Screamscape - Monorail Expansion Rumor

[s8film40]

Yes, but numbers aren't original, colors are...

@S8film40, if you were to leave them with no color or numbers at all, that serves to be a problem with not only Public Anouncements, but contacting Central as well.

Imagine it now... If Central were to try to contact a train, they couldn't because all 12-20 trains are now not labeled...

'Monorail to Central.
Central Bye.
I'm having a door alert.
Central copies, but which train are you?
Erm...'

As nice as they would look, I find it nicer that they are labeled by color, they look nicer that way. They could add Turqoise, which would be darker than blue, but you could tell, they could add brown, Lilac, navy, scarlet (which would have a delta), plenty of colors!! Numbers seem so boring, that and if you are on the PA system, colors seem nicer to say than numbers. To me colors seem nicer anyways...

In a modern monorail system there would be no drivers and no need for communicating. This is the way the Las Vegas system works, all trains/switches are computer controlled. A central control person monitors all monorails and can if needed drive any one of the trains manually remotely. This is far more efficient than relaying commands by radio.

 

[Patrick_Ears]

Maybe DHS could get a monorail in the future.....

 

[Gregoryp73]

I think that the update to the Disneyland monorail was done that nice flair. Gave a tribute to the old with modern touches. Something has to be done to the WDW monorails. I am not just talking balloons and confetti. A color shifting paint stripe would be a neat addition.

I think as the cost of flexible OLED comes down, we'll see full panels of animated sequences on the sides of buses and trains...They could at some point plaster a whole train in the stuff and change from tron to marvel in a single keystroke.

 

[nace888]

In a modern monorail system there would be no drivers and no need for communicating. This is the way the Las Vegas system works, all trains/switches are computer controlled. A central control person monitors all monorails and can if needed drive any one of the trains manually remotely. This is far more efficient than relaying commands by radio.

As nice as this sounds, I think the guests would much rather have a pilot... That and if front-nose riding were to be re-enforced, I'm sure guests would be jumping at the opportunity...

I can't see a WDW without a pilot. They've always had pilots, and if you were to make a fleet of 20 automatic after being piloted for so long, you'd cut close to 50-100 jobs in 'rails alone! That's like saying that the boats are now going to be automatic, with use of a track system... It just takes from the magic. I'd much rather hear
'Attention ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I want to thank you for riding monorail red on Walt Disney World's famous Highway in the Sky. We will be holding here for further traffic clearance, but while we're waiting, feel free to take some pictures of the beautiful ____________to your left/right, and once again, thank you for riding Monorail Red.'
or
'Attention ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I want to thank you for riding monorail red on Walt Disney World's famous Highway in the Sky. We are approaching Disney's Contemporary resort! Be sure to try __________ while you are here as well. If you are standing, please hold on to the hand rails until the train comes to a complete stop. Once again, thank you for riding Monorail Red, and have a nice day.'
instead of
The automated recorded voice. Even though it adds to the magic, I would get tired of hearing the recording the whole trip, y'know?

Personal opinion I suppose... Like I said before, ask the guests what they would prefer!

 

[bhg469]

I think as the cost of flexible OLED comes down, we'll see full panels of animated sequences on the sides of buses and trains...They could at some point plaster a whole train in the stuff and change from tron to marvel in a single keystroke.

If we are talking about Disney 25 years ago I would say that is absolutely what they have in store. We are talking about Disney now where they may have this technology after we have been living with it for 5 years.

I'll give you sorcerers of the magic kingdom for example. Nothing more than a kinect game with augmented reality tags. At has been in magazine adds for years.

I am a Disney world fan because of technology in the parks. I don't have any love for characters or castles but I appreciate that is what made Disney popular. I just wish I could walk into the park and be amazed by something new like Kim possible but instead they dumb it down, cheapen it up and serve it ice cold.

I'm such a curmudgeon today.

 

[orky8]

As nice as this sounds, I think the guests would much rather have a pilot... That and if front-nose riding were to be re-enforced, I'm sure guests would be jumping at the opportunity...

I can't see a WDW without a pilot. They've always had pilots, and if you were to make a fleet of 20 automatic after being piloted for so long, you'd cut close to 50-100 jobs in 'rails alone! That's like saying that the boats are now going to be automatic, with use of a track system... It just takes from the magic. I'd much rather hear
'Attention ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I want to thank you for riding monorail red on Walt Disney World's famous Highway in the Sky. We will be holding here for further traffic clearance, but while we're waiting, feel free to take some pictures of the beautiful ____________to your left/right, and once again, thank you for riding Monorail Red.'
or
'Attention ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I want to thank you for riding monorail red on Walt Disney World's famous Highway in the Sky. We are approaching Disney's Contemporary resort! Be sure to try __________ while you are here as well. If you are standing, please hold on to the hand rails until the train comes to a complete stop. Once again, thank you for riding Monorail Red, and have a nice day.'
instead of
The automated recorded voice. Even though it adds to the magic, I would get tired of hearing the recording the whole trip, y'know?

Personal opinion I suppose... Like I said before, ask the guests what they would prefer!

You really seem to get caught up on the wierdest details. Automating the system would be half the point of conducting an upgrade. Its not hard to have automated announcements, either. While I'd feel bad for the monorail pilots who lose their jobs, that cost savings is part of the reason to upgrade the system. Boats can't be driverless because they aren't on tracks. Trains can't be driverless because things can end up on their tracks. Monorails can and should be driverless because they are monorails. It just makes sense. I'd rather have a morail connecting all four parks then a driver so that when there is a delay (which should be reduced by automation), a live person can tell me we're not moving instead of an announcement.

Which colors? There should be so many monorails that colors would seem incredibly tiresome to keep track of. You're really missing the forest for the trees here. Of course they would still have numbers for identifying, but they don't need to be plastered on the side. You can even have colors, or multiple monorail reds. Who cares?!? This is your concern?

As for front riding, the new monorails could have an open front because there are no drivers! Open back too.

 

[Gregoryp73]

You really seem to get caught up on the wierdest details. Automating the system would be half the point of conducting an upgrade. Its not hard to have automated announcements, either. While I'd feel bad for the monorail pilots who lose their jobs, that cost savings is part of the reason to upgrade the system. Boats can't be driverless because they aren't on tracks. Trains can't be driverless because things can end up on their tracks. Monorails can and should be driverless because they are monorails. It just makes sense. I'd rather have a morail connecting all four parks then a driver so that when there is a delay (which should be reduced by automation), a live person can tell me we're not moving instead of an announcement.

Which colors? There should be so many monorails that colors would seem incredibly tiresome to keep track of. You're really missing the forest for the trees here. Of course they would still have numbers for identifying, but they don't need to be plastered on the side. You can even have colors, or multiple monorail reds. Who cares?!? This is your concern?

As for front riding, the new monorails could have an open front because there are no drivers! Open back too.

I think we'll soon see within a decade that absolutely anything can be driverless...We already have seen autonomous test cars that have logged 10,000's of miles with out a single driver, in traffic no less.

the question is...if drivers and pilots get replaced by GPS guidance...where will we hear "a 5th gate villians" theme park rumors from??:brick:

 

[orky8]

the question is...if drivers and pilots get replaced by GPS guidance...where will we hear "a 5th gate villians" theme park rumors from??:brick:

Oh, come on, in 10 years the 5th gate will already be constucted and connected by a monorail to the other 4. :ROFLOL:

 

[s8film40]

As nice as this sounds, I think the guests would much rather have a pilot... That and if front-nose riding were to be re-enforced, I'm sure guests would be jumping at the opportunity...

I can't see a WDW without a pilot. They've always had pilots, and if you were to make a fleet of 20 automatic after being piloted for so long, you'd cut close to 50-100 jobs in 'rails alone! That's like saying that the boats are now going to be automatic, with use of a track system... It just takes from the magic. I'd much rather hear
'Attention ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I want to thank you for riding monorail red on Walt Disney World's famous Highway in the Sky. We will be holding here for further traffic clearance, but while we're waiting, feel free to take some pictures of the beautiful ____________to your left/right, and once again, thank you for riding Monorail Red.'
or
'Attention ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I want to thank you for riding monorail red on Walt Disney World's famous Highway in the Sky. We are approaching Disney's Contemporary resort! Be sure to try __________ while you are here as well. If you are standing, please hold on to the hand rails until the train comes to a complete stop. Once again, thank you for riding Monorail Red, and have a nice day.'
instead of
The automated recorded voice. Even though it adds to the magic, I would get tired of hearing the recording the whole trip, y'know?

Personal opinion I suppose... Like I said before, ask the guests what they would prefer!

I agree with this sentiment completely, however there are a couple of factors that make me realize that this is an inevitable necessity. The first and most important is that continuing to have pilots at this point in time actually inhibits the monorails from being as efficient as they can be. A centralized control system can make more informed decisions than even the most knowledgable pilot because the system knows where every other train is and what the situation is throughout the entire system. The result of this is that trains can be spaced better, arrive to stations more quickly and reduce any on track waiting time to almost zero. If you get a chance to visit the Las Vegas system this will all become abundantly clear and you would realize just how behind the times the WDW system is.

I will agree I would miss the feel of real pilots. When I drove monorails I took great pride in delivering spiels just like you mentioned and made sure they sounded professional and clear. I still enjoy hearing those come over the PA as the chime goes off you hear background radio chatter and a professional sounding pilot inform you of the short traffic delay. The sad truth is though that Disney doesn't pay enough to attract and/or keep people who can pilot and speak with that level of professionalism unless they are just really dedicated to working in monorails. More and more the spiels sound worse and worse and the driving also has suffered over the years.

While I will miss piloted trains automation is necessary and is already being planned regardless of if the system ever gets expanded.

 

[nace888]

:brick:

 

[Tom]

When I lived on Hilton Head Island I saw caissons installed on many a project, it's standard and not a huge expense. It's all sand and muck on Hilton Head till you hit a certain depth what exact depth not sure but I can tell you it's a ways down.

Everything is relative though.

While foundations and auger cast piles are not astronomically expensive, how many buses can Disney buy with what it would cost to build a mile of monorail track?

Transportation offers no direct return-on-investment for Disney, other than to help keep guests on property. People (ok, most people) don't come to Disney World because of the monorail, but it's a cool and unique touch.

But with buses being far more affordable, and infinitely flexible, if they're going to throw money at more transportation, it makes no sense to spend it on expanding an archaic system. To make rail worth doing at WDW, they'd have to scrap what they have and start over with a versatile system.

 

[orky8]

Transportation offers no direct return-on-investment for Disney, other than to help keep guests on property. People (ok, most people) don't come to Disney World because of the monorail, but it's a cool and unique touch.

Most people don't come to Disney World because of any one thing. The analysis needs to be flipped. Obvioulsy expanding monorails won't be what gets people to come to Disney World, but no one thing does anyway. The question should be would expanded monorails get people to spend more time at the parks, park hop more, go to DTD, be more likely to stay on property, etc... While Disney can advertise their current bus/transportation network provides all this, I for one, don't go to DTD because of the busses (not worth it). I'm more likely to go back to the hotel instead of park hopping from AK or DHS because of the busses. The question is if it was, quick, easy, and cool to park hop and get to DTD would people do it?

The other issue of course, is the bus system is reaching capacity (or has already) and the roads are becoming very crowded. If you are going to drive, you might as well stay off site, or so some people will justify. And I'm driving and staying offsite, I might check out Potterland.

Finally, why are rooms at GF, Poly, and Contemporary so much more expensive than rooms elsewhere. Even much more that WL? The monorail has value beyond what busses offer.

As to tearing the whole system out, I believe I've seen you say that the concrete beams practically last forever except at the stations where oil drips on them. They just need to be reconfigured, but much of the existing beams can stay in place.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Transportation offers no direct return-on-investment for Disney, other than to help keep guests on property.

I happen to think it's a pretty good return considering they provide free transportation to/from the airport and all over property once you arrive. And, with competition from other entertainment options outside of WDW continuing to grow and improve, this will only become more of an issue.

But with buses being far more affordable, and infinitely flexible, if they're going to throw money at more transportation, it makes no sense to spend it on expanding an archaic system. To make rail worth doing at WDW, they'd have to scrap what they have and start over with a versatile system.

That's kind of a vague statement. There are lots of ways they could expand the current system or add to it using other options without scrapping it all and starting over. Consider how many different forms of transportation they already have with boats (multiple kinds and sizes), buses and trains. Besides that, the original plan for the "Florida Project" allowed for multiple means of transportation around the property, all co-existing.

 

[DVCOwner]

I think that if Disney does not expand it's mass transit (not including buses), that staying on property will soon loss it appeal. I usally stay a Boardwalk Villas and I love being able to walk to EPCOT and MGM, ride the boats when I want to relax some, but I hate riding the buses to anywhere. Now about light rail that looks like the New Orleans street cars running from some of the resorts on tracks to do away with some of the road traffic. Where bused need to run, how about double decker buses on roads set aside for thier travel. Disney make getting to the parks once again magical.

 

[nace888]

Everything is relative though.

While foundations and auger cast piles are not astronomically expensive, how many buses can Disney buy with what it would cost to build a mile of monorail track?

Transportation offers no direct return-on-investment for Disney, other than to help keep guests on property. People (ok, most people) don't come to Disney World because of the monorail, but it's a cool and unique touch.

But with buses being far more affordable, and infinitely flexible, if they're going to throw money at more transportation, it makes no sense to spend it on expanding an archaic system. To make rail worth doing at WDW, they'd have to scrap what they have and start over with a versatile system.

Why SCRAP it, when you can simply recycle and reuse something that still has another 50 years of use? I think the stations could be redone, to house a train on a siding at each station, but other than that, why trash something that's still useable?

Famous saying: If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

I think a few things here and there could be redone, but everything is still good enough to use!! I PERSONALLY think they should keep piloted trains, to me it seems more logical. I'd much rather have a cast member tell me what's going on, than to have an automated system that can't tell me what the problem is. It just seems pointless to get rid of the pilots.

That's like saying make the MKRR Automatic, Make the buses automatic, make the boats automatic (YES IT CAN BE DONE. They can be placed on a track, but it would take a bit longer to make, but yeah...

 

[Tom]

Most people don't come to Disney World because of any one thing. The analysis needs to be flipped. Obvioulsy expanding monorails won't be what gets people to come to Disney World, but no one thing does anyway. The question should be would expanded monorails get people to spend more time at the parks, park hop more, go to DTD, be more likely to stay on property, etc... While Disney can advertise their current bus/transportation network provides all this, I for one, don't go to DTD because of the busses (not worth it). I'm more likely to go back to the hotel instead of park hopping from AK or DHS because of the busses. The question is if it was, quick, easy, and cool to park hop and get to DTD would people do it?

The other issue of course, is the bus system is reaching capacity (or has already) and the roads are becoming very crowded. If you are going to drive, you might as well stay off site, or so some people will justify. And I'm driving and staying offsite, I might check out Potterland.

Finally, why are rooms at GF, Poly, and Contemporary so much more expensive than rooms elsewhere. Even much more that WL? The monorail has value beyond what busses offer.

As to tearing the whole system out, I believe I've seen you say that the concrete beams practically last forever except at the stations where oil drips on them. They just need to be reconfigured, but much of the existing beams can stay in place.

I agree with some of your points. Here's my follow-up.

I don't believe that anyone chooses NOT to go to WDW because of their transportation system. It's simply a perk that they offer - with some of the modes being fun and entertaining (like boats and monorails). If someone wanted to go to WDW so badly, and they hated the bus system, they'd rent a car or just gripe the whole time they're in line for a bus, like I do.

I absolutely don't go to DTD merely because of the lack of transportation. Plus, the trip to and from DTD is obscenely long on a bus. When I stay at Riverside, I'll take the pontoon just for a relaxing trip. Otherwise, I don't go. I DO understand why Disney won't send park buses to DTD, since people were filling up the DTD parking lot and busing to the parks.

The bus system is about to expand in a major way. I believe they're adding 16 of those new style (accordion) buses, and something like 70 total buses. I can't remember the exact numbers, but the info came from a reliable source. If that's true, you can pretty much write off monorail investments. It's clear they're moving forward with buses.

And when I said they'd have to tear out the current system, I meant if they went to an intelligent light rail. To have a rail system that's versatile enough to make it useful, it has to be able to take spur lines and switch onto different routes. The current system can't do that, because the concrete beam switches take a lifetime to changeover from one beam to another. To re-use and expand the existing system would require it to become an even larger hub-and-spoke layout, which is not efficient.

Besides, they wouldn't use the same trains or bus bar system for anything other than an expansion of what they have now.

 

[PhilharMagician]

When I lived on Hilton Head Island I saw caissons installed on many a project, it's standard and not a huge expense. It's all sand and muck on Hilton Head till you hit a certain depth what exact depth not sure but I can tell you it's a ways down.

cais·son [ káy sòn ]
1.underwater work chamber: a bottomless watertight chamber filled with compressed air, used as a base from which construction work is carried out underwater
2.float to raise ships: a hollow structure attached to a sunken object such as a wrecked ship, then pumped full of air until it acts as a float, raising the object to the surface
3.water block: a floating watertight structure used to keep water from entering a dry dock, canal lock, or basin

What would they do with caisson's with the monorail?

Why SCRAP it, when you can simply recycle and reuse something that still has another 50 years of use? I think the stations could be redone, to house a train on a siding at each station, but other than that, why trash something that's still useable?

Famous saying: If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

I think a few things here and there could be redone, but everything is still good enough to use!! I PERSONALLY think they should keep piloted trains, to me it seems more logical. I'd much rather have a cast member tell me what's going on, than to have an automated system that can't tell me what the problem is. It just seems pointless to get rid of the pilots.

That's like saying make the MKRR Automatic, Make the buses automatic, make the boats automatic (YES IT CAN BE DONE. They can be placed on a track, but it would take a bit longer to make, but yeah...

I would be surprised to see the monorail still operational in 50 years. It is already an obsolete system. With any luck the monorail will be gone in 20 years or less and WDW will have an efficient, versatile and flexible. Right now busses are the way to go, unfortunately they are not as cool as a Monorail.

As for making the monorail automatic, it is the only mode of transportation that you listed that can be automated. It is on a fixed track and is powed by electric which is controllable. The steam trains need constant attention or they go boom. Boats navigating in and out of docks and busses driving themselves, well that is not happening today.

 

[orky8]

That's like saying make the MKRR Automatic, Make the buses automatic, make the boats automatic (YES IT CAN BE DONE. They can be placed on a track, but it would take a bit longer to make, but yeah...

No, its not at all. The things you listed can't be automated safely because even if the boats were on a track, they could hit something, like other boats, or swimmers (Yes, I know you aren't supposed to swim in that water), or whatnot. Same with the train (assuming it was electric and not steam powered), there is too much risk that something or someone would stray onto the tracks. It's the same reasons it will be a long time (if ever) before cars/busses are automated. Staying between the lines is easy -- its avoiding obstacles that end up where they aren't supposed to be that is hard. The unique thing about the monorails is that nothing can end up on the tracks (like a kid) without going through an awful lot of trouble to get there.

 

[s8film40]

The reason for automating the monorails isn't to save money by reducing labor, it's to make the system more efficient. This DOES fit with the principles and ideas behind monorails at WDW. Walt Disney wanted to build monorails because they were a new innovative and efficient means of transportation. To say no to progress in the area of monorails is almost hypocritical.

As for scrapping the entire system, that really isn't necessary. A new completely modernized system can easily be built with the existing infrastructure. This in fact is how the Las Vegas monorail was expanded they took the existing WDW style beamway added to it and upgraded what was already there. This is a perfect example of WDW needs to do.

 

[DisneyWall-E]

No, its not at all. The things you listed can't be automated safely because even if the boats were on a track, they could hit something, like other boats, or swimmers (Yes, I know you aren't supposed to swim in that water), or whatnot. Same with the train (assuming it was electric and not steam powered), there is too much risk that something or someone would stray onto the tracks. It's the same reasons it will be a long time (if ever) before cars/busses are automated. Staying between the lines is easy -- its avoiding obstacles that end up where they aren't supposed to be that is hard. The unique thing about the monorails is that nothing can end up on the tracks (like a kid) without going through an awful lot of trouble to get there.

Didnt some body climb on the tracks at DL and get run over, or was that a made up story?