SPACE MOUNTAIN- I assure you, we are SOFT re-OPEN!!!

Travelguy31

Member
Sorry to post "off topic" I guess. :shrug: I just wanted to bring all of this SM back and forth back to reality. Im glad to see SM get an update that is desparately needed! No, its not everything that I had hoped for, but I just wanted to put things in perspective.

And please don't get me wrong, I love DL. Im just sayin'
 

Travelguy31

Member
I'll be at WDW in less than 30 days, so I'm very excited to ride SM to get a better feel for this refurb. That may change my whole opinion that i have at this point. :shrug:
 

mickey2008.1

Well-Known Member
I'll be at WDW in less than 30 days, so I'm very excited to ride SM to get a better feel for this refurb. That may change my whole opinion that i have at this point. :shrug:
I will be there in 29 days. and i agree. so far so good from pics and vids. its still my favorite, whether redone or not, astro orbitor cool as well. I shouldt like you, cause a christmas story was filmed here in cleveland:lol::xmas::xmas::lol:
 

lightboy

Member
Don't stress boys and girls about the lime green wall.

I'd put serious cash on it that wasn't by mistake.

That color green is only used for one thing...a green screen effect. You can guarantee that screens and cameras will be behind that temporary vinyl signage...giving that area an updated look and effect.
 

SMRT-1

Active Member
As pictured in an earlier post (by Mr. Epcot, I think), there is a little model of Spaceship Earth on a shelf behind the robot butler in the final scene of the Space Mountain post-show. It's not the one from the old SSE descent--the globe portion is a little bit larger than an average snow globe, and it has little pylon legs.

Edit:

4102778483_c2c1d0f76e_b.jpg

That crystal looking overhead light looks like it was from Horizons.
 

Skyway

Well-Known Member
SKYWAY'S SPACE MOUNTAIN REVIEW
------------------------------------------

First of all, anyone who is familiar with my posts knows I roll my eyes at idiocy ("It looks like a fountain! What? It's a planter? They're so cheap because they cut the fountain!") I think WDW/DL refurb comparisons are ridiculous because they are two entirely different beasts, with different structural issues and different roles in the resorts' strategy. And without blindly defending Disney, I understand the tough financial decisions it must make to avoid being one of those Wall Street darlings that has crumbled.

I expected the WDW SM refurb to have minor cosmetic updates, with most of the work being behind-the-scenes. In other words, I did not expect much new, but was confident I would like the refreshed "classic" ride.

With all that said, I gotta admit... I was underwhelmed. More underwhelmed than I would have ever imagined. (I'd say "disappointed", but I don't have "feelings" for a theme park ride)

Here's my take, step-by-step.

THE QUEUE

When I first saw photos of the old SM logo above the "ball pit", I liked it. But seeing it in person, it hit me than they simply replaced some cheap plastic signs with new ones. Same with the new Star Tunnel "map". (If I could be a Disney subcontractor on this ride, I would have been the plastic sign maker. That company was kept busy, because I'd say 25% of this rehab was swapping out old rear-illuminated plastic signs with new ones.)

The second thing I noticed entering the building was the fresh black wall paint, free of gross spit drips.

But the third thing I noticed (and I promise, I was not trying to find fault!) was that the metal grill panels under the queue railings are the '75 originals-- dull, worn, dirty metal that could have been easily replaced, but wasn't. It was such a contrast to the clean, repainted walls.

The Star Tunnel is unchanged. The lighting is nearly identical to the old FedEx colors. The only difference I noticed (and it may have always been there) was an odd, square-shaped cutout in the center queue rail about halfway down, giving a small patch of extra space on the FastPass side. It looked like it could be a place for wheelchairs to turn around or allow others to pass.

The games were not working, so I didn't get to see them. But I was impressed with how many screens there are, and how large they are.

The "Pepper's Ghost" objects in the star windows are spectacularly lit, better than I could have imagined. And some even have very defined areas painted in different colors. In particular, I noticed that the SM rocket (with old glow stripes and nose) zooming in circles now has "tourists" sitting in it instead of astronauts, and it seemed like their clothing and hair was all different colors (not all white as the objects it was previously) This was one of only a handful of things that really impressed me.

I didn't catch the safety video, but if they went to the expense of a new screen, I'm certain it will eventually be replaced with a new video.

The final queue room was not as awe-inspiring to me as those first photos of it seemed a few days ago. Other than the blue neon ceiling lights, it really is quite similar to the previous look. I like they kept the original "ceiling window" idea. I have great childhood memories of watching those spooky green rockets streaking through the darkness above, but I'm fine with the new enclosure. However, since it is no longer that unique view of a coaster, but instead projections of stars and a space station, the atmosphere is significantly lost (I don't think there was music in here. That might help.) The "sparkle" sealant on the concrete floor is OK (what can you really say about a floor?), but the workmanship appeared sloppy. It looked unevenly applied with obvious blobs, especially along the load track.

Mr. Plastic Sign Maker was hard at work here too, replacing those panels behind the load area. I found the new sayings like "check invisible oxygen shield" mildly amusing and effective at setting the new "story" of a Space Port, and much better than the old "prepare to launch".

I was initially surprised not to see the neon-lit load gates that DL has (they're just plain metal here). But with the new queue configuration, others in line would not see the gates anyway until boarding (unlike DL, where the queue circles overhead, and the load area is a focal point for the room).

I'm probably wrong, but it seemed like the two load zones were pushed back farther from the "launch area" than before, creating an "on deck" area for a whole rocket before it rounds the corner. I may not be remembering the old version correctly.

THE RIDE

The plastic seats attached to the sled are brand new. The old ones used to have smooth, shiny armrests that almost had a handle for your fingertips. These are slightly different. They have an apparently removable seat cover. These must be easier to clean or replace damaged seats.

Finally! The pre-launch safety spiel is timed to play only once as a rocket sits there waiting to dispatch. No more endless loop!

Now, what in the heck were they thinking when they changed the "whoop whoop" entry tunnel music?? That just felt like they changed something for the sake of change. It isn't as loud or as excitement-building. And that old sound was a classic (in fact, DL stole the music and the blue tunnel during their 05 refurb).

The sparkle effect at the end of that tunnel, while neat and unexpected, is totally unnecessary. The time and expense for that should have been put elsewhere. It's merely a one second flash.

Speaking of flash, next is the ride photo cameras. Awkward on many levels. It happens during a turn, so you don't get your bearings. The single flash is obviously from a camera (unlike DL's, which is hidden among several strobes in the reentry tunnel). And because the photo is snapped at a very dull moment of the ride, the faces of riders are pure emotionless! No smiles, screams, or even enjoyment!

The safety spiel booms once again as you start up the hill. But again, its thankfully not on a loop.

The lift hill props are well lit, although the sunglasses-wearing man in launch control now clearly looks like a mannequin because you can see him so well. I heard some spacey music while riding by on the TTA, but I didn't notice it while on the coaster. Also, this is the place where Mr. Plastic Sign Man gets his pay docked because he failed to put the replacement signs in properly, allowing light to leak out of the cracks.

The earth projection above the lift hill is missing. It gave a sense of depth to that scene, and is sorely missed. But it gives me hope that the mysterious black box on the ceiling in that same spot is some sort of video screen of earth that has not been activated yet.

At the top of the lift hill, you no longer see the lights of the queue opening below illuminating your rocket and the track structure in front of you.

However, that work of enclosing the queue is ruined by a new projection on the wall straight ahead of the lift hill. It's some kind of spinning galaxy or something. But it is so bright and so undefined, it looks like an unintentional spotlight shining on the wall...which illuminates your rocket and the track structure in front of you!

The other projections of galaxies on the ride are completely unchanged. Whoever said the projections seemed to be in HD must have much better eyes than me. They looked identical to before, possibly even using the same dim lightbulbs. This really unimpressed me.

The ride is much darker, no doubt. But it is not as inky black as I remember the DL coaster. Part of the reason may be the new star projector, that now illuminates the structure with bright stars (this isn't a bad thing. But from early reviews I imagined you would be absolutely blind. That's not the case).

The lift hill still provides a lot of light leakage. As before, the lift hill can be seen throughout much of the ride and gives you perspective on where you are in the mountain. The positive to this, though, is that you're reminded just how large and haphazard the track is.

The track is much smoother, but not like "brand new" track smooth. It feels more like the old track got a thick coat of hot grease. It feels faster and more out-of-control than ever before, yet oddly, much safer (my last few rides prior to the closure made me feel uncomfortably nervous). Unlike DL's new track, which has a friction noise and feel similar to riding a bike with the brake on, this one is much quieter now. So quiet, in fact, I got the impression that the structure is more rigid and vibrates less than before.

I gotta say, I forgot just how fun, widespread, and zippy SM's track is! And it was so much longer than I remember! The ride was great!

But after convincing myself that this SM would be OK with no on-board audio, I've decided I was wrong. Audio would help this thing immensely. It still feels like an old roller coaster (albeit a huge, exciting, fun coaster) in an immense warehouse.

As many have said, the old red reentry tunnel is inexcusable. At least they could have updated the sound effect on that, rather than the entry tunnel! If they could have done just one single thing to the ride, a memorable ending would have been it. Instead, it is as anti-climactic as it comes. (I never thought I'd say that.)

POST SHOW

Others have documented the post show quite well. Needless to say, that was my favorite part of the entire rehab, and the part that felt the most funded. They amazingly captured that "feel" of the original RCA display and Horizons, and yet modern! (Some other Disney attraction had a similar crystal dining room light, but I haven't had the chance to look at old photos yet. EDIT: I SEE SOMEONE FOUND IT JUST AS I WAS POSTING THIS! THAT'S IT!!!!!). The most surprising part of the Post Show is that NONE of us expected it would be done at all (or done that extensively, considering most people race by it on their way to another attraction).


FINAL THOUGHTS

Forget this was a 7 month rehab. Obviously most of that was used for operational upgrades. If you think of this as a quick 2 month refreshening (just as they did for CBJ recently), you'll have proper expectations.

Also, is it possible Disney still considers SM an attractive property to offer potential corporate sponsors? Sure, the economy stinks now. But once it picks up, Disney now has a refreshed attraction with plenty of places to plaster corporate logos (calling Mr. Plastic Sign Man!). Even more important, an infusion of corporate cash would allow them to finally add the on-board audio, enabling them to rebrand the ride as "new", and giving the new sponsor guaranteed publicity. Could this have been the plan all along????
 

timetopretend

New Member
I'm probably wrong, but it seemed like the two load zones were pushed back farther from the "launch area" than before, creating an "on deck" area for a whole rocket before it rounds the corner. I may not be remembering the old version correctly.

This is correct, although I have not seen the station in person. From my information before the refurb/soft opening there were some enhancements to the load configuration. These enhancements allowed for a dedicated seat check stop/console and then the "shuttle" proceeds to a hold before the launch position, which brings SM up to the seat check process occurring at other rides. This change theoretically could also increase numbers in the ride efficiency category(reading between the lines may be required).

Someone in a previous post mentioned noticeable cameras after the reentry tunnel on the winding track before unload. This track area is home to a few brake runs that add "blocks" to the ride which increases the number of "shuttles" that can be on the track at the same time. During the refurb motors were added to these brake runs to allow an automatic restart of the ride should it cascade (back up) from the unload station where it was completely manual before and caused lengthy downtimes. As a safety concern, these cameras are probably used to make sure everyone is still in their seats before starting the "shuttle" on its journey again.
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
Hey,I'm sure it's a very smooth rollercoaster and fun ride....but other than that I just don't see how it measures up past WDW's.

Again, I'm a student loan paying college student, I'll scrounge up the money for some cheap redeye flight to Disneyland and a night at a motel if someone would be kind to buy me a day pass to Disneyland and see for myself to ride Space Mtn and (I agree) superior Pirates and awesome HM facade LOL.

If I had any money, I'd buy you a day pass to DL so you can see for yourself how much fun the Matterhorn Bobsleds are. But I'd advise you to skip their Space Mountain, and instead spend that time on something that's truly superior at DL, such as Pirates, or not present at WDW, such as Indy, Roger Rabbit, or any number of Fantasyland attractions.

Once you visit DL, you'll see that it's a far superior park to the MK. And you'll also see how much care and attention has been given to so many aspects of the park that are desperately lacking at the MK. That said, however, you'll also see that there are still a couple of things that the MK does better.

But you'll never hear anyone argue that, in those cases where DL has the inferior version of an attraction, that attraction must be "stuck in the '70s" or should be "gutted" or "razed" -- and made exactly the same as the WDW version -- in order to make it acceptable. You'll never hear, for example, someone contend that DL's HM should be completely taken apart and rebuilt from scratch in order to add the extra scenes that are in WDW's longer version.

Yet you hear people argue repeatedly that WDW's SM is an utter failure and an embarrassment largely because -- queue and post-show notwithstanding -- it lacks two primary things that DL's has: "better" effects during the ride, and onboard audio.

In regard to those better effects: watch any YouTube video, and you'll see that there really aren't that many effects in DL's SM. It's not like there are projections or props along the entire length of the track; as you would expect, it's mostly just a series of sudden turns in the dark. The re-entry certainly has a different effect than WDW's -- and it's an effect that is inarguably more technologically sophisticated than WDW's roaring red tube. But, as I've said elsewhere in this thread, even if DL's re-entry tunnel can be considered marginally better, the difference between the two re-entry effects is not so immense as to justify the conclusion that DL's ride -- on the whole -- is "vastly superior" to WDW's.

Which brings us back to onboard audio, which seems to be the dividing line between "outdated relic of the past" and "exciting, Disney-quality attraction of the future" to so many. To me, the onboard audio on DL's SM is like a laugh track for a sitcom... If what I'm hearing and seeing on the TV is amusing, I don't need audio cues for me to laugh. If what I'm hearing and seeing is not amusing, the presence of a laugh track not only won't make me laugh, it'll annoy me because I'll feel like it's trying to force me to do something I don't feel like doing. As much as I like the music that plays in DL's SM (and I think it's a great score) -- it can't instill in me the feelings of excitement and enjoyment that I feel naturally on WDW's SM.

Someone mentioned the Raiders March... I love the Raiders March, but it worked for the earlier IJ movies because they were great movies, and the music and the action in the movies went hand-in-hand to create a whole that was greater than the sum of its parts. When I heard the same music in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, however, it only irked me because a great piece of music was being attached to an inferior product in a transparent effort to make me forget just how inferior the product was.

I understand that people have different opinions. If you think DL's SM is better than WDW's, then you're welcome to that opinion. However, what I find disturbing is the fact that, for many people who hold that opinion, this WDW SM refurb has somehow become the overarching symbol of general TDO mediocrity -- and anyone who believes that WDW's SM is now (or has always been) fine just as it is, isn't simply someone with a different opinion, but rather a fanatic naif who will unquestioningly accept anything from Disney, thus contributing directly to the decline of what was once a quality institution.

What can't I just be someone who has a different opinion?
 

Rob562

Well-Known Member
This time around, I discovered that the queue can get a lot more complicated than I thought. This time we went back just past the the control tower and turned left into the switchbacks. We winded around in there until it reached the middle back wall with the Alpha and Omega on it. If you go left for Alpha, you actually go behind the cargo container wall. We were directed to Omega, which just goes into the single row of queue along back there.


Hmmm... I wonder if my diagram that I posted in another thread about how I'd solve the queue layout issue is closer to reality than I thought... I'll be very interested to see how they use the queue once the mountain officially opens and they throw FastPass users into the mix.


Seriously funny. I'd hope in the future they would at least come up with a better and cooler way to say "Invisible Oxygen Dome" than literally just saying "Invisible Oxygen Dome".

All I can think of is Bender saying it..."Checking Invisible Oxygen DomeThingie...Or whatever."



Actually, I'm hearing it as Timekeeper saying it along the lines of his "Raising neutrino shield..." ;)

-Rob
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I am more of a fan of DL's lifthill tunnel, especially how it uses projection to make it feel like your rotating. Show scenes are great and all, but I'm also a fan of the tunnel.

Question to WDW1974- What would make WDW's space mountain better than DL's in your opinion?

I'm not sure I can asnwer that question fairly right now ... very long night at the office so to speak. But I just saw the post and since this Seinfeldian thread might hit 178 pages before I can return ... well, let's see if I can 'splain this as I am nodding off:snore::snore::snore: ...

Better than DL would be a complete upgrade of ride experience (probably 90% of what was done in this rehab had NOTHING to do with that). Again, doesn't mean it would have to be a wild looping track ... or even adding sound (although I do believe this is such a simple and, yes, cheap addition ... which shows how cheap TDO went on this) ... but a reworking and updating that would make the attraction cutting edge again, like it was in the 70s and well into the 80s.

PoC and Small World and BTMRR can be timeless with minor tweaking. By nature of its story and placement, SM can't.

And the idea that 70s nostalgia is the new theme is so beyond lame it makes DinoRama a work of genius by comparison.

You just don't dumb something that was once so great and groundbreaking down to such an incredibly LCD level ... even if some foamed up fanbois are sliding around in their puddles.

Did that help at all?:xmas:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Nobody should praise TDO over a wall being painted, that should be expected maintenance :lol:

Agreed.

But have you seen the threads where basic maintaining of structures (something any business, let alone Disney parks should be doing) is cause for dancing in the streets by some here? :shrug::brick::hammer:

Talk about too much pixie dust in the diet (BTW, since I hate WDW so much I booked a 10 day stay this afternoon as a present to my favorite Spirit!):xmas::xmas::xmas:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
To 74 & the rest of the whiners responding in this thread:

I'm not a whiner, so grow up and don't engage in name-calling.

If I point out simple facts that you don't like, deal with them like an adult.

Space Mountain is fundamentally the same creaky, flawed old turd it was before the redo. As someone who loved the attraction for decades and has been sickened by its state for over a decade, that isn't good enough.

I've been on Disneyland's SM quite often now, being a new resident of southern california (go annual pass!). While I do love and appreciate the on-board audio and lift tunnel, I don't really understand why it's so monumentally important that these two things be included for you whiners to be happy.

Hey, would it be wrong for me to say you're a dim bulb because you can't read what is written and ascribe views to others that aren't accurate.

While I enjoy sound in DL and HK and Paris, by no means do I feel it is necessary as I've said many times before. But doing almost nothing to the attraction isn't the way to go either.

What this equates to is that you wanted them to basically remove EVERYTHING inside the mountain, and design and build what amounts to a completely different roller coaster, since the current system has no way of physically supporting the added weight of an on-board audio system (no, I don't have the data to back that up, but think about it - these systems are designed very specifically to the finest detail by people with engineering degrees, to be able to handle a finite amount of weight - quit emailing me). You wanted this done during the single worst economic crisis in this country since the great depression. Oookay. I know you can't please everybody, but yikes.

Don't bring the economy into the discussion unless you can handle a big boy talk about the realities of our system of capitalism, the Wall Street fraud and TDO's inherently flawed and damaging business model.

The bottom line is Disney found $4 billion in this economy to buy Marvel Entertainment, in a deal that wasn't needed. Disney has found money to build a glut of DVCs (that would 'splain the EIGHT free APs -- four each at WDW and DL -- if I buy into the DVC, that was in today's mail!)

Disney has found the money to build two billion dollar cruise ships, a resort in Hawaii, expansion in Anaheim and Hong Kong -- and soon a $3.6 billion resort in Shanghai. Guess what? They could have found anywhere from $10 million to $100 million (this is an absurd amount just tossed in) to remake Space Mountain for a 21st century audience.


Another lapse in logic: We knew we weren't going to get an entirely new ride. So why are you people acting so surprised?

I'm not surprised in the least. What I am surprised about is how fickle fanbois get excited by paint and Horizons Easter eggs in the post show, while forgetting conveniently that Disney doesn't make those type of attractions anymore.


You guys are like spoiled kids on christmas, throwing their presents against the wall and screaming about how they didn't get that 21-speed bike...and of course, it's soooo easy to make a caricatured scapegoat out of TDO. No, I'm not saying they're saints or anything, but I find it way too convenient to direct tantrums at what amounts to a snidley whiplash-style cartoon villain. I can just see them now, with their monocles and black top hats, twirling their mustaches, and POURING over this thread as though their lives depended on it...

Yeah, right. Half of them probably think the internet is a tool used for catching trout. You ever think that maybe the reason they couldn't redo space mountain was because, oh, I don't know, a lack of time and money?

Of course it was. But it was a lack of time and money that they CHOSE!

A friend rode today and I wish I could repeat what he said, but since every other word was a non-magical term, I can't. I suspect my opinion will be likewise when I ride shortly.:xmas::xmas::xmas:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
It is subjective, but to say that nothing done to it at all is better than what is there now is just stupid.

:snore::snore::snore: sorry, tired ... but you are mischaracterizing my statements. I never said it was better before. Just that nothing of substance has changed. The record is very clear that I am right on that.

They did bring it into the 21st century, the look and feel of the que and post show is different, def. more futuristic looking than what was previously there.

Sorry, the queue isn't the ride. I first experienced this BS line when Kali River Rapids opened and had an amazingly beautiful queue and a godawful Six Flags-like raft ride.

When fans get excited over queues and not what follows, there's something wrong.


Like I said in the other post, if you were expecting them to gut it, they didn't so get over it. The so called "drooling" over it that you claim we're doing is probably because we like what we see. It's better than finding fault in everything they did, not just with this refurb but with every decision they've made this past decade. This isnt 1974 anymore, so maybe you should just accept that and move on.


I have accepted that. Who wants to live in the past? But I won't watch Disney lower standards and quality and have apologists defend it without countering. ... And so the game goes on.:xmas::snore::xmas:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Not in a major way, TO YOU. So what if other people like it, let em like it. If you cant see anything good in it, than thats your handicap.

People can see good in whatever they want ... from Sarah Palin to crappy American cars to Walmart to this attraction. They can see what they want.

But there is nothing 'handicapped' about seeing clearly what was done and what wasn't.

I guess all the positive posts you make do die, because I dont think I've ever read one. But whatever, if you dont like the refurb thats your issue. You can dedicate your energy trying to convince people that nothing on Space mt. has improved, but not just that but that WDW is stale and all the other negativity you generate. I can somewhat agree with some of your insight about WDW, but this space refurb is good.

Can't wait till Jan.

They die because my 'critics' here won't go near them because if so they'd have to acknowledge that I am very fair and that I love WDW with a deep passion. It's much easier to focus on the negative stuff. But again, I just booked a 10-day stay, so I must really hate the place!:drevil::goodnevil:xmas:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Who here is in a position to define "what a WDW experience is supposed to be"? This is the primary flaw in your arguments. YOU have an expectation, YOU have a standard for this-or-that. Your expectations don't necessarily match that of other people or current TDO management. Others may view your expectations as unnecessarily high, unrealistic, and/or overly focused on things that don't really matter.

I'm willing to give you a lot of your other points. Yes, there have been cuts of "little things". Yes, the Space Mountain refurb does not appear to have significantly improved the guest experience.

However, people still enjoy and are entertained by WDW. It's not because they're stupid ("dumbed down") or toadies for TDO, but because there is still very much about the World that is entertaining. If the average guest perceives a reduction in value of a WDW trip (because it is "stale", perhaps), that guest may not return soon or at all. However, if the average guest doesn't notice or care about the "lesser" product (or considers the product improved), they will continue to return. Expectations for a WDW trip are subjective, and people have wildly varying tastes in entertainment. You seem to think that your subjective "higher" expectations for WDW are somehow better than other people's expectations, because they are aligned with the TDO of the past. Your expectations are just different from others.

The current TDO management runs the business in a way that you don't like. Their priorities don't match yours the same way that previous TDO management's did. That's a shame. If there are enough people like you, WDW's profits will go down and management will likely change their course. That's for them to decide. You can rail all you want about "wal-marting", but focusing money and attention on what a company thinks will be profitable is their prerogative.

Final post as I have to be up in 6.5 hours and that ain't enough sleep (God only knows how many hundreds of posts will show up tomorrow when I am far away from this MAGICal realm), but you're right.

My expectations are different than many. They are significantly higher than many (especially here). But guess what?

Wanna know where those expectations came from? Who conditioned me to expect the very best?

One guess?

Simple.

Disney did.

I grew up with WDW, Disney animation, The Wonderful World of Disney on NBC and later the Disney Channel.

They made the standards. They conditioned me to KNOW what is and isn't quality. And becoming an adult, a well-traveled adult, an adult who knows many folks behind the scenes and what plays into many things Disney does right and wrong ... well, that's where my opinions come from.

And, yeah, I don't care how you or anyone may take this, but I do believe my views of what WDW should be are better than fanbois who willingly take anything and gush over it on sites like this.

I want to put them in a time machine and take them back and let them live the amazing Disney adventures that I have and then see if they still think this pathetic excuse for a rehab or Disney's lying about killing LoW for tech reasons or doing absolutely nothing in 2010 sits the same way.

I know it's impossible, but I sure would like to. ... Or at least send them on trips to Anaheim, Hong Kong, Paris and Tokyo so they could see that even in 2009, all Disney resorts are not created or -- mor accurately -- run equally.

And with that I bid you a very happy Sunday.

I look forward to the 743 posts ripping me, while taking cheap shots and lying about my opinions that will likely be here when I return early next week. Ho Ho Ho:xmas::xmas::xmas:

:snore::snore::snore:

:snore::snore:

:snore:
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
Sorry, the queue isn't the ride. I first experienced this BS line when Kali River Rapids opened and had an amazingly beautiful queue and a godawful Six Flags-like raft ride.

When fans get excited over queues and not what follows, there's something wrong.

I absolutely agree, because it is only the fans who can get excited over queues. After my first visit to WDW in 2004 Kali River Rapids was my biggest dissappointment. I was expecting a fun ride, but instead I got burning logs. I did not notice the queue then. It's rides like EE which have both elements which turn a first time visitor into a repeat visitor!
 

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