Matpez
Well-Known Member
I'm still amazed that apparently I was the only one who went to a Six Flags in the 90s and went on the "big movie screen/seats move" attraction.
Soarin' is a movie, with some moving seats...
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Soarin' is a movie, with some moving seats...
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
I think the score is worthy of that description alone. :shrug:
I dunno, hanging 60 feet in the air in front of a huuuuuge Omnimax is boring, huh?:lookaroun:lol:
I do agree though, on the quality of the refurb. HM looks brand new. Why can't SM?
SirGoofy
Member
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
I don't get that.:lol:
The Conundrum
New Member
Soarin' is honestly the only good major attraction built in the past ten years at both Anahiem and WDW. It's not "the greatest thing ever" and I wish the film didn't jump around to random places like a sampler. A linear adventure would have been better (like Star Tours) but the score and the ride system make up for it.
I would also say Everest is good but the actual ride doesn't have a whole lot going on. They cut way too many corners with it. I mean you have an excellent AAA queue and a fantastic first portion but once you arrive at the broken lift hill the attraction is all downhill (literally). You can't just have empty black tunnels and a small projection of a yeti concluding with a broken yeti AA. I can easily forgive that the ride is on the short sight if there was more to look at while onboard. Look at Big Thunder and Matterhorn. There is themeing all over the ride there is never a portion of the rdie that the imagineers just left empty and dark.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
hpyhnt 1000
Well-Known Member
And, to get nit-picky, I'm pretty sure its actually 40 feet. :wave: :lol:
And I agree that Soarin' is impressive AND fun (but not fun/impressive enough to warrant a 110 min. wait though).
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Typo!:hammer::lol:
joel_maxwell
Permanent Resident of EPCOT
Mat, what SF do you go to? (or should i say did in the 90's)
Now ill agree to that. Im not sure id wait for anything for that long.
WHY IN THE WORLD IS IT SUCH A BAD THING IF DISNEY DOES NOT REPLACE THE ENTIRE TRACK AND SUPPORT STRUCTURE?!?!?!?!?!
Geez, some of you are already calling this refurb a failure because it's (reportedly) not getting fully gutted and rebuilt from scratch.
Is there ANY shred of credible evidence that SM is in danger of collapsing, and that by only replacing track sections instead of the entire structure, there will be certain death and destruction that Disney engineers could have avoided if they simply read these boards?!?!?!?!
The fact is, there are steel coasters all over the world built in the early 70s that have never gotten full rebuilds (and wood coasters decades older still running on original struts and supports). So why is there this "Internet assumption" that SM needs a full replacement (and accusations that Disney is being "cheap" by not doing it)?
Yes, the Disneyland version DID have structural integrity issues that required a full rebuild. But --- correct me if I'm wrong--- much of that problem with the track was caused by the stress of adding an on-board sound system (which increased train weight and balance).
My guess is that many are slamming Disney for not completely rebuilding WDW's track because no new track means no new on-board audio.
But give them a break! If you wanted to add some heavy speakers to your home theater, but a contractor told you the existing walls would not be sturdy enough to hold them, would you pay $50,000 to completely gut and rebuild your living room, just so you could add some cool new speakers??? No you wouldn't!
So why should Disney---who I'm assuming knows much than us about the strength and integrity of SM's original structure--- spend an enormous fortune tearing out, buying brand new, and rebuilding from scratch NOT JUST ONE but TWO coasters....just so you can hear a little music on the ride????????
Don't get me wrong---I'd love on-board audio. But history has shown that it must be done right. But to do it right means unnecessarily rebuilding the track at the cost of tens of millions extra (not to mention the millions more lost when SM is kept closed months longer as some postpone their vacations)
I can see why Disney said "Its not worth it".
Geez, some of you are already calling this refurb a failure because it's (reportedly) not getting fully gutted and rebuilt from scratch.
Is there ANY shred of credible evidence that SM is in danger of collapsing, and that by only replacing track sections instead of the entire structure, there will be certain death and destruction that Disney engineers could have avoided if they simply read these boards?!?!?!?!
The fact is, there are steel coasters all over the world built in the early 70s that have never gotten full rebuilds (and wood coasters decades older still running on original struts and supports). So why is there this "Internet assumption" that SM needs a full replacement (and accusations that Disney is being "cheap" by not doing it)?
Yes, the Disneyland version DID have structural integrity issues that required a full rebuild. But --- correct me if I'm wrong--- much of that problem with the track was caused by the stress of adding an on-board sound system (which increased train weight and balance).
My guess is that many are slamming Disney for not completely rebuilding WDW's track because no new track means no new on-board audio.
But give them a break! If you wanted to add some heavy speakers to your home theater, but a contractor told you the existing walls would not be sturdy enough to hold them, would you pay $50,000 to completely gut and rebuild your living room, just so you could add some cool new speakers??? No you wouldn't!
So why should Disney---who I'm assuming knows much than us about the strength and integrity of SM's original structure--- spend an enormous fortune tearing out, buying brand new, and rebuilding from scratch NOT JUST ONE but TWO coasters....just so you can hear a little music on the ride????????
Don't get me wrong---I'd love on-board audio. But history has shown that it must be done right. But to do it right means unnecessarily rebuilding the track at the cost of tens of millions extra (not to mention the millions more lost when SM is kept closed months longer as some postpone their vacations)
I can see why Disney said "Its not worth it".
SirGoofy
Member
Because it adds to a guest's experience. Because it shows Disney is committed to quality like they were in the past. Because it would separate Space Mountain from your run of the mill wild mouse in the dark. Because it would continue Disney's long tradition of plussing attractions.
Need any more reasons?
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
For clarification, the $1.2 billion to be invested in DCA will also aid in fixing some of the cohesion problems in that park. As much as I'm looking forward to the slate of new attractions that are coming to that park, I'm also looking forward to the completely redesigned entrance. The park has some excellent attractions (Aladdin Musical, Soarin') as well as some very good attractions (California Screamin', Tower of Terror Light, and Grizzly River Run). The slate of other solid attractions includes It's Tough to be a Bug, Turtle Talk with Crush, Muppetvision 3D, and the Monster's Inc Dark Ride. With the recently added Toy Story Mania, a legitimate argument can be made that this park is as good, if not better than Hollywood Studios, at least in it's attraction lineup. By 2012, we're expecting another excellent attraction in the Radiator Springs Racers, the Little Mermaid dark ride which should be a notch below in terms of quality, as well as the Wonderful World of Color and several other smaller additions.
Even if Hollywood Studios gets Star Tours 2.0, the Monster's Inc Coaster, a refurbished Great Movie Ride, and improvements to Fantasmic, it still may not measure up to the additions being made to DCA.
Even if Hollywood Studios gets Star Tours 2.0, the Monster's Inc Coaster, a refurbished Great Movie Ride, and improvements to Fantasmic, it still may not measure up to the additions being made to DCA.
miles1
Active Member
JMHO. While I'm all for having my experience added to, I'm also willing to look at it on a cost/benefit basis, at least in this case. If adding the audio will force them to essentially rebuild the ride from scratch at a cost of tens of millions (at least) and 18 months or more of time, I'd rather see them use the resources elsewhere. (i.e., plussing another attraction like the TTA, or adding a new E ticket like the rumored Mermaid ride.)
Not having the audio will certainly not keep most people (including everyone here) from visiting WDW and riding SM, over and over again. However being able to trumpet a newly-refurbed SM plus another new attraction (built with the money saved on SM) would probably attract more people to WDW sooner.
Maybe that's how TDO is looking at this?
No offense, but you could have just as easily rebutted me with the phrase "Just cuz!" and had the same logical impact.
Disney would show its committed to quality if they created a huge raging storm during the ship battle scene in POTC, complete with a brand new bigger ship, a giant wave pool, and sprinklers overhead --- but you'd be a moron to realistically suggest that Disney is being cheap because they didn't do that on their last big rehab. I guess they dropped the ball on that whole "long tradition of plussing attractions" thing.
Disney would show it's commitment to the guest experience by allowing MORE people to stay overnight in the castle. Buy I don't hear anyone demanding that they completely tear down and rebuild the castle just so they can add a few more guestrooms.
And I thought Walt's idea of putting a coaster in the dark already separated it from a typical wild mouse coaster--a separation his Imagineers expanded upon by putting two intertwining coasters in the same steel and concrete conical structure.
And how could Disney be cheap if, in fact, they did EXACTLY what many are wishing for in the DL rehab 4 years ago---a rehab that was structurally REQUIRED.
If you REALLY think that money is no object to Disney, why stop at a total rebuild simply for some audio? What about loops, inversions, or corkscrews? It could be just like RnRC! And heck, why stop at SM? They should replace ALL the track on ALL the rides --whether they need to or not--- because that shows commitment to the guest experience (and not a bit of wasteful spending!)
SirGoofy
Member
Half of this post would be the ramblings of an unrealistic fanboy.
But onboard audio is a very realistic, and very cool addition to a ride, that should be a part of any modern roller coaster.
On top of that, it was originally planned for this rehab. Hell, as Martin said, it was even tested. But thanks to budget cuts, it was axed. So obviously WDI thought it was a very good idea.
But of course, DOMs will say, "We should be happy it's getting cleaned!"
TarzanRocked99-
Well-Known Member
It's attitudes like this that will keep WDW getting half assed attractions for the forseeable future. If we stood up for quality and held them accountable as they effectively do out in California then we wouldn't be having these problems. It makes me so sad and frustrated that so many people defend this cheap cost saving uninspired mediocrity.
SirGoofy
Member
No, they aren't looking at it like that at all. There were plans for a complete rebuild in place, and apparently were axed because management had a heart attack when it had Space being closed for the Holidays. So they slashed the plans left and right to what we've got now.
And they can't stop Mermaid from what I've heard, so Space had no effect on it what so ever.
SirGoofy
Member
Half of this post would be the ramblings of an unrealistic fanboy.
But onboard audio is a very realistic, and very cool addition to a ride, that should be a part of any modern roller coaster.
On top of that, it was originally planned for this rehab. Hell, as Martin said, it was even tested. But thanks to budget cuts, it was axed. So obviously WDI thought it was a very good idea.
But of course, DOMs will say, "We should be happy it's getting cleaned!"
I agree with you, audio should (potentially) be a part of a MODERN roller coaster. (Everest is fine without it)
But SM is not modern. It is vintage 1970's---just as Walt's Matterhorn is vintage 1950's.
So Disney is faced with the question--- should we completely tear down a "classic" like SM (or the Matterhorn) to make it modern?
At DL they had no choice. They were forced to gut the "classic". But they made lemonade out of those lemons.
Why on earth would they gut WDWs if it wasn't necessary.
Plus I'm hoping Martin will chime in on this. He said they TESTED Soundtracker---but I don't believe he said how those tests went, or that money was the sole reason it was cut (short of "money" being the cost to completely build two brand new coasters for no other reason than to hold a few hundred extra pounds of batteries, speakers, and computers)
SirGoofy
Member
If they want to give the illusion they are still dedicated to delivering the highest quality, best attractions in the world like they say they are, yes.
And the Matterhorn is a completely different beast, so I would compare this the that at all.
I don't know how the tests whent either, but I'm willing to bet my very small paychecks that this was a monetary decision. It's the way TDO works.