Screamscape - Monorail Expansion Rumor

[Gregoryp73]

... I was talking about the shells, the bodies, not the chassis. If Disney didn't have the molds, they wouldn't have been able to make the new cabs for Peach. The trains in Vegas, are the Bombardier Innovias, and they look NOTHING like the Mark VI Monorails. The Innovias use the same style chassis as the Mark VIs, but Bombardier have modified them if I am correct.

Alas, I know that the price would not be cut DIRECTLY in half, I was going with an opinionated guesstimate... However, I imagine that the final price would still possibly be cut because Disney ALREADY owns the land the lines would go on...

Everyone is talking about where they want the expansion to go, but what about where there are already pylon footers... Weren't there already pylon footers placed that haven't been used yet? I dunno if it's a rumor but I heard there were some laid somewhere...

I would imagine that finding suitable land to build on would be the pain...

 

[DVCOwner]

WDW world is going to have to do something. They can not just continue to add more and bigger buses. I am not saying Monorail is the only solution, may bus roads that provide more direct access to parks and resorts. If something is not done soon, gride lock will set in a peak times of the day.

 

[MichWolv]

WDW world is going to have to do something. They can not just continue to add more and bigger buses. I am not saying Monorail is the only solution, may bus roads that provide more direct access to parks and resorts. If something is not done soon, gride lock will set in a peak times of the day.

Gridlock is a problem on Buena Vista Drive mainly. They are rerouting things around DHS to ease it in the Epcot Resort Area. The other area it gets gridlocked is DTD. We have heard reports of some new transport solution at DTD. While I read that as intra-DTD, maybe not. If gridlock is the concern, we will see a BVD-focused solution.

 

[wdw71fan]

Gridlock is a problem on Buena Vista Drive mainly. They are rerouting things around DHS to ease it in the Epcot Resort Area. The other area it gets gridlocked is DTD. We have heard reports of some new transport solution at DTD. While I read that as intra-DTD, maybe not. If gridlock is the concern, we will see a BVD-focused solution.

DTD to BVD to World Drive to be exact.



One wheel, many spokes.

 

[s8film40]

... I was talking about the shells, the bodies, not the chassis. If Disney didn't have the molds, they wouldn't have been able to make the new cabs for Peach. The trains in Vegas, are the Bombardier Innovias, and they look NOTHING like the Mark VI Monorails. The Innovias use the same style chassis as the Mark VIs, but Bombardier have modified them if I am correct.

Alas, I know that the price would not be cut DIRECTLY in half, I was going with an opinionated guesstimate... However, I imagine that the final price would still possibly be cut because Disney ALREADY owns the land the lines would go on...

Everyone is talking about where they want the expansion to go, but what about where there are already pylon footers... Weren't there already pylon footers placed that haven't been used yet? I dunno if it's a rumor but I heard there were some laid somewhere...

The original bodies were built by a company called Advanced Technologies, I have never heard for certain who has the original molds. I would suspect Disney obtained them just for repair scenarios like this, however Advanced Technologies is located in Florida so if they still had them it would have been relatively easy to borrow them.

While I don't think this would have any significant effect on costs of expansion, I do think there is a way Disney could reduce there costs significantly if not entirely.

They could sell the entire monorail system and future right of ways for expansion to RCID. RCID could then expand and upgrade the system. It's perfectly reasonable for a government to provide transportation as a public service, and this could help reduce their costs for road upkeep and expansion. RCID could then contract Bombardier to build and operate the system and then pass some operation costs on to Disney by charging a flat usage fee for resort guests based on average ridership. Disney could license them to use the term WDW monorail system name and keep the appearance that it is a "Disney" monorail. While yes Disney would still be paying for this in the form of taxes this cost could be spread out over a long period of time making it much more manageable.

 

[MichWolv]

DTD to BVD to World Drive to be exact.



One wheel, many spokes.

Hmmm....I can see how it might all come together, if I get your drift. Big freakin' wheel though.

 

[nace888]

The original bodies were built by a company called Advanced Technologies, I have never heard for certain who has the original molds. I would suspect Disney obtained them just for repair scenarios like this, however Advanced Technologies is located in Florida so if they still had them it would have been relatively easy to borrow them.

While I don't think this would have any significant effect on costs of expansion, I do think there is a way Disney could reduce there costs significantly if not entirely.

They could sell the entire monorail system and future right of ways for expansion to RCID. RCID could then expand and upgrade the system. It's perfectly reasonable for a government to provide transportation as a public service, and this could help reduce their costs for road upkeep and expansion. RCID could then contract Bombardier to build and operate the system and then pass some operation costs on to Disney by charging a flat usage fee for resort guests based on average ridership. Disney could license them to use the term WDW monorail system name and keep the appearance that it is a "Disney" monorail. While yes Disney would still be paying for this in the form of taxes this cost could be spread out over a long period of time making it much more manageable.

I would imagine that Disney owns their own set of molds, those of which they used to rebuild the cabs for Peach. That and when Red had the tractor incident so long ago, they had to fix the nose... I would also imagine though, that if Disney were to consider purchasing a new fleet, they might not go with Bombardier this time... They will normally go with the lowest bidding company.

I do think though, that if they were to get a new fleet, they'd have to keep the lear-jet look... I read somewhere that they should use the color-shifting paint DL uses on their Monorails... Makes you wonder though, if the system were to expand, how many other colors would they have to use?

Not only that, but the locations of the line... I think if Disney were to charge a $2.00 fee for a ride, the system would pay itself off... $2.00 for a one time ride, $5.00 for an all day pass, it could work.

 

[Kamikaze]

I would imagine that Disney owns their own set of molds, those of which they used to rebuild the cabs for Peach. That and when Red had the tractor incident so long ago, they had to fix the nose... I would also imagine though, that if Disney were to consider purchasing a new fleet, they might not go with Bombardier this time... They will normally go with the lowest bidding company.

No, they would go with Bombardier.

I do think though, that if they were to get a new fleet, they'd have to keep the lear-jet look... I read somewhere that they should use the color-shifting paint DL uses on their Monorails... Makes you wonder though, if the system were to expand, how many other colors would they have to use?

Different colors are the least of their worries. And I think the color-shifting paint is a lot different than what you think.

Not only that, but the locations of the line... I think if Disney were to charge a $2.00 fee for a ride, the system would pay itself off... $2.00 for a one time ride, $5.00 for an all day pass, it could work.

Oh. My. Thats a whole new can of worms. They'd be better off just jacking room rates and ticket prices than to actually charge for transportation.

 

[s8film40]

I would imagine that Disney owns their own set of molds, those of which they used to rebuild the cabs for Peach. That and when Red had the tractor incident so long ago, they had to fix the nose... I would also imagine though, that if Disney were to consider purchasing a new fleet, they might not go with Bombardier this time... They will normally go with the lowest bidding company.

I do think though, that if they were to get a new fleet, they'd have to keep the lear-jet look... I read somewhere that they should use the color-shifting paint DL uses on their Monorails... Makes you wonder though, if the system were to expand, how many other colors would they have to use?

Not only that, but the locations of the line... I think if Disney were to charge a $2.00 fee for a ride, the system would pay itself off... $2.00 for a one time ride, $5.00 for an all day pass, it could work.

They wouldn't have used molds to repair Monorail Red. If you make a casting from a mold you have to make a casting of the whole piece. In the case of Monorail Red it was just a repair, as you can tell since they didn't get the shape exactly right.

As far as manufacturers Bombardier would be the likeliest if not only option. Bombardier owns all the patents for Disney's system and have since progressed the technology three generations beyond where it was when they bought it from Disney. Assuming Bombardier even allowed another company to use their technology they would likely charge huge licensing fees which would cause another company to charge more than Bombardier would in the first place. If another company decided to build an all new system for WDW's system specification, they would have to build in research and development costs as well as likely producing a far inferior and less tested result.

 

[s8film40]

Different colors are the least of their worries. And I think the color-shifting paint is a lot different than what you think.

My guess is with an expanded fleet they would probably go with an all white look and they would all be the exact same look and color.

 

[nace888]

My guess is with an expanded fleet they would probably go with an all white look and they would all be the exact same look and color.

Label them by numbers? Ugh...

As for the color-shifting paint, it's possible to do it if done right...

Everything involving the expansion gives a lot to think about. Colors wouldn't be a problem though, look in a box of 64 Crayolas. That, and Disney has their own color palate, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find 8 new colors... right?

I think it'd be kinda hard to update the style though... That's what would serve to be the problem. How to upgrade the trains, while keeping the iconic WDW Monorail look and size... That's where I think the color shifting paint would come in, but only for the color stripes... Use LED lighting inside the cars and cabs, it would work, as well as rearrange the seating...

As for Red's fix-up, now that you mention it, I got to looking, and yea, it's not exactly right, but close enough... So I see where you're coming from.

As for an earlier post, since Disney OWNS the land the expanded lines would go on, they won't have to worry about costs of land in the final price.

 

[Kamikaze]

Label them by numbers? Ugh...

There are only so many colors that it is easy to tell apart from a distance.

As for the color-shifting paint, it's possible to do it if done right...

The colors shift. Not change. Big difference.

Everything involving the expansion gives a lot to think about. Colors wouldn't be a problem though, look in a box of 64 Crayolas. That, and Disney has their own color palate, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find 8 new colors... right?

You can 'find' any color you want. If its two shades away from an existing color, whats the point?

I think it'd be kinda hard to update the style though... That's what would serve to be the problem. How to upgrade the trains, while keeping the iconic WDW Monorail look and size... That's where I think the color shifting paint would come in, but only for the color stripes... Use LED lighting inside the cars and cabs, it would work, as well as rearrange the seating...

Its more about the trains fitting on the existing system. They can restyle the body, but the size is going to be mostly the same.

As for Red's fix-up, now that you mention it, I got to looking, and yea, it's not exactly right, but close enough... So I see where you're coming from.

As for an earlier post, since Disney OWNS the land the expanded lines would go on, they won't have to worry about costs of land in the final price.

No one said anything about owning the land. The land, however, is all swamp. Meaning pylons have to be buried deep into bedrock, which is hugely expensive to do.

 

[BalooChicago]

A "Footer" is something which belongs at the bottom of a Microsoft Word document. (Yes, ok, footer may be a colloquial term in some regions, but it is not the correct term from a structural point of view). A footing is an element of a foundation system, but would not be used in monorail construction. Poor soil would not be much of an issue for monorail construction. The design and loads of such a system likely require the use of a deep foundation system such as drilled caissons (which were used for the LV monorail) and are not "hugely expensive" or uncommon, at least in comparison to the type of construction projects an entity such as Disney would take on. My current project (I'm an Architect) has more than 75 caissons to a depth of nearly 70'.

 

[Mouse Detective]

DTD to BVD to World Drive to be exact.

The traffic lights in the DTD area are green way too long for traffic exiting DTD and way too short for through traffic on BVD. This leads to way too much backed-up traffic. The exits roads don't have any traffic sensors on them so even when there is zero exiting traffic, the light still stays green for those roads. Meanwhile, traffic backs up on BVD.

 

[s8film40]

Label them by numbers? Ugh....

With an expanded fleet there would be no need as well as no practical way to visibly distinguish the trains from one another. So no colors no numbers. Yes they would lose some of the charm associated with the colors but it would have a more modern feel.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney has plenty of distinguishable names... no need to resort to plain numbers alone.

 

[invader]

Disney has plenty of distinguishable names... no need to resort to plain numbers alone.

The whole problem is that they try to keep one syllable for easy communication. Numbers seem to be the only easy way..

~ FD.

 

[Uncle Lupe]

I think that the update to the Disneyland monorail was done that nice flair. Gave a tribute to the old with modern touches. Something has to be done to the WDW monorails. I am not just talking balloons and confetti. A color shifting paint stripe would be a neat addition.

 

[nace888]

The whole problem is that they try to keep one syllable for easy communication. Numbers seem to be the only easy way..

~ FD.

Yes, but numbers aren't original, colors are...

@S8film40, if you were to leave them with no color or numbers at all, that serves to be a problem with not only Public Anouncements, but contacting Central as well.

Imagine it now... If Central were to try to contact a train, they couldn't because all 12-20 trains are now not labeled...

'Monorail to Central.
Central Bye.
I'm having a door alert.
Central copies, but which train are you?
Erm...'

As nice as they would look, I find it nicer that they are labeled by color, they look nicer that way. They could add Turqoise, which would be darker than blue, but you could tell, they could add brown, Lilac, navy, scarlet (which would have a delta), plenty of colors!! Numbers seem so boring, that and if you are on the PA system, colors seem nicer to say than numbers. To me colors seem nicer anyways...

 

[GenerationX]

We've established in this and many previous threads that it is too expensive to build additional monorails due to track costs. The ground is soft, below sea level, swampy, quicksandish, etc. Bigger buses, while practical, efficient, and awesome, are not magical. What if, however, those buses were built to carry many hundreds of passengers. And what if, those same buses also had monorail tracks mounted to the top with monorail cars riding on them ... adding even more capacity! Efficient and magical.