Slash and Burn ...

[WDW1974]

Interesting quote from Jim Hill's 1/5 article:

But believe it or not, the executives who run the Walt Disney World Resort don't operate in a vacuum. These folks are always aware of what Universal & SeaWorld are up to. They pay incredibly close attention to their Central Florida competition. Which is why these suits are concerned that the boys back in Burbank -- by putting the brakes on construction of anything of size for the WDW theme parks for at least the next six months -- may unintentionally be hobbling Disney World into 2010 and 2011. And that -- by coasting through the first half of 2009 -- the Resort may then be forced to pay catch-up with its competition for the next five years or so.[end quote]

Interesting, I say, because we usually hear about WDW's management being the problem, or at least being Rasulo puppets who really don't care about the future of the resort. Hill's statement, however, seems to suggest that WDW management is unwittingly hand tied.

The problem is two-fold.

It is Jay Rasulo and Burbank ultimately holding back funds, but it's also WDW's exec 'leadership' team that is afraid to spend on anything that isn't DVC.

Everything I've heard suggests it is indeed WDW locally that has been and continues to be the issue in getting Space Mountain the type of redo it requires, not Burbank.

I've also heard it is TDO that is holding back the start of Star Tours 2.0 and, largely, the start of the Monsters coaster.

Although reading Hill today I couldn't help but feel I was a bit of the inspiration behind that column (yeah, delusions of grandeur to my fan club!)

 

[WDW1974]

Interesting quote from Jim Hill's 1/5 article:

I think a quote from that article that is just as interesting is: "And given that Parks & Resorts' own surveys show that Disney World could go a full six years without adding a new ride or show to WDW's current assortment of attractions before there'd then be any really noticable drop in attendance and/or occupancy levels ... Well, why spend money now on Disney World when the company really doesn't have to?"

Some on this board question why myself or others in similar situations "waste our time" on a discussion board like this. This is one reason. If visitors and fans alike respond to surveys in that matter than clearly there needs to be some attempt to wake these people up. For me the motivation lies in the fact that the more projects Disney approves the more potential work there is for my company. They also stimulate the industry so that other park owners and companies will decide to initiate new projects. Aside from that, new high quality attractions are fun.

Fun?

Where does fun enter into this?

WDW is a business and should be run only in the best short-term interests of its shareholders and management.

Fun?!??! You must think you're on a Disney fan site? Obviously, you took a wrong turn in Tulsa!

Now ... seriously ... it's funny how Disney turns its very skewed surveys into excuses to provide less quality for its guests' dollars. You can bet those surveys are worded in such a way to reach the conclusions that management has already decided on.

Of course, there have been exceptions ... like those 2007 surveys on the boutique animal park that were almost 9-to-1 against ... and most of those survey takers got considerable goodies (including a few hundred Disney Dollars in some cases) for taking part.

Anyway, I like your motivation ... mine is simply because I know what TWDC is capable of and what they've done in the past (and continue to do in basically any place that isn't The Timeshare Kingdome of the World) and the thought of letting them trash the Disney Legacy while resting on the laurels of greats who came before them really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt04
OK, I went back to the original post and this is what I have found. So I'd consider the source and move along. Truly nothing to see here. :brick:

When he posted this a month ago, things were indeed looking dim for the refurb's scope.

Darn! I promised myself I'd stay out of this thread.

*runs out room*

JT has seemingly no purpose here other than to try and discredit me. He/she sure is doing a great job.

He quotes the OP when I said I didn't know all the details and would be checking. I had since posted an entire thread about HoP's great extensive redo and mentioned Space Mountain's was on (although I didn't and still don't know all of the details because frankly neither does Disney) ... and Star Tours 2.0 WILL happen but IS on hold.

So again, this is someone with some personal issues with my agenda and, frankly, should have left this thread long ago since he has no use for me and my opinions ...

And don't leave the thread, we need all the rational, intelligent voices we can get!

 

[agent86]

No you keep stating that you are basically right and Servo is wrong. Look if he feels there is a story there in his mind then so what? He likes it for whatever reason he wants. You don't basically got to keep calling the guy out and trying to rake him over the coals in your posts. He clearly stated why he believes the ride is fantastic in his mind.Do I agree with him? I don't know as I haven't ridden it.Nor do I disagree with you when you say the ride isn't great.

Well if it has seemed as though I've been explicitly "calling out" any particular single member on this thread, that's not the case. It could be that because a few members keep replying to my posts, it has the appearance that I'm arguing with them specifically, but I'm not. It has always seemed kind of silly to me to have to point out to people that they are entitled to their opinion, because that, to me, should be self-evident. Nevertheless, I'm happy to reassure you that I don't see my opinion as being any more valid than that of someone on here who loves Everest and thinks it's the greatest Disney attraction ever built. If it seems, however, that I keep pressing the issue on anything, it's because this seems to be the cycle of the conversation:

- A member here loves a ride that I think is just so-so
- I ask the member to tell me what they think is so great about the ride (because I'm genuinely curious)
- The member proceeds to describe aspects of the ride that do not exist, or over-embellishes what the ride does have
- I ask the member to explain what he means by those things he has mentioned
- Member basically dances around the issue and writes "War and Peace" length posts without really saying anything of substance
- Member also proceeds to describe things that, while they may be cool to him (and that's great), they aren't really things that come through as a result of the ride experience itself
- I get confused and ask more questions

And the cycle repeats itself.

 

[tirian]

And don't leave the thread, we need all the rational, intelligent voices we can get!

My "rational, intelligent" voice is ignored, and I'm tired of getting hoarse.



*grabs popcorn and settles down, since I'm obviously not leaving this thread.*

 

[WDW1974]

Yeah ... well, I have work most of this week, so I may not be able to add to the fun in these parts.

But I think the agent86/Servo battle on the relative merits of EE might go on for weeks!

 

[CaptainMichael]

My "rational, intelligent" voice is ignored, and I'm tired of getting hoarse.

I've always listened:wave:

 

[jt04]

My "rational, intelligent" voice is ignored, and I'm tired of getting hoarse.



*grabs popcorn and settles down, since I'm obviously not leaving this thread.*

I've always listened:wave:

Me too.

Especially when you post in other threads :animwink:

 

[jt04]

Quote:
So again, this is someone with some personal issues with my agenda and, frankly, should have left this thread long ago since he has no use for me and my opinions ...

I have no use for your name dropping and self promotion not to mention how you attacked people and their posting style without first getting even a tiny bit of knowledge about them. You also attacked the web site itself early on but have wisely backed off that.

And you have at least stop hammering the same point over and over so that is progress. I'll take information anywhere I can get it but reading the same point gets tiresome after it's made several dozen times.

But it's nice you a learning to play well with others. I just miss some of the people you ran off and who haven't been back because most of them were more interesting than you. IMO of course :lookaroun

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Nope, its no use I still think your real name is Richard Cranium. :shrug:

 

[ClemsonTigger]

True, but the fanboys who would see this and realize "hey, this guy's got a good point" and would then tell their friends, and so on.... QUOTE]

You are absolutely right that it is merely my opinion, as is the vast majority of what I post. The last time I checked, a "discussion" board is generally for the purpose of people expressing their opinions. For me to identify every one of my posts as "This is just my opinion..." seems absurd. That should be a given.

Having said that, if other members are so put off by my expressing an opinion that differs for their own, then I would be inclined to ask them how truly confident they actually are in their opinions. My experience has generally been that when people get so upset at the expression of an opinion that differs from their own opinion or belief, it usually means that opinion or belief is on shaky ground to begin with.

Well if it has seemed as though I've been explicitly "calling out" any particular single member on this thread, that's not the case.... Nevertheless, I'm happy to reassure you that I don't see my opinion as being any more valid than that of someone on here who loves Everest and thinks it's the greatest Disney attraction ever built. If it seems, however, that I keep pressing the issue on anything, it's because this seems to be the cycle of the conversation:

- A member here loves a ride that I think is just so-so
- I ask the member to tell me what they think is so great about the ride (because I'm genuinely curious)
- The member proceeds to describe aspects of the ride that do not exist, or over-embellishes what the ride does have
- I ask the member to explain what he means by those things he has mentioned
- Member basically dances around the issue and writes "War and Peace" length posts without really saying anything of substance
- Member also proceeds to describe things that, while they may be cool to him (and that's great), they aren't really things that come through as a result of the ride experience itself
- I get confused and ask more questions

And the cycle repeats itself.

Ahh, good points that sum up this trainwreck...

Always like when someone takes the position of using "fanboy" as a derogatory term. A....hello....this is a Disney "fanboy" site...what do you expect?

Then there are discussion boards and opinions....
While you are defining them, consider this....
1) "Screaming" the same thing over and over, louder and louder while demeaning the poster rather than the post is not discussion.
2) An "Opinion" does not have to be defended. Right or wrong, I don't have give reasons why I think EE is the best thing Disney ever created or that it is an average coaster with an excuse for themeing that does nothing for me.
3) If you want to have a discussion on the merits or lack of in regard to Everest or anything else, that's fine. State those facts, concerns, thoughts, whatever....and stay away from petty semantics and unrelated comments on posters intelligence, verbal skills, naivete, or their mother and you might be taken more seriously.
4) A discussion does not have winners and loosers. If you are so intent on showing that someone is wrong, that their "evidence" is flawed, and that you are right....that is called an argument.
5) Unfortunately, while you may get confused, you rarely ask questions...your rebuttals are more like comments, insults and sullen restatement of your "facts"

While I fully agree with you that Everest is just an OK coaster with OK theming, I can't agree with your thinly disguised approach in belittling others and presenting yourself as the misunderstood enlightened superior.

 

[albino_pygmy]

First off, that was not ment to be an insult to you or anyone else who labels themself as a fanboy, it was used to get the point across that they're here getting in touch with you guys and there's a good chance that you'll be talking to your friends about what this one guy from WDI said, and so on.

Secondly, yes this is a discussion board, and things won't get ugly and argumentative if people didn't sling insults at eachother as one member so lovingly called another Richard Cranium, then you wouldn't have had the need to feel that what my opinion was an insult when it wasn't. If you guys all played nice, then I'm sure when you re read my post you quoted, you'll see it wasn't derogatory. Maybe there is a degrading connonation to the term 'famboy' which is that most fanboys are harsh negative critics of everything and are hard to please, but I wouldn't know since I'm not a fanboy

 

[ClemsonTigger]

First off, that was not ment to be an insult to you or anyone else who labels themself as a fanboy, it was used to get the point across that they're here getting in touch with you guys and there's a good chance that you'll be talking to your friends about what this one guy from WDI said, and so on.

Secondly, yes this is a discussion board, and things won't get ugly and argumentative if people didn't sling insults at eachother as one member so lovingly called another Richard Cranium, then you wouldn't have had the need to feel that what my opinion was an insult when it wasn't. If you guys all played nice, then I'm sure when you re read my post you quoted, you'll see it wasn't derogatory. Maybe there is a degrading connonation to the term 'famboy' which is that most fanboys are harsh negative critics of everything and are hard to please, but I wouldn't know since I'm not a fanboy

I think you know full well that that is the connotation, and even after re-reading, I can't help but feel that was your intent in it's use.

You are totally right with things being ugly and argumentative, and that inappropriate things are being said that have no place in the discussion (or attempt at a discussion). But don't "you guys" me as if the nonsense is one sided. You can't poke a stick in a hornets nest and then complain when you get stung.

 

[albino_pygmy]

Sorry if I can't please you with my opinion, as you said, I don't need to defend it, fanboy

 

[whylightbulb]

I don't have much time this week to be reading or posting ... and Servo's salvo in the never-ending war of how great or crappy (and it's really no where near either) took me almost five minutes to read!

I'm personally done talking about EE unless there's something newsworthy to discuss.

I'm just glad you're here lightbulb as it's very clear you know what you're talking about. I, frankly, wouldn't even put out as much personal info as you are doing because there are some folks here who I find to be a bit ... 'off' ... would be the best word. Certainly not all, but I wouldn't put it above them to try and find out exactly who you are in hopes of winning some imaginary pi$$ing contest by puking out things online that have no place here. You need to be cautious. ... Anyhow, I do enjoy your POV greatly.

I've tried to get a few friends from WDI to post here and they are too smart for that!

Well, you might have noticed that I stay away from negative comments directed at WDI contract administration, accounts payable, upper management and specific producers and vendor selection decision makers.:lol:

But seriously, I don't think anyone would be able to discover who I am from the information I've divulged (that is not a challenge by the way). There are literally hundereds of people I could be from what I've said and from what could be found out. I'm sure that could be narrowed down quite a bit but even if it were narrowed down to ten people I would still be safe.

I once worked for a company that has been added to the no bid list numerous times and they still to this day continue to get work from WDI and UC. I'd rather not be in that position but if it were to come down to it I would probably be okay. Your WDI friends would most likely not fare as well.

You are right about the imaginary contests. Some think we are on here to try and prove how smart we are or how we were top in our debate club. I'm not so interested in winning an argument as I am in just making people think a bit.

 

[albino_pygmy]

You are right about the imaginary contests. Some think we are on here to try and prove how smart we are or how we were top in our debate club. I'm not so interested in winning an argument as I am in just making people think a bit.

Isn't that the whole point of discussion boards, is to make us think through discussion? Unfortunately to some, they much rather prefer their ing contests than actually wanting to learn something new or see things from a new persepective, and I want to thank you and 74 for sharing with us your opinions based off your experience working for those great companies. I do hope that the rest feels the same way, because as you said, not many of you guys would ever dare waste your time here on a discussion board with a bunch of fanboys.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Secondly, yes this is a discussion board, and things won't get ugly and argumentative if people didn't sling insults at eachother as one member so lovingly called another Richard Cranium, t

How do you know I wasnt referring to you :drevil:

 

[whylightbulb]

Isn't that the whole point of discussion boards, is to make us think through discussion? Unfortunately to some, they much rather prefer their ing contests than actually wanting to learn something new or see things from a new persepective, and I want to thank you and 74 for sharing with us your opinions based off your experience working for those great companies. I do hope that the rest feels the same way, because as you said, not many of you guys would ever dare waste your time here on a discussion board with a bunch of fanboys.

Thanks. It's good to know that there are some with an open mind. By the way, I'm open as well. I realize I don't know everything and am always willing to try and see something from a different perspective.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

First off, that was not ment to be an insult to you or anyone else who labels themself as a fanboy, it was used to get the point across that they're here getting in touch with you guys and there's a good chance that you'll be talking to your friends about what this one guy from WDI said, and so on.

Secondly, yes this is a discussion board, and things won't get ugly and argumentative if people didn't sling insults at eachother as one member so lovingly called another Richard Cranium, then you wouldn't have had the need to feel that what my opinion was an insult when it wasn't. If you guys all played nice, then I'm sure when you re read my post you quoted, you'll see it wasn't derogatory. Maybe there is a degrading connonation to the term 'famboy' which is that most fanboys are harsh negative critics of everything and are hard to please, but I wouldn't know since I'm not a fanboy

Sorry if I can't please you with my opinion, as you said, I don't need to defend it, fanboy

Isn't that the whole point of discussion boards, is to make us think through discussion? Unfortunately to some, they much rather prefer their ing contests than actually wanting to learn something new or see things from a new persepective, and I want to thank you and 74 for sharing with us your opinions based off your experience working for those great companies. I do hope that the rest feels the same way, because as you said, not many of you guys would ever dare waste your time here on a discussion board with a bunch of fanboys.

Considering you claim that no "insult" is meant, you're not doing a very good job of supporting your supposed naivete at the same time complaining about other "name calling".
Petty

 

[albino_pygmy]

The first time it wasn't ment to be derogatory, and neither were the others. It's your twisted opinion to see them as insults because to me, it's just a label to classify you and several other posters.