Space Mountain Heading to the Scrap Heap :)

[jakeman]

Dear Skyway,...

Sincerely,

Jake Ryan

Tomorrowland Ops/Attractions Cast Member
Walt Disney World Resort
Florida

Just some unasked for advice from someone in the corporate world, while your point may be valid, your employer may not look to kindly to you insinuating that their product is unsafe. Also, you have supplied your first and last name, along with your work location. I'm not sure that is a recipe for job security.

I'm sorry, but everything I've heard about this thing makes it sound like a huge disappointment. If this refurb doesn't improve Space Mountain the way the HM one improved that ride, I'm calling it a HUGE disappointment.

There are 3 opinions of this refurb: those that have decided it is great no matter what, those that have decided it is terrible no matter what, and those that will wait and see.

 

[SirGoofy]

There are 3 opinions of this refurb: those that have decided it is great no matter what, those that have decided it is terrible no matter what, and those that will wait and see.

I'll gladly eat crow if this thing is great.:wave:

 

[jakeman]

I'll gladly eat crow if this thing is great.:wave:

No you won't, because you have already made up your mind.

 

[SirGoofy]

No you won't, because you have already made up your mind.

:lol:

Okay, jake. Whatever you say.

 

[WishIwasThere]

It's attitudes like this that will keep WDW getting half assed attractions for the forseeable future. If we stood up for quality and held them accountable as they effectively do out in California then we wouldn't be having these problems. It makes me so sad and frustrated that so many people defend this cheap cost saving uninspired mediocrity.

Becuase WDW is the cash cow, and attendance keeps going up...not down, like it was at DL in the early 90's. We will be second fiddle to their MK even thought they have lower attendance. They are more of a local destination than WDW. I know I would not travel all the way across the country to visit just DL. Who is going to stop going to WDW because they raised ticket prices, because they haven't opened a new 'great' attraction at MK since 1992, because the menu's at every restaurant is almost the same now, because they are building hundreds of new DVC rooms instead of new attractions, etc. (add your own rant or excuse). So until things start affecting thier bottom line, don't expect drastic changes.

 

[Lee]

OK Lee, not calling you out but you have stated over and over again that you are in the dark as to exactly what is happening and then you give a very detailed discription. So I guess I'm confused by that.:shrug:

I don't think anything I said in my post was detailed.
I am very hazy on the specifics of this refurb, as are most of us who usually get info on this sort of thing.
However, in very general terms, I have been following this refurb since it's early days nearly five years ago.
What I know:
- At one time it was a full blown DL style makeover of the ride.
- At one time, it was a complete re-imagining of the ride.
- More recently, it was cut to a bare-bones, just do what has to be done refurbishment.
- Currently, from what I can squeeze out of the limited info available to me, they are performing a refurbishment that is more than "bare-bones" but far short of a full makeover.

Since I am of the mind that the ride needs and deserves a full makeover to return it to it's position of MK's flagship e-ticket, I am troubled by this reduction of the refurb's scope.
However, my mind is open....I hope for the best...and will reserve full judgement until such time as I am next able to experience the attraction.

:wave:

 

[jakeman]

...because they are building hundreds of new DVC rooms instead of new attractions, etc. (add your own rant or excuse).

I would assume that you would also want them to stop upgrading DCA or building new cruise ships as well, because they are all in the same division at Disney?

It's not an excuse, it is a fact that DVC construction is not siphoning off money from WDW anymore than any other project in the Parks division. Just because that doesn't fit into your world view doesn't make it any less true.

Since I am of the mind that the ride needs and deserves a full makeover to return it to it's position of MK's flagship e-ticket, I am troubled by this reduction of the refurb's scope.
However, my mind is open....I hope for the best...and will reserve full judgement until such time as I am next able to experience the attraction.

:wave:

Well said, Lee.

 

[WishIwasThere]

How is the Matterhorn a different beast?

It's the only Disney coaster older than SM---by 6 years (which is less than the difference between RnRc and Everest)

Both would certainly be better, smoother, and more "modern" rides with brand new track and on-board audio (can you imagine a "Yodeling" soundtrack like the Price is Right mountain climber? Weeeee!)

I think it's fair to say doing such would be massively expensive on both attractions.

I think it's also fair to say neither attraction needs new track to remain safe and operational.

So why is Disney "cheap" because someone proposed --and then killed-- a track replacement for SM, but they are NOT being attacked for leaving the Matterhorn in it's squeaky, loud, teeth-chipping "classic" form. (Bobsled down icy slopes, my a@@! More like a wagon missing a wheel being pushed off a rocky cliff!)

I'm sure WDI had some wonderful plans for SM. Check out the book "The Disney Mountains" and you'll see John Hench had some amazing plans for SM too. But just because it's proposed does not make it financially feasible (Hench wanted FOUR tracks inside!)

Again--- this all goes back to my main point--- a total track replacement is not necessary. So why go to that expense just for onboard audio? (Or, to look at it another way, why OVERPAY for audio? If it costs X million to add it to a new coaster, doesn't it seem wasteful to spend that same X million for it on SM but also add double/triple/quadruple (?) the cost to make it work on WDW's 1971 attraction?

Six years??? Try sixteen, (1975-1959 = 16 years). Yes Walt came up with the idea of a space themed roller coaster back in the 1960's but it didn't open until Jan 15th, 1975. And I don't believe DL's version openend until 1977, so we do have the oldest one out there.

 

[Master Yoda]

Knowing the original plan for this refurb I tend to share Lee's opinion on this. I often say in my business "Do you want it right or right now" I think Disney has chosen the "right now" option which does lower my expectations.

 

[WishIwasThere]

It's like a wrecked car. DL junked the wrecked 1977 car and went out and bought a brand new 2005, top of the line model with all the bells and whistles. MK...are keeping their wrecked 1975 "classic" rolleyes, and taking it to the body shop for some dent work, bondo and paint. Maybe a wash.

I do believe that the cars were replaced in the 1989 refurb. So we have classic cars instead of antique cars.:animwink:

 

[wilsonhanks]

Thanks for the update...

If only they would scrapheap that Stitch Dancing With The "Stars" crap in Tomorrowland....

I am actually hoping they include stitch in space mountain, he fits the space theme perfectly, maybe you pass a stitch that blows fog into the riders for a cool effect!!!

 

[X-Ser]

I'm a little confused now. If they're putting in a new track, and not adding on-board audio, then what are they doing that requires such a long down time? Some track spot replacements and a new coat of paint? Whoop-dee-freakin'-do. At the rate they're slashing the budget, they'll probably end up putting back everything they took out so they don't have to shell out for new parts.

I also don't know why management thinks its ok to have the ride closed during the entire summer, but can't let it be down for a week and a half during Christmas.

 

[Lee]

I am actually hoping they include stitch in space mountain, he fits the space theme perfectly, maybe you pass a stitch that blows fog into the riders for a cool effect!!!

Seek help immediately.:hammer:

 

[marni1971]

The same thing will happen to WDW if less people come to the parks

Thing is, less people will never go to WDW. Not enough to worry them.

WHY IN THE WORLD IS IT SUCH A BAD THING IF DISNEY DOES NOT REPLACE THE ENTIRE TRACK AND SUPPORT STRUCTURE?!?!?!?!?!

You are kidding? Because this means we are stuck with 11 year old cars, a structure that will not last forever, no audio (a fantastic part of the story for DL, HKDL and especially Paris) and the biggest issue - they spent plenty of time and money planning to do it, then changed their minds for profit, not show.

a total track replacement is not necessary

Oh but it is. Believe me.

BTW... I mentioned audio tests. It wasn`t done using SoundTracker, more a mockup of SoundTracker in a temporarily modified car, just to see if onboard audio would work and would be worth it. By all accounts, Glendale thought it certainly was. TDO thought otherwise.

Now, indstead of having a narration of music like one has in The Haunted Mansion, we`ll have even less of a soundscape than Test Track has. Most definately a step backwards for a project designed to being a 34 year old ride into the present (or indeed the future)

 

[jt04]

The WDWR will close for a couple days this week so new stuff can be moved into SM. Since I would think they are using the doors on SM that are outside the berm this seems odd to me. Could it be they don't want people on the train seeing (and taking pics) of exactly what is being moved in? :shrug:

 

[marni1971]

then what are they doing that requires such a long down time?

Ride control systems (SM is still mostly run by the worlds first coaster computer), structural work, building structure work, and the track replacement isn`t that easy; the guts of SM are hard to get to - you can`t just crane in and crane out. Let alone find somewhere to park the crane to begin with.

 

[GrumpyFan]

I'm hoping that Imagineering has a few high-tech surprises in store for SM that they're keeping under tight wraps. And, if I had to bet on it, I would put some money down. Here's why I'm betting on it. Both Universal and Orlando are debuting brand new roller coasters this summer. Universal's coaster is very high tech, with music and lights and lots more. With their two closest competitors unveiling what is the equivalent of a Disney "E" ticket, I can't imaging them JUST doing a refurb to one of their biggest and best know attractions with no major improvement whatsoever.

I mean, can you imagine trying the guys in marketing trying to figure out a new spin for a 34 year old rollercoaster that's essentially the same as it's always been, and go up against the new rides from Uni and SeaWorld? IF they do re-open the ride without anything new added to it, then it just goes to show how arrogant they are in their product and the Disney brand. Either that, or it just goes to show how dumb some of the management is that's running the show right now. I would vote for the latter, because, I think the imagineers probably have several dozen ideas for improving the ride, but can't do anything with them because of the price tag associated, and upper management's reluctance to foot the bill.

 

[jt04]

Becuase WDW is the cash cow, and attendance keeps going up...not down, like it was at DL in the early 90's. We will be second fiddle to their MK even thought they have lower attendance. They are more of a local destination than WDW. I know I would not travel all the way across the country to visit just DL. Who is going to stop going to WDW because they raised ticket prices, because they haven't opened a new 'great' attraction at MK since 1992, because the menu's at every restaurant is almost the same now, because they are building hundreds of new DVC rooms instead of new attractions, etc. (add your own rant or excuse). So until things start affecting thier bottom line, don't expect drastic changes.

There are sometimes several years between visits for me. I only return when they add compelling new attractions. They need to stop with the DVCs and new theme parks for awhile and concentrate on new attractions and fixing the problems they have inside the parks that have been documented here. IMO.

 

[Lee]

I mean, can you imagine trying the guys in marketing trying to figure out a new spin for a 34 year old rollercoaster that's essentially the same as it's always been...

They did in Tokyo, and it wasn't that old.:shrug:
Closed for 7 months and got new trains, new load station, and a few new in-ride effects.
Changed the logo, and sold it as a "new and improved" Space Mountain. Which I guess it kinda was improved...but not new.

 

[EpcotServo]

They did in Tokyo, and it wasn't that old.:shrug:
Closed for 7 months and got new trains, new load station, and a few new in-ride effects.
Changed the logo, and sold it as a "new and improved" Space Mountain. Which I guess it kinda was improved...but not new.

The thing is though, their ride was already in MUCH better shape than Disneyland's and ours.

They have this weird thing called "Preventative Maintenance" there.