Segways spark suit vs. Disney

[jmvd20]

I think that creating second floor access for convenience vehicles/wheelchairs is a challenge that should be rightfully taken on. Maybe not with the older structures that can't handle it, but at least with everything new. I think we can have second floors with wheelchair/ECV/etc. access. I know its fun to add that vertical dimension to the parks, and I am sure the guests who use mobility devices would agree. They just need to design these elevated areas with ramps/elevators/etc.

Creating second floor access for the disabled isn't something that "should" be taken on it is something that *must* be taken on for any new structure.

Any existing structure is exempt from being made ADA compliant unless alterations are made to said structure.

This is a gigantic double edged sword, and I have seen both sides of it. Most recently was a project that involved a coffee shop on the second floor of an old building. The first side is a small percentage of disabled people unable to enjoy said coffee shop as the only access is stairs. Other side of the story is that when the shop has a fire it cannot re-open unless it is ADA compliant. Owner does not have the 100K to add an elevator or 50K to add a ramp, therefore he takes the insurance money and closes the doors which = numerous patrons unhappy and servers out of work. Either way you look at this situation ADA compliance regulations leave people left out and possibly "suffering".

Another example is an entrepreneur who may want to revitalize an area of older buildings in the heart of downtown. Sure, she can pay the 800K to renovate the structure but the additional 200K for ADA compliance blows the budget, project is scrapped due to this.

One of the reasons second floors and elevated areas are disappearing is the extreme costs associated with making the areas accessible to everyone. As in everything there are two sides to the story, and unfortunately there is no perfect answer to any of it.

 

[Monty]

I am not going to reply because no mater what I say you will have some excuse why your more special then others, so you believe what you want and the rest of the world will see the big picture.

You really don't get it, do you?

I'm no more "special" than anyone [even you]. The point I'm trying to get through to you is that you [and everybody else including me] are not qualified to judge the needs of disabled people in general because there are no general needs of disabled people. Any given person can have any variety of individual or multiple disabilities and without genuinely assessing each person's needs in a fair and reasonable manner, there is no possible way to write the ADA in such a manner as to capture any reasonable accommodation scenario that might present itself. As a result, there will always be legal challenges to any law in order to establish jurisprudence which will allow the future application of the law to be and be perceived to be fair and reasonable. Thus, the current lawsuit is just part of the normal legal process and the courts will decide.

But you have 'decided' in your infinite wisdom that you know better than hundreds of years of legal processes that have been quite sound and have declared that this particular lawsuit is "a load"...

Get over yourself.

Oh, and just for your edification, I am a multilateral, multi-extent amputee and am probably the least likely to ever avail myself of the ADA of any disabled person you'll ever meet. I do not need accommodations from Disney because I choose to function without them. But at least the ADA is there for those who truly need its protection from people who know better...

 

[hokielutz]

I'm not convinced that these folks need a Segway to get around in Disney World. What they need is an alternate means for moving about the parks since they cannot walk.
Fortunately, Disney has provided this disabled access for year to most, if not all of its rides and the rest of the parks. You have the option of a wheel chair or a ECV... or whatever its called. There is no attempt to deny anyone access to the parks... but it is the means of how they get around that is in question. Disney is meeting the requirements of the disabled access laws that are on the books. And unless these folks can prove otherwise, I don't think this lawsuit has a chance.

that's my two cents.

 

[TomDisney]

Here's an interesting decision byt the Federal Transit Administration on allowing Segways on Transportation Vehicles.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/civilrights/ada/civil_rights_3893.html

 

[The Mom]

I'm not convinced that these folks need a Segway to get around in Disney World. What they need is an alternate means for moving about the parks since they cannot walk.
Fortunately, Disney has provided this disabled access for year to most, if not all of its rides and the rest of the parks. You have the option of a wheel chair or a ECV... or whatever its called. There is no attempt to deny anyone access to the parks... but it is the means of how they get around that is in question. Disney is meeting the requirements of the disabled access laws that are on the books. And unless these folks can prove otherwise, I don't think this lawsuit has a chance.

that's my two cents.

The bolding is mine. The existing laws exist ONLY because people filed lawsuits. The ADA is constantly being tweaked as new technologies and methods are used to allow those with THOUSANDS of different disabilities a chance to conduct their lives as close to that of a person without a disabilty as possible.

So, as mentioned, these lawsuits will continue, and we can expect changes. maybe not tomorrow, but certainly in the future.

I'm old enough to remember a time before ANY accomodation for people who were not 100% "normal." No special phones for the deaf, no service animals other than dogs for the blind, children were institutionalized for life, people were limited access to buildings if they weren't 100% able-bodied, and the list goes on.

Unless you have spent any time being disabled, you really have no idea of the barriers that still exist. My limited experiences at being "handicapped" were real eye-openers, including discovering that sitting in a wheelchair/ECV suddenly made me invisible, or mentally deficient. I'm not sure which I found more insulting.

Just remember that we are all just an accident/illness away from needing the ADA to protect us, or will eventually need it if we live long enough.

Karma...enough said.

 

[CBOMB]

The bolding is mine. The existing laws exist ONLY because people filed lawsuits. The ADA is constantly being tweaked as new technologies and methods are used to allow those with THOUSANDS of different disabilities a chance to conduct their lives as close to that of a person without a disabilty as possible.

So, as mentioned, these lawsuits will continue, and we can expect changes. maybe not tomorrow, but certainly in the future.

I'm old enough to remember a time before ANY accomodation for people who were not 100% "normal." No special phones for the deaf, no service animals other than dogs for the blind, children were institutionalized for life, people were limited access to buildings if they weren't 100% able-bodied, and the list goes on.

Unless you have spent any time being disabled, you really have no idea of the barriers that still exist. My limited experiences at being "handicapped" were real eye-openers, including discovering that sitting in a wheelchair/ECV suddenly made me invisible, or mentally deficient. I'm not sure which I found more insulting.

Just remember that we are all just an accident/illness away from needing the ADA to protect us, or will eventually need it if we live long enough.

Karma...enough said.

BRAVO!:sohappy:

 

[mousermerf]

LEt's sum up this thread:

"Blah blah blah, I know everything! Blah blah Reasonable blah! Disabled people, dignity, blah blah!"

That's pretty much the general back and forth.

Ok, what is reasonable? Do any of you have any idea what would be needed to make the parks Segway-accesible? Just think about that for a minute then come back with your ideas of reasonable.

Even folks who bring their own ECV's have to transfer to a standard wheelchair to board several attractions. Disney will not lose on the whole ridiculous "dignity" thing.

 

[mkt]

LEt's sum up this thread:

"Blah blah blah, I know everything! Blah blah Reasonable blah! Disabled people, dignity, blah blah!"

That's pretty much the general back and forth.

Ok, what is reasonable? Do any of you have any idea what would be needed to make the parks Segway-accesible? Just think about that for a minute then come back with your ideas of reasonable.

Even folks who bring their own ECV's have to transfer to a standard wheelchair to board several attractions. Disney will not lose on the whole ridiculous "dignity" thing.

As for the rest, the walkways in the parks are already Segway accesible, since a segway can go basically wherever a human can go. Sure, they won't be able to go up and down stairs, or enter certain attractions- but this isn't what is being asked.

 

[mousermerf]

Where will they park the Segways? They cannot go into the attractions, not even the wheelchair accesible ones. They cannot stand in the queues with them, they're not made for that.

 

[mousermerf]

Oo, lemme guess, they're suppose to shift back and forth slowly to stay in one place for the parade viewing area.

They'll stay on them too for the Finding Nemo musical, right?

How about the monorail? How does that work? Do they have to lower the lift for the buses to let people roll their segways on too?

 

[mousermerf]

I wonder how long they have to keep some building closed to raise the height of the doorways to be "segway-accessible" and allow access...

Suppose they'll be shooping in Mouse Gear from their segway? Buying quick service food and chomping on a turkey leg while driving around the segway?

Will every restaurant have to install high cocktail style tables to accomodate folks on their segways who want to dine? How do you ride a segway and hold a menu?

 

[mkt]

Oh shut up.

Where will they park the Segways? They cannot go into the attractions, not even the wheelchair accesible ones. They cannot stand in the queues with them, they're not made for that.

Have you consider a single functional aspect of your ridiculous assertion?

A segway was designed to be used on sidewalks and to fit inside elevators, but that's rather vague, so lets talk numbers.

A segway was designed to be as wide as the average human- 30 1/2 inches at the shoulder.

I am wider than this at the shoulders, about 36 inches, and I have had no problems fitting in the queus. Furthermore, you know full well what weights the attraction queues can handle- you and I have both seen the size of some guests. They can hold the extra 60-90 lbs of the segway.

 

[mkt]

Oo, lemme guess, they're suppose to shift back and forth slowly to stay in one place for the parade viewing area.

If it works for management, it works for the guests.

They'll stay on them too for the Finding Nemo musical, right?

No, that's just silly and unreasonable.

How about the monorail? How does that work?

Roll them on the ADA car.

Do they have to lower the lift for the buses to let people roll their segways on too?

Sure, but the point being brought across is access to the parks, not the busses. I'm certain there is some DOT restriction prohibiting usage of unrestrained wheeled devices in a moving bus.

 

[mousermerf]

You think it's weight?

It's the extra foot in the air you are.

And again, they have to get off the stupid segway to eat at the restaurants and go on the rides. They'll have to suffer the "indignity" of being in a WC for the rides anways. There is no attraction in the world that it going to allow someone to ride a segway through it.

They gonna ride it on the friendships and ferry boats?

 

[mkt]

I wonder how long they have to keep some building closed to raise the height of the doorways to be "segway-accessible" and allow access...

Not long, since most are already accessible. However, I wonder how selfish you can be while Disney tries to make its parks more accessible for a segment of guests? Actually, I wonder what if you were in a position where a Segway could improve your life due to a disablity- how would your view remain?

Suppose they'll be shooping in Mouse Gear from their segway? Buying quick service food and chomping on a turkey leg while driving around the segway?

absolutely! They should do what all of us do.

 

[joshwill]

most walkways can be also accessable for bicycles, rollerblades, skateboards etc. but are the safe for them?

its bad enough when ive had mu toes run over and shins bumped by wheelchairs and evs. i can just omages the accidents that would be caused by segways. gyro or no, those thing would be dangerous in the crowds you get at wdw.

 

[mkt]

You know, of all the Disney fan websites, this is the only one with a thread promoting this topic. Just you mkt.

Now that I am back from my night out in my tiny boring Caribbean island, I have time to search, and what have I found:

Intercot has a thread
Mouse Planet has one too
and another!
Heck, mousetimes has several... but they are all newsfeed articles, so I won't link to them.

The DIS has no thread, however I wouldn't be surprised if there have been 50 and all 50 have been deleted by their army of mods.

However, none of them are like the thread here, because you see Merf, on this board, the members have opinions, and they are willing to discuss them like mature adults, albeit more passionately than one would assume.

You're just fighting to fight, it's what you do.

Merf. If I were fighting just to fight, I would have barged into someones permit threads and tell them how I truly feel about them, and how much of a waste of time I think they are. However, I have class.

Good night. You don't warrant another minute of my time.

 

[DisneyGigi]

If it works for management, it works for the guests.



No, but now you're just being silly and unreasonable.



Roll them on the ADA car.



Sure, but the point being brought across is access to the parks, not the busses. I'm certain there is some DOT restriction prohibiting usage of unrestrained wheeled devices in a moving bus.

The only place that they are is EPCOT, and they don't view the parades or ride the rides. If you can stand and balance yourself while watching a parade why can you not stand and watch it the same way other people do.
Before I am flamed I have nothing against people using the motorized carts that need them. Why does it have to be something that goes so fast it can knock you over before you have time to know what hit you? Not to mention the people that use the carts that do not have a medical reason to do so. (example- a 20 something year old couple that can roll into a smoking section *the girl in 4" heels* then get up and walk to the ashtray, hop back on and scoot off.) If someone cannnot stand/walk it is different IMHO.

 

[joshwill]

Were Number 1!!!
Were Number 1!!!
Were Number 1!!!

 

[jmvd20]

LEt's sum up this thread:

Do any of you have any idea what would be needed to make the parks Segway-accesible? Just think about that for a minute then come back with your ideas of reasonable.

Indeed I do know what it would take to do so...

And the answer is not much...

You and anyone else can dispute that statement as much as you want to, anyone is free to think and believe whatever they want but I counter with a question.

Who here has designed and overseen construction of ADA compliant spaces? I hate to to be the one to break it to you but Segways take up less space and are much more maneuverable than standard ADA devices. There are more than a few published reports that found Segways and/or similar devices can eventually (key word is "eventually") revolutionize ADA accessibility issues requiring less space in areas such as bathrooms, entranceway's, elevators, etc...

How about you for once realize that you are not an expert on everything - even though you seem to think that you are...