Space Mountain

Brian Noble

Well-Known Member
One more thought: if you really want to see the Powers That Be do something radical with MK, hope that Universal hits a home run with their Kuka arm in Potterland. That would raise the stakes nicely.

If Universal flames out, I'm guessing it will continue to be business as usual: incremental upgrades for MK, with the bulk of the investment going to other parks.
 

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
Ask Disneyland. (Answer: it will work. For a while. Then, you lose.)

Guys, I get why we are all disappointed, but Enigma is right---MK is the single best-attended theme park in the world. From a purely business standpoint, it doesn't make that much sense to go overboard with upgrades to the park, 'cause the peeps keep flooding in. What's more, it's not clear how much higher attendance could go in the current physical infrastructure so if you want to monetize any improvements, you might have to do it through admission increases instead.

Worse, it looks like the economy might be starting to have an impact in Lake Buena Vista. Free Dining and a room discount all the way up to Christmas? That's absolutely unheard of, and to me sounds a little bit desperate. If things don't get straightened out on Wall Street pretty soon, Main Street may follow, and that's exactly the wrong time to spend a big bunch of money on park upgrades if you want to keep your job---no ROI.

Anyway, I have some hope. Mansion is great. Pirates isn't all it could be, but it's a nice improvement. Space could end up being interesting, and as with all things Disney, we probably won't know until it happens.

Resting on ones laurels is also the easiest way to lose the #1 spot. Especially with global competition heating up, and the weak dollar, this is a time for Disney to look past its accountants and do something to keep the overseas fans coming in.
 

Timon

Well-Known Member
The problem with most rehabs is that they do nothing for the front gate. As nice as the HM rehab was it's not enough for Marketing to hang a year or two advertising program on. EE is still being pushed in ads and commercials almost two years after the grand opening.

I've been riding SM since day one, but it's time for some real Imagineering. The building is fantastic and the largest SM in the world. If the entire interior was replaced, Marketing would have something heavy duty to push for years. As attractions costs go replacing the interior saves millions vs new from virgin ground up.

With room for two tracks, why have two identical tracks? Why not one kick-butt state of art track and one DL SM style track?
 

Brian Noble

Well-Known Member
Especially with global competition heating up, and the weak dollar, this is a time for Disney to look past its accountants and do something to keep the overseas fans coming in.
Tricky---it looks as though the company as a whole has decided to bring Disney overseas instead. Especially if oil doesn't retreat, the exchange rate might be offset by higher transportation costs to cross an ocean.
 

culturenthrills

Well-Known Member
Ask Disneyland. (Answer: it will work. For a while. Then, you lose.)

Guys, I get why we are all disappointed, but Enigma is right---MK is the single best-attended theme park in the world. From a purely business standpoint, it doesn't make that much sense to go overboard with upgrades to the park, 'cause the peeps keep flooding in. What's more, it's not clear how much higher attendance could go in the current physical infrastructure so if you want to monetize any improvements, you might have to do it through admission increases instead.

Well, the problem alot of us have is just because your number one doesn't mean you get to rest on your laurels. Name another major park in the world that hasn't added a major attraction in 16 years. TDL is one of the highest attended parks in the world and for awhile was #1. You don't see them resting on their laurels. It is all about management and the management of MK sucks.
 

culturenthrills

Well-Known Member
Worse, it looks like the economy might be starting to have an impact in Lake Buena Vista. Free Dining and a room discount all the way up to Christmas? That's absolutely unheard of, and to me sounds a little bit desperate. If things don't get straightened out on Wall Street pretty soon, Main Street may follow, and that's exactly the wrong time to spend a big bunch of money on park upgrades if you want to keep your job---no ROI.

Actually an economic downturn is the perfect time to reinvest in the park. You make improvements to your infrastructure and when the economy turns around you have all these improvements when the park needs it. MK is the cash cow of WDW. Alot of this is because of the after hours events. But the management has allowed the park to be run into the ground. I have no problem with extended hours and after hours events but that should mean they put even more of an effort in keeping the park updated and looking amazing. Not letting it rundown and fall apart.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Resting on ones laurels is also the easiest way to lose the #1 spot. Especially with global competition heating up, and the weak dollar, this is a time for Disney to look past its accountants and do something to keep the overseas fans coming in.

Here's the thing though, Disney hasn't been losing ground, let alone losing the top spot. I think as soon as they start to lose ground to the likes of Universal, Busch Gardens, Sea World, et al is when you see Disney ramp up their investments in the park.

I, like many others on this site are hoping for huge things out of Universal as nothing would be better for us fans than Theme Park Wars.

Disney needs to be pushed by the competition, and although the majority of us on here are devoted fans, I would suggest going over to some of the other parks in the area, and enjoying what they have to offer. One of two things will happen, 1. You will appreciate Disney that much more after seeing what you deem as an inferior product, or 2. You will feel obligated to visit these other parks on every trip, expanding your entertainment options. If more people opt for #2, the hope would then be that Disney would see a notable decline in attendance (relative to Universal), and feel obligated to improve their parks.
 

camperdave

New Member
Hmm. I can certainly say that space mountain in WDW needs a major upgrade.

However, if they fix it up too much, I'll miss out on my favorite game - putting my hands up, and remembering exactly when I have to pull them down to avoid hitting ride supports!
 

Brian Noble

Well-Known Member
Actually an economic downturn is the perfect time to reinvest in the park. You make improvements to your infrastructure and when the economy turns around you have all these improvements when the park needs it.
This idea is also called "build it and they will come." History has shown that for theme parks, it doesn't work.

Exhibit 1: Six Flags in the Kieran Burke era---they ran several parks into the ground (they were the beginning of the end of Worlds of Adventure, and almost killed Magic Mountain) by overbuilding attractions in the hope it would drive attendance. Now that Shapiro is CEO, Six Flags has grown much more carefully and prudently, focusing instead on improving service and the in-park experience, and it is working. Attendance is up, and this is expected to be their first cash-flow-positive year. Ever. In the entire history of the company.

Exhibit 2: Hard Rock Park in Myrtle Beach. This is a park much closer to IOA or a Disney park than is your typical Six Flags. In other words, they did it right. A very immersive experience, not just a collection of rides. But, they built a big-a**'d park out of nothing, and their business plan expected 3M guests in the first year. I think they might have gotten half that. They just filed Chapter 11. They still hope to operate in 2009.

Exhibits 3a and 3b: Cedar Fair and Universal. Both of these companies build slowly. They do not install a new attraction unless they have evidence that attendance is growing to support it. Cedar Fair acquired all the Paramount parks two years ago. Universal is growing internationally. Slow and steady wins the race.

Exhibit 4: DCA. Another big park out of nothing. Arguably, another failure. It certainly never measured up to attendance expectations.

Exhibits 5a and 5b: AK and DS. Both were opened "small", with a handful of attractions each. As attendance grew in each park, additional attractions were added to keep the momentum going, but only as growth warranted. DS is a legitimate three-meal park. AK is very close.

This is a business. As RSox points out "resting on their laurels" only resulted in the Resort capturing a larger share of Orlando tourism, without a major new capital investment in MK. And, for the resort as a whole, that makes sense. MK doesn't need the investment in the same way that the other parks do.

That's not to say that there will never be a new, big addition to MK. There almost certainly will be. But, it seems clear that there are other places to spend the money that will bring more overall $$ into the Rat's coffers.
 

Glasgow

Well-Known Member
No one has really mentioned yet (although, yes, it has been implied) that Disney is still a publicly-owned company the last I heard. This means they answer to the share holders 100%, meaning that they get their way, first and foremost. Mgmt must convince the shareholders that it is prudent to re-invest back into the parks instead of garnering huge dividends .. I don't know about you, but it's always a tough sell.

My point? I think Mgmt deserves a little bit of slack as these are difficult economic times, plus no one here knows everything that is going on behind closed doors. Perhaps if money was no object then Mgmt would do every rehab the way that we think Walt would have wanted it .. but unfortunately the dollar determines most of those decisions.

Lets wait and see what happens with the SM refurb or at least wait for a few more details before we starting yelling S.O.S and jumping overboard.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
^ not in this case. The rehab was cleared, scheduled and planned. Management are scared to close for more than 6 months for fear of complaints.

They`ll have a lot more complaints should they have a DLC situation on their hands.
 

joel_maxwell

Permanent Resident of EPCOT
^ not in this case. The rehab was cleared, scheduled and planned. Management are scared to close for more than 6 months for fear of complaints.

They`ll have a lot more complaints should they have a DLC situation on their hands.
That is ridiculous on their part. Seriously!

If that is the case Martin, damn them. :mad: In the grand scheme of things, 6+ months isnt that much time for this type of rehab that would last multiple years.
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
^ not in this case. The rehab was cleared, scheduled and planned. Management are scared to close for more than 6 months for fear of complaints.

They`ll have a lot more complaints should they have a DLC situation on their hands.

Who cares about complaints? Disneyland had their SM closed for almost 2 years and it all paid-off in the end.

Does management have no capability of forward thinking what-so-ever?:shrug:
 

Glasgow

Well-Known Member
^ not in this case. The rehab was cleared, scheduled and planned. Management are scared to close for more than 6 months for fear of complaints.

They`ll have a lot more complaints should they have a DLC situation on their hands.

If they are only factoring in present economic conditions and are recanting on previous plans then that is abysmal. Surely they will be able to look into their crystal ball and see that the originally planned changes are better for the long term sustainability of MK attendance.

I am wondering if all of the information is out there, though, and if people are getting upset based on rumors or verified fact.
 

dandaman

Well-Known Member
Cedar Fair and Universal. Both of these companies build slowly. They do not install a new attraction unless they have evidence that attendance is growing to support it. Cedar Fair acquired all the Paramount parks two years ago. Universal is growing internationally. Slow and steady wins the race.

Save for Cedar Point (new rides every year since 2000, though it's the flagship park so I understand), I'd agree on the above as well as the other points.

EDIT: Now I'm trying to remember if anything was added in 2004. :lol:
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
I hope that I dont have to change my avatar out of disgust! I have had it for years!

I'm thinking something along the lines of...
TunnelShift.jpg
 

MiklCraw4d

Member
If they are only factoring in present economic conditions and are recanting on previous plans then that is abysmal. Surely they will be able to look into their crystal ball and see that the originally planned changes are better for the long term sustainability of MK attendance.

Knee-jerk reactions to economic conditions have been hurting the WDW experience since we lost the Asian, Persian and Mediterranean... And Thunder Mesa... etc etc...
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Knee-jerk reactions to economic conditions have been hurting the WDW experience since we lost the Asian, Persian and Mediterranean... And Thunder Mesa... etc etc...

And in exchange we got:
  • Animal Kingdom Lodge
  • Old Key West Resort
  • Wilderness Lodge Villas
  • Beach Club Villas
  • Boardwalk Villas
  • Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa
  • Beach Club Resort
  • Boardwalk Inn
  • Grand Floridian Resort
  • Wilderness Lodge
  • Yacht Club Resort
  • Caribbean Beach
  • Coronado Springs
  • Port Orleans Riverside
  • Port Orleans French Quarter
  • All-Star Movies
  • All-Star Music
  • All-Star Sports
  • Pop Century Resort

    And

  • Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom