Segways spark suit vs. Disney

[songbird]

The same way you differentiate a service animal from a pet.

Take the owners word.

Or add some sort of physical distinction, as easy as day-glo reflective stripes at appropriate areas.

that is an idea with merit, service animals are usually wearing some sort of harness that makes it easy for the rest of us to identify them as such.

if it gets tot the point where the segway is considered a medical device, adding some identifying feature -- similar to a handicapped parking permit -- would distinguish betwen someone needing the device and someone simply playing with one.

 

[songbird]

You are 110% correct with that statement. The basic argument is whether or not these are safe in the parks. Personally I feel they are safe, as this does not deviate from its intended usage.

Too blue? Too literal? :lol:

now that's a scary picture!!!

 

[mkt]

if your LSAT's are tha t good, you should go to law school -- you do make an impressive argument. you should go work for the plaintiff's bar, you've nailed all the arguments justifying plaintiffs' suit. (or did the attorney sitting beside you help you out?)

LSAT of 168 with a GPA of 3.8. No law school for me though... there's too many lawyers in the family (seriously... Dad, Grandpa, Uncle, 2 sisters, 1 brother, and the list continues). I'm the artist of the bunch That means I'll finish my MFA and then consider an MBA :lol:

it's Disney's contention that the devices are dangerous. it's the majority opinion of those on this board, and on other Disney boards I frequent, that disney's contention is correct. our opinion, however, doesn't count -- what counts is evidence and/or the the scientifically-based opinions fo the experts which will be hired by each side.

exactly, and I hope this makes it far enough to have to hire experts. I am genuinely interested in this matter.

segways are not medical devices. and I think the plaintiffs have an uphill battle to get a court to recognize a Segway as a medical device for ADA purposes.

Sadly, it seems to me that most progressive measures are uphill battles.

 

[mkt]

that is an idea with merit, service animals are usually wearing some sort of harness that makes it easy for the rest of us to identify them as such.

if it gets tot the point where the segway is considered a medical device, adding some identifying feature -- similar to a handicapped parking permit -- would distinguish betwen someone needing the device and someone simply playing with one.

See.. we're solving the problem already :lol:

 

[mkt]

now that's a scary picture!!!

That's why I couldn't make it as an attorney

My sense of humor gets me in trouble too often that I have to argue my way out of. I'm too busy arguing my way out of trouble to argue on behalf of others :lookaroun

 

[NASAMan]

One law that has not been discussed is not on the books. It is the 'Law of Unintended Consequences'. Many laws and rulings, while made with the best of intentions, create many more problems than they solve. It was said the Segway would change the way cities are laid out and function. That has not occured (yet) due to cost and other factors, but with gas prices going up it could become a more economical alternative. If Disney allows Segways, how will that change the parks? Could they restrict them to those who medically require or need them (anyone can rent a wheelchair - they don't ask why you need it) or will anybody who shows up with one be allowed entrance? Again, how might the way Disney does its business change? In previous posts, I've stated I'm a big fan of the Segway and would love to have one to wheel the 50 feet to the mailbox and back. So this is an honest question. Did the Disney experience change with the introduction of the ECV? What might we learn from that?

 

[hemloc]

And you know a jury is going to want to go to WDW and try riding the segway through crowds for themselves... CASE CLOSED:hammer:!

 

[mkt]

and you should buy some courtesy with that curt post

 

[songbird]

One law that has not been discussed is not on the books. It is the 'Law of Unintended Consequences'. Many laws and rulings, while made with the best of intentions, create many more problems than they solve. It was said the Segway would change the way cities are laid out and function. That has not occured (yet) due to cost and other factors, but with gas prices going up it could become a more economical alternative. If Disney allows Segways, how will that change the parks? Could they restrict them to those who medically require or need them (anyone can rent a wheelchair - they don't ask why you need it) or will anybody who shows up with one be allowed entrance? Again, how might the way Disney does its business change? In previous posts, I've stated I'm a big fan of the Segway and would love to have one to wheel the 50 feet to the mailbox and back. So this is an honest question. Did the Disney experience change with the introduction of the ECV? What might we learn from that?

in a nutshell, hard cases make bad law.

the difference between an EVC or wheelchair and a Segway is obvious. no one asks you if you need an EVC, it's presumed you do because there's no "fun" factor for its use, it's clearly a device intended for use by the disabled, and if you're using one, people perceive you as disabled. in relative terms there aren't all that many people riding around the park on one.

when I was in high school, back in the 1970's, my English teacher who loved old moviesvb got a wonderful gift from his kids -- a Betamax. it was unique technology at the time -- teacher could watch all the old movies he wanted on videotape. it cost thousands, but the kids thought their Dad was worth the money. 30 years later we buy DVD's and use Tivo to record shows, and never think twice about it.

when Segways become less costly they will become very common. now is the time to deal with the issue.

 

[Hakunamatata]

News Flash - No Segways at LAX

Just thought everyone would be interested. Waiting on a flight at LAX. Of the at least two thousand people that have passed where I am sitting while I have been here...none are riding Segways.....not even the people needing the use of a wheelchair....

That is all.

 

[MythBuster]

Everybody who rides a segway on Disney property must attend training. I think at least 2 separate classes totaling about 8 hours. So cast members must attend training classes and then be certified to ride them.

So if a guest comes in to the park with a segway, how do they know if they have been properly trained? just because they say so?

 

[mousermerf]

Because while they want you to think that 4000-7000 people who use segways as a mobility device are a significant number, the truth of the matter is that they represent such a minor number of the general public that specificly accomodating them is well beyond "reasonable."

US Population: 301,139,947
People who visit the MK in a year: 16,640,000

Number of folks on segways in the population? 0.00002%

Assuming an even mix.. that's only 332 people in an entire year who would use them showing up at the MK.

Even if every single person who uses a segway (using their high estimate) goes to WDW in a year, they would represent only 0.0004% of the MK's population.

Now we all know not every single person is going to go, but that all works out to the chances of a person on a segway as a mobility device being in MK on any given day is slim to none. The numbers dont even work out to 1 per day out of MK's ~45k guests.

Wheelchair users are about 1.5% of the population or about 4,517,099 people. In terms of the MK, that's 249,600 people per year. That's 683 per day at the MK.

Less then 1, or 683. Hmm.. which should we accomodate? Which is reasonable to accomodate?

 

[mousermerf]

So this is an honest question. Did the Disney experience change with the introduction of the ECV? What might we learn from that?

We lost stairs and second floors. The parks that existed before ADA were full of second floor areas which only had staircases. As it is now, there are empty areas in parks that were shuttered because there wasn't a good way to build a lift for access.

 

[IcicleM]

We lost stairs and second floors. The parks that existed before ADA were full of second floor areas which only had staircases. As it is now, there are empty areas in parks that were shuttered because there wasn't a good way to build a lift for access.

*cough*Skyway to Tomorrrowland*cough*20,000 Leagues Under the Sea*cough*

 

[JLW11Hi]

We lost stairs and second floors. The parks that existed before ADA were full of second floor areas which only had staircases. As it is now, there are empty areas in parks that were shuttered because there wasn't a good way to build a lift for access.

I think that creating second floor access for convenience vehicles/wheelchairs is a challenge that should be rightfully taken on. Maybe not with the older structures that can't handle it, but at least with everything new. I think we can have second floors with wheelchair/ECV/etc. access. I know its fun to add that vertical dimension to the parks, and I am sure the guests who use mobility devices would agree. They just need to design these elevated areas with ramps/elevators/etc.

 

[JLW11Hi]

*cough*Skyway to Tomorrrowland*cough*20,000 Leagues Under the Sea*cough*

These attractions were created well before Disney and other places were taking the drastic initiatives they've been taking more recently to be accomidating to those with disabilities. Perhaps they in particular had to suffer the concequences, but the closing of these attractions should serve as a turning point to create attractions that are more accessable.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Because while they want you to think that 4000-7000 people who use segways as a mobility device are a significant number, the truth of the matter is that they represent such a minor number of the general public that specificly accomodating them is well beyond "reasonable."

US Population: 301,139,947
People who visit the MK in a year: 16,640,000

Number of folks on segways in the population? 0.00002%

Assuming an even mix.. that's only 332 people in an entire year who would use them showing up at the MK.

Even if every single person who uses a segway (using their high estimate) goes to WDW in a year, they would represent only 0.0004% of the MK's population.

Now we all know not every single person is going to go, but that all works out to the chances of a person on a segway as a mobility device being in MK on any given day is slim to none. The numbers dont even work out to 1 per day out of MK's ~45k guests.

Wheelchair users are about 1.5% of the population or about 4,517,099 people. In terms of the MK, that's 249,600 people per year. That's 683 per day at the MK.

Less then 1, or 683. Hmm.. which should we accomodate? Which is reasonable to accomodate?

Good math exercise Merf, but let me make it simpler for you....it only takes ONE One accident/incident/event that can now be prevented.
This is not a matter of users, it is a question of need.
And Segways are not needed to overcome a disability.

 

[mkt]

Good math exercise Merf, but let me make it simpler for you....it only takes ONE One accident/incident/event that can now be prevented.
This is not a matter of users, it is a question of need.
And Segways are not needed to overcome a disability.

With that logic, the TTA, Splash Mountain, and Mission Space should be removed as park attractions, ECV's and strollers banned, and for the clincher... cars in the parking lot.

An accident will eventually occur. It's not a matter of if it will occur, it's a matter of when. We are humans, we make mistakes. The Segway does not make the mistake, the human does. It's a matter of minimizing the risk through proper training and education, which in the case of a medical segway, should be mandatory. For a service animal, the owner has specialized training in the animals care and wellbeing, as well as to ensure that it is socialized properly and will pose no threat to humans. The same applies for many users of electric wheelchairs and almost all other mobility/convenience devices.

Why would a potential medical segway be any different?

 

[ClemsonTigger]

With that logic, the TTA, Splash Mountain, and Mission Space should be removed as park attractions, ECV's and strollers banned, and for the clincher... cars in the parking lot.

An accident will eventually occur. It's not a matter of if it will occur, it's a matter of when. We are humans, we make mistakes. The Segway does not make the mistake, the human does. It's a matter of minimizing the risk through proper training and education, which in the case of a medical segway, should be mandatory. For a service animal, the owner has specialized training in the animals care and wellbeing, as well as to ensure that it is socialized properly and will pose no threat to humans. The same applies for many users of electric wheelchairs and almost all other mobility/convenience devices.

Why would a medical segway be any different?

If there were such a thing as a medical Segway, which there isn't. Yes, if there was such a thing and there was a certification/license process it may be different, but there isn't one. The closest thing to a Medical Segway is this Dean Kaman offering, the iBot:

 

[mkt]

If there were such a thing as a medical Segway, which there isn't. Yes, if there was such a thing and there was a certification/license process it may be different, but there isn't one. The closest thing to a Medical Segway is this Dean Kaman offering, the iBot:

So until the Segway gains certification as such, is it a haphazard device in a theme park?

btw, I've corrected my previous post