unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Points taken, however some people seem to feel that they know that because supports aren't being replaced that doom and immediate failure is imminent.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Space Mountain Heading to the Scrap Heap :)
- Thread starter hardcard
- Start date
Points taken, however some people seem to feel that they know that because supports aren't being replaced that doom and immediate failure is imminent.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Both true. Especially Michael's map idea...They still have the chance..?:lookaroun
But as always...TDO: Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda done more.
I would sui them for 600 million dollars keep 600 dollars then pay them the rest for a new refurb
joel_maxwell
Permanent Resident of EPCOT
It might be more of the frustration that ill admit i share with them, if you are going to have to replace one day (either 10 years or 15 years, and heaven forbid and accident structure wise).... do it now while you are in there.
I guess i use the analogy, if you are cracking open my chest to do heart surgery, while you're in there, do everything you need to so i dont have to go through that for the rest of my life (and in SM case... a long long time)
jmvd20
Well-Known Member
As far as the track support discussion goes let me start off by saying that I have never seen the supports close up, I know no one who works at SM, and I have never seen any construction schematics etc... for SM.
However, being in the industry I find it unlikely and almost impossible that any type of refurb would be going on if there was even a hint of track support failure. This isn't just about a lawsuit if someone gets injured. The engineers, architects, contractors etc... can also be held criminally liable if an accident happens that could have been prevented if it is proven that people knew about it yet did nothing.
If there was even a remote analysis of the supports that concluded fatigue had weakened the structure and failure was possible things would not proceed until corrected. It seems like there is a misconception that us folks in the construction industry dont pay attention to stuff like this but in reality we do. If they know there could be a problem with the supports, they would fix it.
I know that some accidents happen, but if the supports were really bad enough for people on an internet forum to "know" about it. Then the architects, engineers, contractors, and project management knows about it as well and would take appropriate action to correct it.
However, being in the industry I find it unlikely and almost impossible that any type of refurb would be going on if there was even a hint of track support failure. This isn't just about a lawsuit if someone gets injured. The engineers, architects, contractors etc... can also be held criminally liable if an accident happens that could have been prevented if it is proven that people knew about it yet did nothing.
If there was even a remote analysis of the supports that concluded fatigue had weakened the structure and failure was possible things would not proceed until corrected. It seems like there is a misconception that us folks in the construction industry dont pay attention to stuff like this but in reality we do. If they know there could be a problem with the supports, they would fix it.
I know that some accidents happen, but if the supports were really bad enough for people on an internet forum to "know" about it. Then the architects, engineers, contractors, and project management knows about it as well and would take appropriate action to correct it.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
I was really going to stay away from this thread ... really ... but I just hate to see the perpetuation of fanboi/internet/CM/urban myths that take on a life of their own.
(Let me also chime in that you can tell how little is truly going on at WDW by looking at the volume and substance of posts on this and other Disney sites of late. ... Only so much you can say about DVC and Stitch's Groovy Dance Party ... and yeah, Space Mountain's half-arsed rehab.)
Anyhow ... DL is every bit a world-wide tourist destination. It has been since the 1950s. That is a fact. And DLR is comprised of TWO parks, not one. Whether you like DCA or not, it does count every bit as much as say that dog known as TPFKaTD-MGMS.
I am not going to get into a semantic game here yet again, but to say DL has a mostly local audience is ludicrous. You can say it attracts more locals than WDW's parks do. That's true. Of course, you should also look into the population of Orange, Los Angeles, San Diego, Riverside, Ventura and San Bernadino counties versus what is termed local in central FLA.
DLR attracts people from all over the world, just like WDW does. Millions of them annually. You are just as likely to see someone from Athens or Austin as you are Artesia or Anaheim Hills ... or someone from Brussels as you are someone from Burbank. Etc ... etc ...
And while comparing WDW to DL may not be 'fair' ... comparing MK to DL and TDL, DLP and HKDL is very fair. And sadly, MK is fourth on that list in so many ways for those who have visited other parks ... indeed, in almost every aspect except amount of attractions I'd likely rank MK dead last behind even the wonderful little park on Lantau.
The Conundrum
New Member
Dude, that's FAR from Promotion.:dazzle::lol:
TSMM and AI got commercials for God's sake.
Not saying it wasn't deserved, but SSE is pretty important.
Orlando Sentinel and some of the other tourist publications were also hyping up the "new SSE" and I believe the official website was doing the same.
There are no "long lines" for SSE on a regular basis its back to where it was pre-refurb. What's ironic is taht most of these "redos" have resulted in LOWER attendance numbers at these attractions (Alien Encounter/Stitch, Horizons/M:S, Energy/Ellen, Old Imagination/new) then they would have had if they just stuck with the originals :ROFLOL:
Thrill Seeker
Well-Known Member
There were some flop refurbs, but there were also some huge successes. The best refurb hands down was The Haunted Mansion. That ride is so much better now than it was before. The new SSE is pretty solid except for the lack of a true decent. I also thought the Pirates refurb was a good improvement say for not un-politically correcting it and not keeping up with maintainence on the effects. Then again, you also have your flops like Imagination, twice. Hopefully they will wise up and realize that a half baked Space Mountain refurb is a really bad idea, especially since Sea World and Universal both have brand spanking new super coasters to lure guests away.
The Conundrum
New Member
Out of what you just said Haunted Mansion is the only TRUE improvement and even with a small budget and a short refurb schedule they do some REAL imagineering work. I even hear tales of some addition things coming to Mansion but perhaps thats a story for another thread...
SSE is all over the place. The first portion of the ride is good, the upgraded animatronics are good, the narration is poor, they didn't restore all the AA's that were there when the ride opened. It should have been better.
projectorguy1
Member
The issue with SM is not rust in my opinion, but metal fatigue - It can manifest itself as tiny cracks around stress risers, or may be under the surface, requiring x-ray or eddy current detection. I would be willing to bet that a detailed fatigue analysis/investigation on this structure, even if it exists and is complete, probably makes certain lifetime assumptions regarding operating stresses and cycles that may or may not be correct or what is actually happening. MANY assumptions are made in these types of analyses, and they have to be verified and validated for the lifetime of the structure. I have been a structural engineer (Aerospace), for about 21 years now, so if I can contribute to the discussion, or answer any particular questions, feel free to ask away. I sent a resume to WDW but never got a response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioQHu1qW7Ls
Here's a close up on the supports! Try not to barf on your computer screen.Keep a grocery bag in your hand at all times just in case :wave:
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Didn't look that bad to me. :shrug:
Pete C
Active Member
Woah, hold on here...you would really put MK behind HKDL? There is so, so little at HKDL. No Splash, Thunder, Pirates, or Haunted Mansion...may I ask what this park does have? It has the best Space Mountain, and literally nothing else in the way of e-tickets, unless Jungle Cruise is still considered an e-ticket. I personally believe those are key Disney experiences. I haven't been there, but it looks like a mere shadow of MK or DL. Would you really give up all of those attractions at MK to have HKDL here instead?
Now, I have been to Tokyo Disneyland, and I would say that it is better, without question, to MK. That park is almost identical to DL, and that's a good thing.
Pete C
Active Member
???
Lee
Adventurer
Weird seeing coaster supports made of angle iron.:lookaroun
Nobody builds coasters like that.
Is the ride ready to collapse....no, I haven't heard anything like that.
But, I do know that the supports, which are very unusual in design and unlike any others I know of, are now 35 years old and have been carrying riders every day of those years (unlike most other coasters, which are seasonal).
If replacing the support structure will make the ride a)smoother, b)safer or c)allow for the addition of improved show elements....then it should be done.
As I said before: Show comes before Efficiency.
But seriously....the difference is huge.
Nobody builds coasters like that.
Is the ride ready to collapse....no, I haven't heard anything like that.
But, I do know that the supports, which are very unusual in design and unlike any others I know of, are now 35 years old and have been carrying riders every day of those years (unlike most other coasters, which are seasonal).
If replacing the support structure will make the ride a)smoother, b)safer or c)allow for the addition of improved show elements....then it should be done.
As I said before: Show comes before Efficiency.
But seriously....the difference is huge.
Attachments
raven
Well-Known Member
I guess I must have been standing in an imaginary 20 minute line outside of SSE last Tuesday...and the week before that...and the week before that...and the week before that.
And the Mission: Space isn't a "redo" of Horizons by any means. It is a completely different attraction.
raven
Well-Known Member
Did you hear the real reason for the delayed opening of the coaster at Universal? My neighbor works for Universal in Marketing and said the engineers put the wrong piece (angle) of track on the lift hill!
It's corrected now but it delayed them another month and cost a few thousand $$ for that mistake. What gets me is that each section of track is numbered. How could they make a simple mistake like that? And why didn't the crane operator or one of the many others working on that piece catch it either? If that's the kind of mistake they make putting it together that I think I'll wait for several months before riding it. Who knows what other mistakes have been made building it. Not saying it's going to be bad (I'm looking forward to riding it) but it's a little scary to hear that news. :brick: By the way, Universal's official statement on the delayed opening explains it's to "test the coaster more" because it's so complex.
Lee
Adventurer
Ummm...no.
That is a simple answer, but that's not the reason for the delay.
The reason was related to technical issues with the lift/evac mechanism.
Now fixed.
DL is a worldwide destination, as is WDW.
DL attracts locals, as does WDW.
However, as a percentage of it's total attendance, WDW has more tourists than locals, and DL has more locals than tourists. Therefore it would be fair to say that as a trend, DL is more of a local area visited park, and WDW is more of a tourist destination. This is a significant difference.
That is the point that you always seem to ignore in such discussions.