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Space Mountain Heading to the Scrap Heap :)
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I question the accuracy of that dollar figure from RCID.
Yeah, yeah, Disney and RCID appear to be one and the same. But technically, RCID is a government entity, similar to a city government.
The $12.3 million figure must have been included in a public record of some sort for the Sentinel to obtain it.
Without knowing much about construction and government, I assume that $12.3 involves only the cost of the project that would involve the government in some form.
For example, if I build a house, the cost of the building is reflected in government records (ie a $150,000 home). But once I move in and start furnishing the house with 60" plasma TVs, imported stained glass windows, high end furniture, and champaign fountains in every room, the government records don't reflect the true value of my investment.
Perhaps the $12.3 M only reflects the cost of "structure" items like new track or rebuilt walls, and doesn't include items like paint, lighting, visual effects, etc.
Can anyone in construction comment on my guess?
Yeah, yeah, Disney and RCID appear to be one and the same. But technically, RCID is a government entity, similar to a city government.
The $12.3 million figure must have been included in a public record of some sort for the Sentinel to obtain it.
Without knowing much about construction and government, I assume that $12.3 involves only the cost of the project that would involve the government in some form.
For example, if I build a house, the cost of the building is reflected in government records (ie a $150,000 home). But once I move in and start furnishing the house with 60" plasma TVs, imported stained glass windows, high end furniture, and champaign fountains in every room, the government records don't reflect the true value of my investment.
Perhaps the $12.3 M only reflects the cost of "structure" items like new track or rebuilt walls, and doesn't include items like paint, lighting, visual effects, etc.
Can anyone in construction comment on my guess?
stitch2008
Member
I think you are right. The government really only wants to know about something you are building. I dont things like special effects, projectors and screens concern the government much. So they dont include it in public reports.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
This is what I'm thinking. Much the same way also that I get a personal property tax assessment every year, and the values for my house and vehicles is WAY under what I would really get out there in the market.
The proper comparison would be to find the number the government docs had for HM. It's gotta be out there. If they had to file something on SM, they had to file the same thing for HM.
And while were at it, could someone explain why Disney even files some permits/notices with Orange County?
I thought the main purpose of creating RCID was to streamline the permitting red tape. Instead of dealing with the state and the county, Disney has the power to, in essence, deal with itself (being RCID)?
They certainly didn't permit "Everest Mountain structure" with the county. It seems like only smaller projects like electrical wiring or "Interactive Queue package" go through the county.
Maybe it's just cheaper or easier for Disney to do small projects through traditional approval channels, and save RCID only for the big things?
Anyone know?
I thought the main purpose of creating RCID was to streamline the permitting red tape. Instead of dealing with the state and the county, Disney has the power to, in essence, deal with itself (being RCID)?
They certainly didn't permit "Everest Mountain structure" with the county. It seems like only smaller projects like electrical wiring or "Interactive Queue package" go through the county.
Maybe it's just cheaper or easier for Disney to do small projects through traditional approval channels, and save RCID only for the big things?
Anyone know?
Jasonflz
Well-Known Member
True dat.
The structure work should cost more than half the budget while the other things are on a tighter leash. I am pretty mad that Disney decided to cut the budget on what is Magic Kingdom's star attraction and are putting in what is essentially a little more than half the budget of Haunted Mansion. This is really disappointing but, to keep up optimism, hopefully Disney is saving the money for something all of us are going to appreciate in the future.
The main thing that they avoid is having to use products and procedures approved by the Florida Building Department. The deal that Disney has is their Engineer's can approve products and procedures meet or exceed Florida building code without going through the long and expensive code approval process done by the state. As you can imagine their are no standard codes for building things like a 189' fiberglass and steel castle. This situation is by no means unique do Disney. Up here in Jacksonville the Jacksonville Electrical Authority has a similar arrangement. The reason they file permits is because even though they have a good bit of autonomy they still have to comply with state law. Quite honestly, because it is Disney, they have to comply more than anyone. They file permits for things as minor as a new wall switch.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Ah...I thought so. Good, good...:drevil:
DisneyDellsDude
New Member
~20 Million for Haunted Mansion
12.3 Million for Space Mountain
Do we know what Hall of Presidents is getting?
12.3 Million for Space Mountain
Do we know what Hall of Presidents is getting?
jmvd20
Well-Known Member
There are so many different ways to figure the budget of a project that it is really impossible for me to tell what this 12.3 million would be for. For example it could only be the total contract between Disney and the GC - if that is the case then what exactly is the GC responsible for and what is Disney responsible for. It could be the total amount Disney will spend on the entire project, and of course the 12.3 could be entirely incorrect to begin with.
In many projects that I have completed where extensive use of TV's, projectors, stage lighting and sets have been used we (the GC) were only responsible to provide the connections and installation of the items while the customer supplied the items themselves. This amounts to a large sum of money, especially involving something like SM.
Another area is in terms of fees, drawings, and plans. Just designing the refurb and putting it onto paper can eat up a huge chunk of money. Couple that with permits, inspection fees, etc... and the number grows further. Is this included in the 12.3 million or not?
Honestly - even though I run projects every day - these budget numbers mean nothing to me without a lot more details. Heck, we dont even know for sure if the track is being replaced, or if the building is being painted - therefore it is impossible for anyone outside of the project to give an accurate answer of what to expect based upon the 12.3 number.
Without knowing the exact scope of work all anyone can do is guess.
peter11435
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that the 20 million figure for the mansion was never official.
Studios Fan
Active Member
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Auburnjobu
New Member
You are accurate in a certain aspect. All projects submitted for construction permit have to submit a construction cost estimate. Both the review fee and permit fee are based off this amount (the government wants their cut). This is likely an accurate construction contract value however as the jurisdiction typically requires some sort of documentation.
(here is where some folks give a sigh... keep reading...)
Now... the actual TOTAL value of the project and construction is usually significantly greater. These items are filed under smaller individual permits... items like "an interactive queue display" or "audio visual." Many times electrical contracting (lighting) is under a separate specialty contract on projects like this.
The $12.3 M figure was likely pulled by the paper from the base construction permit without any way to tie in all the additional add-on items that will be required. In addition, any pre-fab items that the client would provide would NOT be included in this amount.
This means that as pointed out in a previous post if Disney were to hire out a separate consultant to put in a new low voltage system with televisions for say... $50,000... it would not show up on this construction permit amount.
joel_maxwell
Permanent Resident of EPCOT
I can only imagine the quantity of permits that we dont see. We have a thread for the big ones, and some little, but does Universal have the same issues since they are the another big company in town?
Ah. good. Ill just think to myself that the 12mill is for structural clean up and hope for a briefcase containing ohhhh, say, another 75 mill for the rest.
Im not being over sensitive, but you really should reframe from using this phrase/word. It isnt cool.
Hopefully I can actually get back to doing daily updates on those again. Right not my free time consists of about a 5 minute breather per hour and those updates can eat up some serious time each day.
I do not know for certain but I would assume that US has a similar deal.
joel_maxwell
Permanent Resident of EPCOT
Not to mention "redoing" 3 hours of work due to power outage. man, hate that for you.
I would imagine US has them too, just not the large following of fans to keep up with them.