GEN' as well, so if you are using the APP to check wait times, make reservations, check your FP schedule...well, Disney can use both GPS and triangulation to get a rather accurate idea of where you are (triangulation measures the signal strength of three cell towers to determine how far you are from each tower as a way to pinpoint approximently where your phone is located).

Now it is possible that they need the bands to broadcast in order to use this technology for ways to make some of the attractions more personal, but then why are they giving away free WI-FI and tieing so many aspects into their new APP? Also, can their network triangulate the location of your magic band since it broadcast a signal?

I imagine these other parks folks mention that use wrist bands for this stuff, well I bet they are just NFC type chips rather than the ones that Disney is rolling out.

 

[Captain Chaos]

This. The whole COPPA debate is pretty much academic since they will be getting parental consent when the parents sign up little Billy and Jane for My Magic plus and FP+ reservations. The opt out will be not using the system which of course means no FP+, longer lines and no magical wristband for Billy and Jane. Watching your kid cry because some other kid got a wristband they didnt get that makes a cannon fire on a pirate ship is no magical vacation. How many people will opt out? The interesting part of COPPA to me is there are some additional requirements to disclose what information you are collecting and what you are using it for if it's from kids under 13 even if the parent consents. That is the piece that probably makes Disney squirm a little.

So basically blackmail parents into handing over their minor child's information... Yep, Disney is ethical...And forcing parents to give over the child's information is an attempt at skirting COPPA laws... and you wonder why they are being called out on this? One of the questions asked was how will opting out affect the vacation... If you are blackmailed into handing an 8 year old's information to Disney for magical experiences then there is something wrong with that... And before you sprout off saying they ask for it now, are vacations less magical if you don't hand it over? No... everyone has the same vacation, pretty much... Disney is making it to where you are blackmailed into providing a child's information just to have a more magical experience...

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

So basically blackmail parents into handing over their minor child's information... Yep, Disney is magical...

Fixed that for you.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I think what you are missing is that the band is more than just NFC (I think that is near field communication) this is what phones and credit cards and the new room keys use, you need to tap the sensor for the chip data to be read. Many credit cards have these chips and they can be used at many stores w/o the need to swipe the card.

I assume (based on a thread on this site) that these bands will broadcast a signal (which is why they needed FCC approval for their use). To me this means it will be a bit easier to know where you are.

Folks keep mentioning that there is no 'GPS' involved, but they seem to forget that the new Disney app is a part of 'next GEN' as well, so if you are using the APP to check wait times, make reservations, check your FP schedule...well, Disney can use both GPS and triangulation to get a rather accurate idea of where you are (triangulation measures the signal strength of three cell towers to determine how far you are from each tower as a way to pinpoint approximently where your phone is located).

Now it is possible that they need the bands to broadcast in order to use this technology for ways to make some of the attractions more personal, but then why are they giving away free WI-FI and tieing so many aspects into their new APP? Also, can their network triangulate the location of your magic band since it broadcast a signal?

I imagine these other parks folks mention that use wrist bands for this stuff, well I bet they are just NFC type chips rather than the ones that Disney is rolling out.

And I believe you are 100% wrong.

There won't be special towers set up for triangulation or GPS location. An app is just something that allows you to use a cellphone to access information via the internet. Phone companies would have a fit if somehow Disney tried to hack the different types of phones to locate you.

Nobody has put on the table a realistic way in which this technology could be perverted for great harm to guests or their kids.

The weirdo politician from Mass was just showboating, and trolling for attention, by asking Disney about privacy issues which no doubt the lawyers are making sure everything is up to snuff.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Fixed that for you.

Debatable... LOL.. I haven't felt anything magical about the place in years.. unless ducking for cover from falling limbs, lamps, and rockwork is magical LOL...

 

[M.rudolf]

And I believe you are 100% wrong.

There won't be special towers set up for triangulation or GPS location. An app is just something that allows you to use a cellphone to access information via the internet. Phone companies would have a fit if somehow Disney tried to hack the different types of phones to locate you.

They don't have to hack the phone all they have to do is add one line of code in the permisions. A lot of the apps on iPhone and android phones do this. When accessing google search before inputting into the search bar the first thing it asks is if google can ask for your location. It would be very simple when you agree to the terms and agreements to have a line stating that in order for you to use their app you have to agree to them being able access your location. No permission is needed from the cell companies just you. And you don't have to even have permission disney can track you through outt the park already by triangulating your wifi signal when you access their wifi

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

They don't have to hack the phone all they have to do is add one line of code in the permisions. A lot of the apps on iPhone and android phones do this. When accessing google search before inputting into the search bar the first thing it asks is if google can ask for your location. It would be very simple when you agree to the terms and agreements to have a line stating that in order for you to use their app you have to agree to them being able access your location. No permission is needed from the cell companies just you. And you don't have to even have permission disney can track you through outt the park already by triangulating your wifi signal when you access their wifi

That's true . . . but everything that Disney does becomes front page news, especially with NextGen. If they do this then everybody will know that they do it, and like Google, they'll probably ask to be allowed to locate your position.

For this to be nefarious, as some are implying, Disney would have to both do this AND have a malicious plan, marketing or otherwise. Some people might want to have an app which shows where they are in the park.

I doubt that the MagicBands will have this feature, so it comes down to an app on a phone, and some apps already do this. Doubt Disney will do anything to tarnish their image.

The risks outweigh the gains. Say does uses Wi-Fi to triangulate people . . . how does this help them make $? I can see guests being outraged if CMs approach them and sing songs to them with their name in it and ask them to buy a special figurine. Of course, Disney wouldn't do this.

Still haven't heard a credible scenario whereby Disney does something "evil" or whereby a child molester or somebody else can do something "evil".

 

[Monty]

OK @WDW1974, I'll take partial blame for the troll, I gave him a relatively eloquently constructed catch phrase that he milked way too much. [But it was a dig at your over-zealous followers rather than you ]

As for COPPA, my understanding is it applies to collecting information from under 13s, not getting the same information provided by or with the permission of parents. Once they have it with said permission, they still can't use it to market to the under 13s directly. So "Johnny K, you'd just love the plush Nemo we have in the gift shop, take Mom or Dad to see it." would be a non-starter regardless whether they had the identifying info from Mom or Dad or with their permission. But "Dad K, wouldn't Johnny K just adore the plush Nemo in our gift shop?" would be perfectly acceptable. Am I missing anything?

 

[dhall]

The example given was of a CM trying to sell a child something when his parents aren't looking. Not very realistic. The thing is *not* GPS, so the only time they could use the device (reasonably) to approach families is at the restaurants. Probably they'll use it to arrange for an impromptu appearance of a child's favorite character . . . if the parents decide to tell and ask Disney to do that for them. Disney has done this for me in the past, I asked, hinted, that my child would like to see Mickey during lunch, and they showed up at a restaurant where said character does not routinely show up. They all acted like it was a big surprise for the rest of the group and my kid.

Outside of restaurants, there is the FP line for rides, but it would be awkward to approach you in line, and when you leave line there is no way for them to know who you are. It's not GPS.

I haven't seen a realistic example which is creepy. Disney has its reputation riding on this, and most likely a safe and easy to use system will be put into place.

The system will very likely know when a guest is in the gift shop after a ride, and know how long they stay. Doorways are the most likely places for the readers to be installed. Being able to send a message to a guest while they're in a fairly specific location (inside a store, in a land, in a specific park) is very likely an important part of the implementation. So the part about a child getting a message about a specific item while they're in the store where it's sold is certainly technically possible.

OTOH, targeting children when their parents are specifically not present, while technically possible, is very highly unlikely. It isn't easy to come up with a business reason to track groups as they subdivide, and there are too many people involved to imagine something that deliberately evil making it into the implementation (if for no other reason that there are always far more legitimate and profitable features that could be developed than there is time in the schedule and money in the budget).

 

[M.rudolf]

The reason I really am on the fence about this is because technically I've already given disney the majority of the info that the magic band collects. They already know what I've spent on if I have a credit card tied to my room. They already know the size of my family and age of my children due to reservations. They already know where I am the majority of the time due to park tickets and where I use my kttw. They know what toy preferences my kids have due to charges. They know what rides I frequent due to fast pass, they even know if I abuse fast pass by getting them and not returning. I know there are privacy issues, but the majority of us here have been in the system a long time. Now do I like fast pass+ no, not a fan I like to be spontaneous on a vacation, having teenagers doesn't help planning either.

 

[M.rudolf]

That's true . . . but everything that Disney does becomes front page news, especially with NextGen. If they do this then everybody will know that they do it, and like Google, they'll probably ask to be allowed to locate your position.

For this to be nefarious, as some are implying, Disney would have to both do this AND have a malicious plan, marketing or otherwise. Some people might want to have an app which shows where they are in the park.

I doubt that the MagicBands will have this feature, so it comes down to an app on a phone, and some apps already do this. Doubt Disney will do anything to tarnish their image.

The risks outweigh the gains. Say does uses Wi-Fi to triangulate people . . . how does this help them make $? I can see guests being outraged if CMs approach them and sing songs to them with their name in it and ask them to buy a special figurine. Of course, Disney wouldn't do this.

Still haven't heard a credible scenario whereby Disney does something "evil" or whereby a child molester or somebody else can do something "evil".

I'm not saying anything is nefarious, I'm just saying it can be done. As far wifi triangulation goes it would be used to strengthen signal in the park and to hopefully send more cm to areas where signal is being used more. Say the software says there is 10 people in the park in one are and 100 in another if more staffing is needed they would know quicker and could add more support to those areas

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The system will very likely know when a guest is in the gift shop after a ride, and know how long they stay. Doorways are the most likely places for the readers to be installed. Being able to send a message to a guest while they're in a fairly specific location (inside a store, in a land, in a specific park) is very likely an important part of the implementation. So the part about a child getting a message about a specific item while they're in the store where it's sold is certainly technically possible.

But you have to "tap" the reader, most folks won't be looking to tap the reader and its seem obvious that the MagicBand readers will just be installed where guests can use them, i.e. restaurants, paying for stuff, rides. I'm pretty sure Disney won't put the readers into door frames to track people out of the hope that they will tap them!

The tracking thing presumes that Disney will use the smart phone app to do this . . . doubt it, unless people want this and agree to it.

OTOH, targeting children when their parents are specifically not present, while technically possible, is very highly unlikely. It isn't easy to come up with a business reason to track groups as they subdivide, and there are too many people involved to imagine something that deliberately evil making it into the implementation (if for no other reason that there are always far more legitimate and profitable features that could be developed than there is time in the schedule and money in the budget).

Agree^.

MagicBands will make $ because the gift shop will have a MagicBand reader. I can't see Disney follow specific people in the park because everybody is a potential customer for something. If they put a Mermaid gift shop at the end of the Mermaid ride they make tons of $, more than if they stalked all of the kids in WDW!

 

[Disneyhead'71]

And I believe you are 100% wrong.

There won't be special towers set up for triangulation or GPS location. An app is just something that allows you to use a cellphone to access information via the internet. Phone companies would have a fit if somehow Disney tried to hack the different types of phones to locate you.

Nobody has put on the table a realistic way in which this technology could be perverted for great harm to guests or their kids.

The weirdo politician from Mass was just showboating, and trolling for attention, by asking Disney about privacy issues which no doubt the lawyers are making sure everything is up to snuff.

They don't need GPS to track these bracelets. An LPS system would suffice and Disney has been on the forefront of developing that tech and has been using that system for years on Pooh's Honey Hunt in Tokyo. I do believe that that is one of the reasons that these Magical Bracelets has an active transmitter in it.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The reason I really am on the fence about this is because technically I've already given disney the majority of the info that the magic band collects. They already know what I've spent on if I have a credit card tied to my room. They already know the size of my family and age of my children due to reservations. They already know where I am the majority of the time due to park tickets and where I use my kttw. They know what toy preferences my kids have due to charges. They know what rides I frequent due to fast pass, they even know if I abuse fast pass by getting them and not returning. I know there are privacy issues, but the majority of us here have been in the system a long time. Now do I like fast pass+ no, not a fan I like to be spontaneous on a vacation, having teenagers doesn't help planning either.

I think the decisions Disney would make on product preferences are simply what is selling in the gift shops and what isn't, and doesn't require them to track specific guests to get data. They've had reams of data for decades, before credit cards even, and have a pretty good idea who their target customer is and what they want.

I think NextGen is simply greasing the wheels so guests can buy more, and wait less in certain lines, and maybe add some special extras that guests, quite frankly, love.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yes, it is creepy. That is why a growing number of us have reservations about it. There is a lot more under the hood than concierge type services and experiences.

It is creepy, but what is creepier is that the idea that this is what they intend to do has only been generated by the WDWMagic crew.

Having been a parent of young children I would go on record now and let all you childless folks who think they know what motivates a parent to spend more money on their children is not what you folks are describing. If I'm on my way out of the park, tired and spent, from my days activities that involved making sure my kids didn't get there hand, hair, leg or whatever appendage caught in a ride mechanism, told them over a hundred times to stop whining we are going to have fun whether they like it or not, tramped about a million miles seeking out Fastpasses and so on, Disney could write their names in fireworks, begging them to buy that stuffed critter and it still wouldn't happen. The individual has control and if they are milk soppy enough to be controlled by their children then they deserve all the cash draining that Disney can muster. I hope they leave broke and hopelessly in debt. If an individual allows anyone, Disney or otherwise, to control them, why should I care.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

They don't need GPS to track these bracelets. An LPS system would suffice and Disney has been on the forefront of developing that tech and has been using that system for years on Pooh's Honey Hunt in Tokyo. I do believe that that is one of the reasons that these Magical Bracelets has an active transmitter in it.

And you'd most likely be wrong.

For Disney to get real time info on your location, and somebody correct me if I am wrong, but you'd have to transmit a Wi-Fi signal or cell phone signal, the bracelets don't have this, but do have a short range type device which isn't strong enough to locate from large distances, say greater than a foot or so.

LPS for rides is much different in terms of electronics and setup.

If somebody has the specs and can say if the system is passive or active, that would help, but I think they *might* be passive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-frequency_identification

Something tells me that the MagicBands won't have batteries in them, but use passive EM induction technology.

 

[M.rudolf]

Hey pixel dust I downloaded disneys app and the first thing it asked was can disney use your current location, so they are currently now tracking your location in the parks