ULPO46
Well-Known Member
The more I continue hearing about this crap the more and more I dislike the project It is a waste of money no matter what and will probably take two years to pay off again.
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Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
This is the first time I've ever heard of a company actually penalizing its customers for not spending enough. It's under the guise of incentives, but in reality it's punishing the core audience.
A good incentive program is something that is a "bonus" and can benefit everyone without taking away from others. This isn't a bonus – it's robbing from the poor and giving to the rich.
The "What would Walt do?" phrase is nauseatingly overused. In this case though, this program is absolutely 100% directly the opposite of what Walt would have wanted for his parks. Yes, this is a business. But Walt's business model was to make the parks a special place, where no guest is valued any more than any other.
Once you value one guest over another, you ruin the entire "Disney experience". If this is how NextGen is going to work, it's truly disgusting.
A good incentive program is something that is a "bonus" and can benefit everyone without taking away from others. This isn't a bonus – it's robbing from the poor and giving to the rich.
The "What would Walt do?" phrase is nauseatingly overused. In this case though, this program is absolutely 100% directly the opposite of what Walt would have wanted for his parks. Yes, this is a business. But Walt's business model was to make the parks a special place, where no guest is valued any more than any other.
Once you value one guest over another, you ruin the entire "Disney experience". If this is how NextGen is going to work, it's truly disgusting.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
It's not a completely sunk cost... they're already spending money on KTTW cards and they'll probably make $10.30 profit every time they sell an R2-D2 MagicBand for $10.95.
M.rudolf
Well-Known Member
You'll get royalties off the space ranger band right
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
This is disney we're talking about here, try 25-30 bucks.
SirLink
Well-Known Member
Oh come on we all know those POTC/StarWars/Marvel/Princess bands will go for $49.95 ... this is Disney...
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
Cha-ching!
Just imagine how much the limited edition set of magic bands with all the EPCOT Center pavilion logos will be on Epcot's 40th anniversary...
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
Buying a churro may not be revealing, but spending hundreds of dollars on merchandise certainly is. That's the thing though, they're tracking everything, some of it relevant, some of it not.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
This is a perfect example. There are chili dogs available at the lunching pad - replace churros with chili dogs and you have the type of stuff that is very possible. Stitch's burp could change to a churro burp to increase churro sales.
tomman710
Well-Known Member
I know I am quoting myself here (which is a bit self-promoting, or like the kids are saying, "Mongelloing") ... anyway I couldn't stop thinking all weekend about what $2 billion dollars could have done to the parks in terms of maintenance and new attractions ... (which of course infuriated me further) ...
I think you'll have a hard time selling me on that if the $2 billion allocated correctly in proper maintenance and really cutting edge E-tickets would not have done more for attendance, buzz, marketing, dollars in tickets/merch/hotel stays/dining and ultimately (here's the key) leading to a POSITIVE over all experience ... OVER the $2 billion used for NEXTGEN which might make them their money, but if not creating an atmosphere of indifference will result in a blah or negative experience.
They can't discount the rooms too much though (although what you say makes sense, especially like how Vegas does it). The only reason Disney doesn't flip out at their lower occupancy rates is because of the rate they are getting for that room.
There is a long track record of negative results of charging people for things that used to be free. (see: online newspapers charging for content).
That's what she said?
Beholder
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with the notion that people will spend what they're going to spend regardless if it's being monitored or "data mined". But, I'm also having a hard time coming up with a reason this benefits the customer/guest more, or even equals what WDW gets from this. Giving me something "extra" that we all used to get isn't that wonderful. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm feeling like WDW/TDO thinks I'm not very smart or I simply don't care. Again, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but so far, that's my take.
I tried. I really did try to read all 129 pages of this thread because it was so darn interesting but alas I must admit I had to skip chunks of pages before my eyes melted.
I really like this thread/forum. There really seems to be a lot of caring people on here. But that brings with it soooo much complaining about everything.
But in the end, after I was done, I still came to one conclusion.
I love Walt Disney World.
I hope all of the issues and management failings get worked out along with the constant display of corporate greed over the customer experience. But my reality is that I will continue to go for the joy that it was and now is for my 2 and almost 4 year old. I am so ecstatic to be able to take them where I have so many great memories. I was born in Jan 1971 and have been to Disney once or twice every year since that opening year. Having stayed on property most of the first 20 years and now being off property a stones throw away as a timeshare owner. All of these trips made from Pennsylvania.
Oh the memories. I just hope a lot of these issues and ill-planned cost cutting measures get worked out over time. All of these trips over the years and I've never been to Universal. No real plans to go either. But I see it in our future as my kids grow up if Disney doesn't do more to expand for the middle-aged kids and adult patrons.
Anyways, I still love WDW. There, I said it. Thanks for all the great posts.
I really like this thread/forum. There really seems to be a lot of caring people on here. But that brings with it soooo much complaining about everything.
But in the end, after I was done, I still came to one conclusion.
I love Walt Disney World.
I hope all of the issues and management failings get worked out along with the constant display of corporate greed over the customer experience. But my reality is that I will continue to go for the joy that it was and now is for my 2 and almost 4 year old. I am so ecstatic to be able to take them where I have so many great memories. I was born in Jan 1971 and have been to Disney once or twice every year since that opening year. Having stayed on property most of the first 20 years and now being off property a stones throw away as a timeshare owner. All of these trips made from Pennsylvania.
Oh the memories. I just hope a lot of these issues and ill-planned cost cutting measures get worked out over time. All of these trips over the years and I've never been to Universal. No real plans to go either. But I see it in our future as my kids grow up if Disney doesn't do more to expand for the middle-aged kids and adult patrons.
Anyways, I still love WDW. There, I said it. Thanks for all the great posts.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with you but suggest you should consider looking at it as if you were a senior Disney executive.
Prior to the opening of Carsland, Disney had mixed success creating a buzz with anything smaller than the scale of an entire new theme park. At today's Disney's inefficiencies, developing a 5th Gate (for example) would cost billions, much more than NextGen. Even then, the buzz created is fleeting. How many people get excited (for example) to head to WDW in 2013 because of DAK (opened in 1998) or DHS (opened in 1989)?
The buzz (in terms of actual theme park attendance) associated with WDW's most recent success (Expedition Everest) is measured in a few percentage points, about 6.5% at DAK according to TEA's 2007 report. Attendance at Epcot and DHS were up 4.5% that year, suggesting a good portion of the increase might have simply been to a stronger economy (right before the bubble burst). Attendance has been relatively flat since then. Although well received, popular attractions such as Mission Space, Soarin', and Toy Story Mania appear to have been significantly less successful financially. And they we have examples such as the American Idol Experience. At best, Disney executives would have viewed building new attractions as risky investments when the decision was made to green light NextGen.
From a financial perspective, NextGen does not put all of its eggs in one basket. NextGen should help reduce operating expense by allowing Disney to more carefully schedule its resources. NextGen should encourage onsite guests to stay within WDW since they will have guaranteed FP+. NextGen, with preferred benefits for onsite guests, should help with room occupancy and allow Disney to curtail the expensive EMH and "Free Dining" offers. NextGen can be "sold" to inexperienced WDW guests as a way to improve their vacations with guaranteed FP+ and "customized" service. Finally, NextGen permits Disney to collect data allowing for more effective advertising. (Disney's entire advertising budget is almost $2B per year!)
Rather than maybe receiving a one-time bump from a new attraction or land (how is the "New" Fantasyland helping sales so far?
), NextGen allows Disney to optimize the revenue it collects from all 100% of WDW's "guests". A 6.5% attendance increase comes with a corresponding incremental cost. Instead, get the existing guests to spend another 6.5% for what are essentially the same set of attractions and services, well, that's just pure profit.Perhaps 70-80% of WDW's visitors have visited 3 times or less. For the most part, these folks are too inexperienced to notice quality issues, too enthralled in the moment to notice the imperfections. Experienced WDW visitors might notice these problems but NextGen isn't targeting them. NextGen is targeting WDW's larger "only-a-few-times-in-a-lifetime" guests, guests who are more likely to splurge because their WDW vacations are few and far between.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
And that's why all of us (who also love WDW) pay higher prices for lower quality and fewer new attractions, because the executives running WDW know that the public will, by and large, accept lower standards and still love WDW. We all suffer because there are enough people who see the problems and still say, "yeah, but it's Walt Disney World and I love it anyway".
We get what we deserve.
Me, I've been taking most of my business elsewhere lately. But I want WDW to be better; I want WDW to be my #1 choice again (after my DW and children, of course
). So I continue to encourage others to acknowledge what's happening at WDW right now and, in whatever way they think most appropriate, to let Disney know they are unhappy with WDW's direction.
tomman710
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with you but suggest you should consider looking at it as if you were a senior Disney executive.
Prior to the opening of Carsland, Disney had mixed success creating a buzz with anything smaller than the scale of an entire new theme park. At today's Disney's inefficiencies, developing a 5th Gate would cost billions, much more than NextGen. Even then, the buzz created is fleeting. How many people get excited (for example) to head to WDW in 2013 because of DAK (opened in 1998) or DHS (opened in 1989)?
The buzz (in terms of actual theme park attendance) associated with WDW's most recent success (Expedition Everest) is measured in a few percentage points, about 6.5% at DAK according to TEA's 2007 report. Attendance at Epcot and DHS were up 4.5% that year, suggesting a good portion of the increase might have simply been to a stronger economy (right before the bubble burst). Attendance has been relatively flat since then. Although well received, popular attractions such as Mission Space, Soarin', and Toy Story Mania appear to have been significantly less successful financially. And they we have examples such as the American Idol Experience. At best, Disney executives would have viewed building new attractions as risky investments when the decision was made to green light NextGen.
From a financial perspective, NextGen does not put all of its eggs in one basket. NextGen should help reduce operating expense by allowing Disney to more carefully schedule its resources. NextGen should encourage onsite guests to stay within WDW since they will have guaranteed FP+. NextGen, with preferred benefits for onsite guests, should help with room occupancy and allow Disney to curtail the expensive EMH and "Free Dining" offers. NextGen can be "sold" to inexperienced WDW guests as a way to improve their vacations with guaranteed FP+ and "customized" service. Finally, NextGen permits Disney to collect data allowing for more effective advertising. (Disney's entire advertising budget is almost $2B per year!)
Rather than maybe receiving a one-time bump from a new attraction or land (how is the "New" Fantasyland helping sales so far?
Perhaps 70-80% of WDW's visitors have visited 3 times or less. For the most part, these folks are too inexperienced to notice quality issues, too enthralled in the moment to notice the imperfections. Experienced WDW visitors might notice these problems but NextGen isn't targeting them. NextGen is targeting WDW's larger "only-a-few-times-in-a-lifetime" guests, guests who are more likely to splurge because their WDW vacations are few and far between.
First off I do not EVER suggest building a 5th gate.
And I don't disagree with your points, hence when I said ... "I think you'll have a hard time selling me on that if the $2 billion allocated correctly in proper maintenance and really cutting edge E-tickets" ... I used the qualifiers of "correctly" "proper" and "really cutting edge" ... this acknowledges TDO's current track record of limitations when it comes to truly "wow" level attractions.
"New" Fantasyland, I think we all knew from the get go that was not going to be tremendous profit boost or even something they could market to generate buzz ... just as an example.
However, I think we are on the same wavelength mostly because your last two paragraphs I would use to support my point which was $2 billion in maintenance and attractions would ultimately lead to more profits than NextGen, it might not have been a huge difference initially but a difference with sustainable and long term profits ... My problem is they are looking at short term profit boosts instead of using foresight to ingrain the type of brand loyalty they were known for ... NextGen is not something that is going to make people yearn to come back, or something they'll tell all their friends about ("Hey, guys guess what?! We got to pick our fastpasses six months in advance!! Disney sent me text messages with coupons to buy stock merchandise!!") Sure it'll suck every dollar out of them while they are there but then what? I work for a multi-million dollar company, (yes not multi-billion like Disney), and we understand that it's OK to make less profit off a client on the initial deal if it means continued business from them for years to come.
My thoughts were the $2 billion COULD have been used to maintain attractions and build something (hopefully more technologically advanced than Everest, TSM, or FLE) that really WOWED people. The Disney brand should be known for immersible one of a kind experiences and cutting edge story telling ... you know, to keep them coming back.
ULPO46
Well-Known Member
This has to be the best quote on this thread sure it's expensive but no matter what it's Disney world and we all have memories wether we were old when we first went or were toddlers who closed our ears when we heard the fireworks. It's still disney world no matter what and I don't care if it is different it is still one mans dream and it became a reality for you and me and that's the start of a great big beautiful tomorrow.And that's why all of us (who also love WDW) pay higher prices for lower quality and fewer new attractions, because the executives running WDW know that the public will, by and large, accept lower standards and still love WDW. We all suffer because there are enough people who see the problems and still say, "yeah, but it's Walt Disney World and I love it anyway".
We get what we deserve.
Me, I've been taking most of my business elsewhere lately. But I want WDW to be better; I want WDW to be my #1 choice again (after my DW and children, of course