RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
How about a chairlift added to dtd to avoid the problems with PI being an obstacle to those traveling between the marketplace and the westside.
Or a monorail or a peoplemover?
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So is the Hyperion Wharf project dead?
- Thread starter djkidkaz
- Start date
Or a monorail or a peoplemover?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The Walt Disney Company had the Orange County Sheriff remove the reports from the official records, just like they had the Orlando Sentinel remove all of the drunk driving articles from their archives. :brick:
Kamikaze
Well-Known Member
That Mickey is very Orwellian it seems.
flavious27
Well-Known Member
Agreed, they could have done alot to solve the problem beside just closing down the clubs on PI.
Could also, though cost and space would need to be factored in.
Just dig out the 1976 plans and build them
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
It's amazing how this problem could have been completely avoided if Disney had only instead built the West Side development on the parking lot south of Pleasure Island. Then guests could get from any of the three districts to another without passing through another district. If that were the case, we would likely still have the Adventurers Club and the PI ticketing system right now.
Mouse Detective
Well-Known Member
These PI threads would be horribly boring without Jt to kick around. Leave him be!
Victor Kelly
Well-Known Member
and how does one put another poster on ignore?
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Go to your USER CP
On the left you will see Edit Ignore List
Type their name in the box that says Add a Member to Your List...
Click OKAY
Victor Kelly
Well-Known Member
thank you.
I would like to see select clubs return. I have never been to the Adventurer's club, and would have loved to have gone. It is a shame to see that area with nothing to do. I mean they did build a walkway around and under PI to go from the West side to DTD, then closed it off when they opened PI completely.
But I remember a time when PI was not there, neither was West End and they were both woods and swamp. So I date myself really badly don't I?
I would like to see select clubs return. I have never been to the Adventurer's club, and would have loved to have gone. It is a shame to see that area with nothing to do. I mean they did build a walkway around and under PI to go from the West side to DTD, then closed it off when they opened PI completely.
But I remember a time when PI was not there, neither was West End and they were both woods and swamp. So I date myself really badly don't I?
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
I remember that as well. The excuse that they closed it to make access between the two areas easier is just that...an excuse.
tirian
Well-Known Member
Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but PI closed because it wasn't profitable. I know Lee, Martin, and Steve have said it too. I know some people passionately insist PI was "always" busy when they visited—usually on a Thursday night—and there's no way it wasn't profitable.
PI was dying for years before Disney removed the turnstiles. After they did that to encourage business, PI died even more, because who wants to party when surrounded by kids and families?
There's no conspiracy. No evil master plan. Disney wasn't willing to follow wilder trends in nightlife and PI was tame by today's standards. PI wasn't profitable and Disney closed it. That's all.
To get back on topic with Hyperion Wharf, I wouldn't believe any announcement until the stores and rec centers actually opened for business. Some of what has been announced and leaked is already being renegotiated. People's spending patterns have changed with the recession, and Disney really isn't sure what to put into their bold, new vision...
...Except for seed and mulch.
PI was dying for years before Disney removed the turnstiles. After they did that to encourage business, PI died even more, because who wants to party when surrounded by kids and families?
There's no conspiracy. No evil master plan. Disney wasn't willing to follow wilder trends in nightlife and PI was tame by today's standards. PI wasn't profitable and Disney closed it. That's all.
To get back on topic with Hyperion Wharf, I wouldn't believe any announcement until the stores and rec centers actually opened for business. Some of what has been announced and leaked is already being renegotiated. People's spending patterns have changed with the recession, and Disney really isn't sure what to put into their bold, new vision...
...Except for seed and mulch.
montyz81
Well-Known Member
71jason
Well-Known Member
Can you point to specific posts (particularly from Lee)? Even VP Kevin Lansberry admitted PI was profitable in the month or so before it shut down. As does everyone I've known who worked there.
Again, the economy can't be blamed for the failure of DtD (or Flamingo Crossing)...not when the economy in the other touristy section of Orlando is going gangbusters. I-Drive had no trouble attracting Dave & Busters, Tilted Kilt, Joe's Crab Shack, Brick House Grill, Ice Bar... West 192 has exploded with new restaurants in the last year and a half. People are looking to open new businesses...just not on Disney property.
tirian
Well-Known Member
There was a spike right before PI closed, but Disney hadn't considered Pleasure Island profitable since 2004 and had been looking to close it long before the official announcement. I don't recall Kevin's saying that, though I'm sure he did if you're saying so.
I'm sorry, I don't have time to search.
I'm not trying to be rude; I really don't. There have been so many threads about PI that we'd have to wade through thousands of posts.Long story short, rumors began circulating in 2004 that Disney wanted out of the club business. In 2005, they had several meetings about shutting down PI and word started leaking out to the island's CMs. The only reason given was that the island wasn't profitable. When they later announced it internally, Disney said it wasn't "meeting expectations"—business code for not making enough money. Then they said they'd shut down everything except the AC, which was later added to the chopping block too.
The idea that the island was secretly profitable but Disney just wanted to add more shops is an Internet myth based on the pithy excuses PR announced to the public. It's a long, sad story, but Disney didn't suddenly decide to close a money-making part of DTD simply because they didn't want the company's name a liquor license. Disney doesn't close restaurants or shops unless they aren't making money, and this was one of those times.
Those places don't charge as much as Disney. :wave:
I vehemently disagree. Disney did not remove the PI turnstiles to "encourage business". Disney removed the turnstiles because PI had become the convenient excuse as to why the Westside had become a spectacular failure. The truth was, there was nothing of interest on the Westside; no reason for people to want to walk all the way over there from the Eastside; and most importantly, no reason for businesses to want to lease over there. Rather than say "hey, we F'd up, we designed a terrible venue" they blamed it on PI blocking foot traffic. Six years later, PI is a ghost town and nobody still ever goes over to the Westside - maybe it wasn't the turnstiles' fault.
Again, I disagree. This is Disney-corporate-speak for "We could be making so much more cash with this land if we just leased and collected rent, rather than having to run the places ourselves" (AKA they were lazy and uber-willing to take the non-creative way out). And that's what they did. And, of course, they were wrong. The land has sat there vacant and non-productive for years now.
The dual notions of "it was profitable" and "it was not meeting expectations" are not incompatible. They wanted "more than profitable", acted on it, and wound up losing money on a ghost town for several years. It's not a conspiracy to simply state management was inept. It was (and is).
jt04
Well-Known Member
There was a spike right before PI closed, but Disney hadn't considered Pleasure Island profitable since 2004 and had been looking to close it long before the official announcement. I don't recall Kevin's saying that, though I'm sure he did if you're saying so.
I'm sorry, I don't have time to search.
Long story short, rumors began circulating in 2004 that Disney wanted out of the club business. In 2005, they had several meetings about shutting down PI and word started leaking out to the island's CMs. The only reason given was that the island wasn't profitable. When they later announced it internally, Disney said it wasn't "meeting expectations"—business code for not making enough money. Then they said they'd shut down everything except the AC, which was later added to the chopping block too.
The idea that the island was secretly profitable but Disney just wanted to add more shops is an Internet myth based on the pithy excuses PR announced to the public. It's a long, sad story, but Disney didn't suddenly decide to close a money-making part of DTD simply because they didn't want the company's name a liquor license. Disney doesn't close restaurants or shops unless they aren't making money, and this was one of those times.
Those places don't charge as much as Disney. :wave:
I would just add that if Disney wants out of the club business because it does the 'brand' no favors than the whole question of profit or crowd flow or third parties or seed and/or mulch is really meaningless.
PS- I just wish you had posted this three years ago and I wouldn't have gone through so many keyboards.
tirian
Well-Known Member
Actually, we agree much more than you might think. :wave: Responses in red.
BTW, I regret posting anything in this thread simply because I'm tired of talking about PI. :lol:
EDIT: Definitely not trying to pick a fight with you, Krack. I respect your opinions and LOVE your avatar, which is more correct than you know.