Segways spark suit vs. Disney

[ClemsonTigger]

So until the Segway gains certification as such, is it a haphazard device in a theme park?

btw, I've corrected my previous post

It would be (and is) a recreational vehicle....like wheelies, skateboards, bicycles, horses .....

...and by the way MKT....you left out the most hazardous ride in the disney parks (as defined by OSHA).....the train!

 

[mkt]

It would be (and is) a recreational vehicle....like wheelies, skateboards, bicycles, horses .....

actually, the horse is debatable, as there are horses that are certified as service animals
Two questions for you: Were seatbelts and airbags any less safe until legislation required their use? Do you personally see a potential use for a segway as a mobility assistance device.

...and by the way MKT....you left out the most hazardous ride in the disney parks (as defined by OSHA).....the train!

really now? It is? I swore it was the TTA/People Move. Is it public record, I'm genuinely interested.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

actually, the horse is debatable, as there are horses that are certified as service animals
Two questions for you: Were seatbelts and airbags any less safe until legislation required their use? Do you personally see a potential use for a segway as a mobility assistance device.



really now? It is? I swore it was the TTA/People Move. Is it public record, I'm genuinely interested.

Nope, not much compares to the explosive capability of a steam engine. Can't give you a reference off hand.

Oh, and thanks so much for the Avatar! I am having some interesting conversations with my associates in our Burlington facility as well.

 

[mkt]

Nope, not much compares to the explosive capability of a steam engine. Can't give you a reference off hand.

Just wondering Are WDW's engines actually Steam? Must like the steamship, I thought they were actually diesel. Regardless though, I can't give a reference off hand either for the TTA, but I do remember reading that in more than one place.

Oh, and thanks so much for the Avatar! I am having some interesting conversations with my associates in our Burlington facility as well.

hehe... We're a BC/Yale family I'm recording the BC/Clemson and Yale/Harvard games this weekend for my folks.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

actually, the horse is debatable, as there are horses that are certified as service animals
Two questions for you: Were seatbelts and airbags any less safe until legislation required their use? Do you personally see a potential use for a segway as a mobility assistance device.



really now? It is? I swore it was the TTA/People Move. Is it public record, I'm genuinely interested.

Yes, but I don't think you will find guests bringing them into the parks any time soon.

Seatbelts and airbags any less safe????? don't understand your point

I do see the potential for a Segway like vehicle to serve that purpose, although it would look much more like the iBot than the recreational Segway. Two main issues that I see are vehicle speed and due to it's upright shape, it's ability (albiet rare) to tip or throw the rider (ie. George W)

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Just wondering Are WDW's engines actually Steam? Must like the steamship, I thought they were actually diesel. Regardless though, I can't give a reference off hand either for the TTA, but I do remember reading that in more than one place.



hehe... We're a BC/Yale family I'm recording the BC/Clemson and Yale/Harvard games this weekend for my folks.

Actually they are both. The engines are steam engines. Steam pressure powers the wheels. The steam is generated using diesel fuel (instead of the historical wood or coal).

 

[slowbee]

I'm going to agree that this is a very touchy subject to comment on, but I'm going to give my two cents.

I'm very sympathetic towards any person needing assistance getting around. My grandfather, who just passed away this past April, had Polio since the age of 6 had to end up getting a EVC to get around. My grandmother and aunt both need canes and walkers to get around, and so on and so on.. So, I understand the needs of the physically challenged. And I'm going to find myself there someday (I've played alot of football).

But, as a father of 3 girls, two under the age of three, I wouldn't be happy if one of my girls got hurt because someone used a Segway vs. a EVC or a wheelchair. There is, at this point in time, a far less of a serious injury vs. someone running you over with a Segway. Think how many people have written about getting bumped with a double stroller (sorry to those I may have healed in my trip) and the EVC's now.

Disney provides alternatives for those who need assistance and I personally side with Disney on this one UNTIL Segways can be just a cautious as the wheelchairs and EVC "appear" to be.

 

[mkt]

Yes, but I don't think you will find guests bringing them into the parks any time soon.

Actually, I've seen service ponies twice in the parks But compared to the numbers of service dogs, this is completely negligible... and until 4 months ago, I went to the parks 4-5 times a week.

Seatbelts and airbags any less safe????? don't understand your point

The point is this- Until their use (and installation in vehicles) were made compulsory, the manufacturers lobbied against them in congress.... over items that at the time had not yet conclusively been proven to save lives, but now do. Just because there is no evidence yet that the Segway can't safely serve that purpose does not mean it cannot succesfully do so. Unfortunately, all people see is another item piloted by tourists that will run over their foot, like the ECV's, wheelchairs, and rental strollers Disney provides.

I do see the potential for a Segway like vehicle to serve that purpose, although it would look much more like the iBot than the recreational Segway. Two main issues that I see are vehicle speed and due to it's upright shape, it's ability (albiet rare) to tip or throw the rider (ie. George W)

The average human walks at 3mph (which for my hypothesis will be the speed in which the average WDW guest walks at). Electric wheelchairs top speeds range from 3mph-10mph depending on the model, so I will settle on a median of 6.5mph. A segway has a top speed of 12.5mph. Already, we have electric wheelchairs allowed in the parks that are capable of doing speeds more than twice as fast as the average human walking speed. Again, why are they allowed, since they also go faster than a human? As for George W being thrown off a segway... I don't think his being thrown off had anything to do with the machine

 

[mkt]

Actually they are both. The engines are steam engines. Steam pressure powers the wheels. The steam is generated using diesel fuel (instead of the historical wood or coal).

ahh.. neat

 

[songbird]

the comparison of Segways to seat belts and air bags is flawed.


the auto industry lobbied against making their use mandatory, the industry offered the devices as an option. the industry's contention was that seatbelts and airbags were substitutes for safe drving practices and that the focus should be on driver education --- and allow the industry to save money by not requiring the industry to equip vehicles with safety devices. the industry was ultimately compelled to add safety devices to motor vehicles.

the argument here is whether Disney should be compelled to allow the use fo a recreational vehicle on its property in the place of a medicallly approved mobility device, or whether such an accomodation poses a safety risk to other patrons.

and FYI, if you're going to quote facts and statistics in support of your contentions, please provide the source of such statistics. if your information is faulty it does not support your argument.

 

[mkt]

and FYI, if you're going to quote facts and statistics in support of your contentions, please provide the source of such statistics. if your information is faulty it does not support your argument.

Googled it

3mph top speed electric wheelchair
10mph top speed electric wheelchair
12.5mph to speed segway
Average human speed 3mph

In this search what I did not mention was there are models with 15mph+ top speeds, however due to their designs (one required standing, and appeared to be a 3 legged segway, the other was shaped like a motorized scooter (ie Vespa) which would likely result in their denied entry to the park, even though these have the ADA (FDA) definition that escapes the Segway. Personally, I'd like to see that suit.

 

[shoppingnut]

A vespa, now I hadn't even consider that might be something to ride in the parks, hmmm, much smaller than the golf cart idea I liked.

 

[wdwmomof3]

I'm going to agree that this is a very touchy subject to comment on, but I'm going to give my two cents.

I'm very sympathetic towards any person needing assistance getting around. My grandfather, who just passed away this past April, had Polio since the age of 6 had to end up getting a EVC to get around. My grandmother and aunt both need canes and walkers to get around, and so on and so on.. So, I understand the needs of the physically challenged. And I'm going to find myself there someday (I've played alot of football).

But, as a father of 3 girls, two under the age of three, I wouldn't be happy if one of my girls got hurt because someone used a Segway vs. a EVC or a wheelchair. There is, at this point in time, a far less of a serious injury vs. someone running you over with a Segway. Think how many people have written about getting bumped with a double stroller (sorry to those I may have healed in my trip) and the EVC's now.

Disney provides alternatives for those who need assistance and I personally side with Disney on this one UNTIL Segways can be just a cautious as the wheelchairs and EVC "appear" to be.

As a mom of three, I agree with you completely.

 

[mkt]

A vespa, now I hadn't even consider that might be something to ride in the parks, hmmm, much smaller than the golf cart idea I liked.

I own a Vespa, and would love nothing more than to ride around WDW in it...

...but that's not gonna happen

 

[shoppingnut]

I own a Vespa, and would love nothing more than to ride around WDW in it...

...but that's not gonna happen

Yes, but one can envision it and have a good laugh about it.

 

[mkt]

Riding a Vespa around world showcase.

Like a slice of paradise

 

[MickeyTigg]

Yes, but that has no direct bearing on the lawsuit.

Although I personally side with Disney on this one, the individuals have an argument. If I were given the choice from the standpoint of personal dignity between driving a scooter or driving a Segway, I would certainly feel more comfortable using the latter. That said, the Segway can move considerably faster and would pose a higher risk to other park guests.

My primary concern is rather different though. How could Disney stop wealthy patrons who could afford Segways without problem from bringing them into the parks? As I understand it, the ADA won't allow them to challenge the disability of an individual. Although someone who is wealthy is unlikely to see any 'prestige' attached to driving a scooter, they might very well see it as one-up-manship to ride their personal Segway... Who's to stop them? :shrug:

Here's the main argument that Disney will use and successfully...Segway has not claim nor has it asked for the Segway device to be declared a medical device. The FDA has not classified it as a medical device. Since its not a medical device, medicare will not cover it. If it is not a medical device, Disney has no legal obligation to allow it's use in the parks.

End of story.

 

[mkt]

Here's the main argument that Disney will use and successfully...Segway has not claim nor has it asked for the Segway device to be declared a medical device. The FDA has not classified it as a medical device. Since its not a medical device, medicare will not cover it. If it is not a medical device, Disney has no legal obligation to allow it's use in the parks.

End of story.

which is why they're being sued, to obligate them to do as such.

 

[calismic]

which is why they're being sued, to obligate them to do as such.

It's not Disney's decision which devices are categorized for disabilities. Until Segways are approved for medical use (which they won't be anytime soon) then Disney is under no obligation to allow them in their parks. The ONLY reason they are suing Disney is to get Media attention.

 

[mkt]

It's not Disney's decision which devices are categorized for disabilities. Until Segways are approved for medical use (which they won't be anytime soon) then Disney is under no obligation to allow them in their parks. The ONLY reason they are suing Disney is to get Media attention.

Which has been stated by myself and others... however Disney doesn't have to be obligated by law to do what's right for these people.