Seven Dwarves Mine Ride Construction

[lazyboy97o]

Just because the recent history of E-Ticket attractions has mostly been of the thrill ride variety, does not mean they are the only way an attraction can be considered as such. The Mine Train Thru Nature's Wonderland, Jungle Cruise, The Haunted Mansion, Submarine Voyage, "it's a small world," Enchanted Tiki Room and Country Bear Jamboree were all E-Tickets when that system was in use.

 

[Mike730]

While I'm not in "in the know" on this project, I can offer a minor correction that would help with the image. It looks like you stretched the layout to the right to align the walls which appears correct. However, the turn going into the lift, that is the curve at the bottom turning up away from the Teacups, you can see is far short of the poured structure in the photo. If the track layout were stretched down towards Pooh, this would allow the track to curve prior to the concrete allowing for the longer lift section, which I believe to be the case. Also, the original D3 models show the queue (I refer to the pink in your image) as being much closer to the path. So grab the bottom of that track pic and drag'er down towards the path. That will also increase the waterway on the upper left, which based on the bridge, would then align better. I think you'll have licked it at that point.

All in all, great work! :wave: Your effort helps make it all the more clear and more fun to envision the ride. Many people are comparing it to BTMRR, but in all reality, it's a smaller ride to replace Snow White's Scary Adventure. While SWSA is a classic, it's very old and lacks the in depth theme we all enjoy so much. I think this Mine ride is going to be a lot of fun no matter what level of thrills it's targeting and should be a beautiful addition to the park.

Great observation. I also notice this now because I have the brown matched to the top of the wall, when it should be matched with the bottom because the layout is an overhead view. I'm not really sure exactly where you were gettin at, but I'm thinking this is closer. Even the construction walls match. Also dont forget that this isn't a blueprint, it' Lee's paint rendition of the blueprint, so it may not be perfect in scale and also that the drawing is overhead, but the photo is on an angle. Either way, Lee's drawing looks to be pretty accurate as far as I can tell from the current construction progress. So, thanks again for that Lee.

 

[Tom]

Great observation. I also notice this now because I have the brown matched to the top of the wall, when it should be matched with the bottom because the layout is an overhead view. I'm not really sure where you were gettin at, but I'm thinking this is closer.

This one is nearly perfect.

 

[Lee]

So, thanks again for that Lee.

You are all quite welcome.

This one is nearly perfect.

Yep, it is. Good work, Mike730.:wave:

 

[WDW1974]

The mine coaster is clearly not going to be a B ticket, or even close. Regardless of if it's as thrilling or long as some of us hoped it would be, it's definitely not going to be on the same level as the Tea Cups or the Treehouse.
You guys can be as hyperbolic as you want, but even by todays standards this is an E ticket ride.

And I get that people are entitled to opinions, no matter how crazy they are. It doesn't mean that others have to respect them or give credence to them.

E-Tickets are massive, expensive, bar-raising experiences ... everything from Mansion to ToT to KS to MS or TT or PoC etc qualify.

A kiddie coaster simply doesn't. Now, on a personal level, it may be someone's (even older than 10) favorite attraction and for them, that's what matters.

But from a mass perspective that's not the case.

~The Weatherman: Now clearing Bay Lake foliage!~

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by danlb_2000
Personally I think the whole ticket level discussion (which like to many other topics seems to pop back up on a regular basis) is pointless. It's really all a matter of opinion. Expedition Everest may be an E-ticket, but it's a A-ticket for me because I don't like roller coasters and will never ride it. It's all subjective.

Dan

That's all well and good, but the ticketing nomenclature is still used internally, and if someone called the Mine Train an E to an Imagineer, he'd probably be too busy laughing to correct them.

THIS!

~So what's the Twitterverse saying about One More Disney Day?~

 

[WDW1974]

Guaranteed.:lol:
Imagineers call it a C or a D depending on who you ask. Mermaid is usually called a D, internally. (Some think that is generous.)

Doesn't make either a bad ride, but should set expectations.

Well, I think it depends on which folks you speak with ... folks based in FLA and/or working on the project tend to grade upward, but when you talk to those at WDI who aren't a part of it, you tend to get a lower (more realistic in my less than humble opinion) grade.

I have not had one Imagineer call the mine train a D, ever. And when the others call it a C, it is largely because it has 'show scenes' ... that's how they grade it up from the Barnstormer, which is considered a B.

And you are accurate regarding Mermaid, most I know grudgingly give it D status, although a few (one name that 80% of the folks here would likely know) simply calls it 'an extended C' ... I call it a C+

But it is all about expectations and not going all ape pooh over something, but judging it by fair and realistic metrics ... and not simply emotion.

~Am I bad? Or simply drawn that way?~

 

[WDW1974]

Its ashame when Disney promotes FLE expansion as doubling the size of FL and the park's largest expansion ever.. and all we get for it's anchor actractions are a dark ride that has been panned and a coaster people are intent on lowering expectations down to as low as possible.

Disney's biggest thing they can boast about this expansion is.. the amount of space it eats up. Well done Disney.. well done.

Well, the whole selling of it is simply a lie ... wrapped in PR spin.

When you bulldoze a land and its attractions to expand another land onto said acres and reclaim an area that once held one E-Ticket attraction (and a signature one at that) and had another D-Ticket that glided over it and then you present the area as not only an expansion, but the largest in history, I believe it is disingenuous at best.

At the end of the day, there's a new train station replacing the old, a rethemed version of the same kiddie coaster, Dumbo relocated and doubled in capacity, princess meet and greets relocated and replacing others that were there and a SW dark ride, Mermaid taking up a large chunk of the 20K footprint and the mine train taking more land ... I guess the real expansion is in dining facilities, but a Spirit could easily argue that they aren't needed if management simply redid and reopened all the shuttered locations that exist now.

~Leap Day Spirit~

 

[WDW1974]

It sounds like both can be considered in the C/D range. I view Mermaid as a substantial step up as Peter Pan's Flight and Winnie the Pooh and for most people that's really a better point of comparison.

That's a fair comparison ... but I'd rather ride PPF in Anaheim than LM. The former just has a charm to it ... the latter feels very plastic and manufactured.

WDW1974/Lee - I understand they're different types of attractions but if Mine Train is in the B/C category where would you slot the other Fantasyland dark rides in both Florida and California?

Hey, we aren't the same person now ... although Mrs. Lee does refer to me as 'my other husband!'

But I view all FLA and CAL dark rides squarely as C-Tix ... some are better than others (in both parks), but they all are similar enough ... and there's not an Imagineer I know that considers them anything but.

My personal faves are DL's Pan, Toad and Alice and MK's Pooh.

~Is Lou live now?~

 

[jme]

And I get that people are entitled to opinions, no matter how crazy they are. It doesn't mean that others have to respect them or give credence to them.

E-Tickets are massive, expensive, bar-raising experiences ... everything from Mansion to ToT to KS to MS or TT or PoC etc qualify.

A kiddie coaster simply doesn't. Now, on a personal level, it may be someone's (even older than 10) favorite attraction and for them, that's what matters.

But from a mass perspective that's not the case.

~The Weatherman: Now clearing Bay Lake foliage!~

I don't think this is going to be a bar-raising, massive experience. And I don't define E-Ticket as such. I guess that's where we differ. And that's fine.

I do think this ride will be better than a "B" by any definition. I think it's the WDW cynic in everyone that is giving this project such a hard time. I guess I'm just an optimist. I get that this isn't going to be a thrill ride, and I don't think it should be either. I think it will be a FUN ride. I also think that the swinging trains will be what sets this apart from kiddie coasters. Not in a 'thrilling' aspect, but in a fun aspect. It wont have as many animatronics and scenes as something like Pirates or HM, but I think it will be just as fun.

Long story short, I look forward to taking my kids on this, but I also look forward to taking myself on it, because it looks like it will be fun.

 

[nor'easter]

That's a fair comparison ... but I'd rather ride PPF in Anaheim than LM. The former just has a charm to it ... the latter feels very plastic and manufactured.


~

I think you put your finger on it. I've been wondering why I was so underwhelmed by DCA's Mermaid. The show sets and AA`s are superior to the other C tkt attractions in Fantasyland.. But it lacks the charm of Peter Pan and Alice, or even the atmosphere of Snow White. You are right...it feels very plastic, sterile, and lacks imagination.

 

[Daannzzz]

I have seen this mentioned before but I wonder if much of the problem with the old dark rides vs the new ones has to do with the ADA requirements. Look at Pooh and Monster's INC and even Toy Story Mania where the sets a larger but farther away and the path the vehicle takes is larger. Even the vehicles themselves are larger. The path the vehicle takes is much broader and everything just gets out of proportion for a "small" dark ride. Part of my issue with the mermaid is that it seems like they stuck to the linear story to the detriment of the attraction. I would have like to have the "big" room toward the very end of the ride but the
big" room needed more real animatronics as opposed to all those plastic molds moving back and forth or spinning around.

 

[Tom]

I do think this ride will be better than a "B" by any definition. I think it's the WDW cynic in everyone that is giving this project such a hard time. I guess I'm just an optimist. I get that this isn't going to be a thrill ride, and I don't think it should be either. I think it will be a FUN ride. I also think that the swinging trains will be what sets this apart from kiddie coasters. Not in a 'thrilling' aspect, but in a fun aspect. It wont have as many animatronics and scenes as something like Pirates or HM, but I think it will be just as fun.

I like your wording here. You pretty much summarized exactly what the intent of this ride will be. Whether it's a B, C or D is just something for Imagineers and Fan Boys to toss around. If families and kids can enjoy it, and find it more appealing than the Do-It-Yourself Coaster Kit that is Barnstormer, it's a win.

If anyone is expecting a thrill ride in Fantasyland, they're nuts. I'm hopeful that they'll build us something that will make kids feel like grown-ups because they're riding a fun coaster with show scenes and characters...yet will also be visually appealing for us adults.

I think you put your finger on it. I've been wondering why I was so underwhelmed by DCA's Mermaid. The show sets and AA`s are superior to the other C tkt attractions in Fantasyland.. But it lacks the charm of Peter Pan and Alice, or even the atmosphere of Snow White. You are right...it feels very plastic, sterile, and lacks imagination.

I have seen this mentioned before but I wonder if much of the problem with the old dark rides vs the new ones has to do with the ADA requirements. Look at Pooh and Monster's INC and even Toy Story Mania where the sets a larger but farther away and the path the vehicle takes is larger. Even the vehicles themselves are larger. The path the vehicle takes is much broader and everything just gets out of proportion for a "small" dark ride. Part of my issue with the mermaid is that it seems like they stuck to the linear story to the detriment of the attraction. I would have like to have the "big" room toward the very end of the ride but the
big" room needed more real animatronics as opposed to all those plastic molds moving back and forth or spinning around.

I haven't experienced LM at DCA, so I can't speak for that exactly, but I've seen the videos and it does seem "sterile". I don't think it has anything to do with ADA though. That would only affect load/unload and vehicle size for the wheelchair pods only (and a few emerg exit paths throughout the ride).

What they're lacking in newer dark rides is intimacy and immersion. When you ride HM, you feel like you're alone. In Peter Pan, while you can see other ships, the lighting and sight lines are such that you're focused more on the show, and feel as if you're part of everything...and alone. Same even for Pooh and SWSA - the ride vehicles are separated just enough that you enjoy your own experience.

When I watch the videos, I see an entire building that's lit, and big, expansive, open show scenes. Maybe that's just the video though. I really need to experience WDW's version to see how it stacks up, in my own opinion.

Of course, the WDI legends that gave us classics like HM are long gone, and they'll never be replaced.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Personally, I look at the old-school dark rides as C tickets, and the Mine Ride as a D.

That's a fair comparison ... but I'd rather ride PPF in Anaheim than LM. The former just has a charm to it ... the latter feels very plastic and manufactured.



Hey, we aren't the same person now ... although Mrs. Lee does refer to me as 'my other husband!'

But I view all FLA and CAL dark rides squarely as C-Tix ... some are better than others (in both parks), but they all are similar enough ... and there's not an Imagineer I know that considers them anything but.

My personal faves are DL's Pan, Toad and Alice and MK's Pooh.

~Is Lou live now?~

I'd agree that the Fantasyland dark rides are all C tickets, with things like Pinocchio perhaps being on the lower end. The presence of a show scene will probably make most people regard Mine Train as at least a C, and as others have posted - thrill rides tend to get a boost simple for that component. I look at something like Dumbo as a B, but Primeval Whirl or Barnstormer as C's. It's all relative though so stating a single attraction is an A/B/C/D/E ticket doesn't mean a whole lot without knowing how that same person regards other attractions.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

When I watch the videos, I see an entire building that's lit, and big, expansive, open show scenes. Maybe that's just the video though. I really need to experience WDW's version to see how it stacks up, in my own opinion.

Having seen it in person I can say that there are scenes like the opening and Poor Unfortunate Souls that do have a sense of intimacy, but Under the Sea is is as you described it there and almost entirely populated by non-AA figures. It's the scene that needs the most amount of fixing IMO.

As long as we're throwing random letters and opinions here I'd say it's a D based on the length and quality of key figures, but agree 100% with the Unofficial Guide's rating of 3.5/5. I still liked it and went on it 3 times last week.

The worst thing about WDW's version will be Fastpass causing waits to be longer than they need to be. Never was more than 15 minutes posted from what I saw at the time.

On a seperate note Peter Pan at WDW has a better layout (again IMO) and could be better overall if they ever bother to update the effects and exterior like DL did. Alice and Toad are my favorites at DL Fantasyland and I really wish they were at WDW too. Alice does a very good job of craming alot of visuals into a small space and Toad just plain has the best looking exterior and load area of all the Fantasyland rides there. Snow White is better at DL too, but I think the layout of the final scene is (soon to be was) better at WDW with the Witch directly above the track and not off to the side.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The thing about Fastpass being on Little Mermaid is that it won't have the same effect as Fastpass on Toy Story Mania. For Toy Story, every single possible fastpass on any given day is distributed. This means that the set # of available fastpasses in every 5 minute interval are all distributed before that 5 minute period is up and the return time is forced to increase by 5 minutes. At Little Mermaid, you're not going to have the full allocation being distributed simply because the demand won't be there. The same will be true of all of the other attractions that are having Fastpass added - none of them will have the Fastpass demand that the existing high demand Fastpass attractions will have.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The thing about Fastpass being on Little Mermaid is that it won't have the same effect as Fastpass on Toy Story Mania. For Toy Story, every single possible fastpass on any given day is distributed. This means that the set # of available fastpasses in every 5 minute interval are all distributed before that 5 minute period is up and the return time is forced to increase by 5 minutes. At Little Mermaid, you're not going to have the full allocation being distributed simply because the demand won't be there. The same will be true of all of the other attractions that are having Fastpass added - none of them will have the Fastpass demand that the existing high demand Fastpass attractions will have.

I'm not suggesting waits with Fastpass introduced will be as bad as TSMM (they never could), but they still will be longer due to the standby line having to stop in order to let the Fastpass people on first, instead of moving at a continuous rate. I also think the intial "newness" factor of the ride and its character tie in will drive demand for the Fastpasses more than the actual limitations of the ride's capacity, artificially inflating the need for them.

 

[KCheatle]

Taken from Yesterland.com

From the Disneyland Guide, Summer 1972:

A coupon or 10¢

* Main Street Horse Cars (Main Street)
* Horseless Carriage (Main Street)
* Omnibus (Main Street)
* Fire Engine (Main Street)
* King Arthur Carousel (Fantasyland)
* Sleeping Beauty Castle (Fantasyland)

B coupon or 25¢

* Main Street Cinema (Main Street)
* Motor Boat Cruise (Fantasyland)
* Swiss Family Treehouse (Adventureland)
* Casey Junior Circus Train (Fantasyland)
* Alice in Wonderland (Fantasyland)

C coupon or 40¢

* Fantasyland Theater (Fantasyland)
* Mad Tea Party (Fantasyland)
* Autopias (Fantasyland, Tomorrowland)
* Shooting Galleries (Fronierland, Adventureland)
* Peter Pan Flight (Fantasyland)
* Dumbo Flying Elephants (Fantasyland)
* Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride (Fantasyland)
* Snow White’s Adventures (Fantasyland)
* Mike Fink Keel Boats (Frontierland)
* Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln (Main Street)

D coupon or 70¢

* Rocket Jets (Tomorrowland)
* PeopleMover presented by Goodyear (Tomorrowland)
* Flight to the Moon presented by McDonnell Douglas (Tomorrowland)
* Storybookland Canal Boats (Fantasyland)
* Skyway (Tomorrowland, Fantasyland)
* Tom Sawyer Island Rafts (Frontierland)
* Davy Crockett’s Explorer Canoes (Bear Country)
* Santa Fe & Disneyland Railroad (Main Street, New Orleans Square and Tomorrowland)
* Columbia Sailing Ship (Frontierland)
* Mark Twain Steamboat (Frontierland)

E coupon or 85¢ (adults), 75¢ (children)

* Mine Train Ride (Frontierland)
* Pack Mules (Frontierland)
* Jungle River Cruise (Adventureland)
* Disneyland-Alweg Monorail Trains (Tomorrowland)
* Matterhorn Bobsleds (Fantasyland)
* It’s a Small World presented by Bank of America (Fantasyland)
* Enchanted Tiki Room presented by United Airlines (Adventureland)
* Submarine Voyage (Tomorrowland)
* Pirates of the Caribbean (New Orleans Square)
* Country Bear Jamboree (Bear Country)
* Haunted Mansion (New Orleans Square)


This would arguably put The Little Mermaid and The Mine Ride in the D-Ticket range.

This doesn't make sense to me??? How is Small World considered better than Peter Pan? Is it the water? I really don't understand why the Tiki Room and Country Bear Jamboree are so high?

Essentially, this breakdown of rides doesn't seem to be based on "thrill factor" or "technology" completely, but also on the popularity of the ride. In other words, how can people start to categorize the rides when the criteria is so ambiguous?

 

[flynnibus]

This doesn't make sense to me??? How is Small World considered better than Peter Pan? Is it the water? I really don't understand why the Tiki Room and Country Bear Jamboree are so high?

They were later additions so they were the 'new and impressive' attractions. Tiki Room was really the first of it's kind with all the heavy AAs. CBJ was unique with having a full performance show like that.. with all AAs. I think you are looking at them from a 2010+ view instead of the perspective of the time.

Essentially, this breakdown of rides doesn't seem to be based on "thrill factor" or "technology" completely, but also on the popularity of the ride. In other words, how can people start to categorize the rides when the criteria is so ambiguous?

Scale...
Immersion...
Uniqueness...
Demand...

All are factors that are wound into the pricing of the rides. We can't forget.. the ticket books were about how rides were PRICED - not purely for marketing, etc.

 

[bhg469]

This turned into an interesting thread. I was thinking about most of this when I went solo today.