-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Screamscape - Monorail Expansion Rumor
- Thread starter katarn112
- Start date
Gregoryp73
Active Member
Here are some more accurate numbers:
Thanks for that! As Flynnibus pointed out, some of the info out there is "junk"...including a couple of the figures I was able to find. So good find!!
Even though this looks to be a forecast from 1999, it's looking like they were forecasting 58% of the traffic coming from buses, and 40% coming from monorail.
Monorail....157K daily is 57million rides
Buses...215K is 78 million rides
Again monorails probably get alot of double counts from transfers at the TTC, but that's still a whole lot of people.
The Economy has been lower or flat for disney since 2009 so I would assume today's numbers are probably pretty close to those (assuming they are accurate with their forecasts.)
It would be neat to see what the 2011 figures are.
unless.....this is a study from the communist monorail group trying to take over mass transit :lookaroun
s8film40
Well-Known Member
This is from the 2008 RCID comprehensive plan. I looked in the new one and they didn't seem to have the same chart. As you said though I would imagine it isn't that different, there would be practically no change to monorails and watercraft. I would imagine there would have been an increase in buses with new hotels added.
This really illustrates my point though. The fact that almost all of 40% of WDW's people moving capacity is wasted on a park & ride operation is a shame. If that could be refocused on park to park transportation exclusively it could reduce the strain on buses and make for a better overall transportation experience.
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
But isn't the bus ridership numbers so high only because the only way to get to most of the resort is car/bus?
Gregoryp73
Active Member
I think it's a valid arguement...
We'd have to see potential riders compared to actual riders. To me 40% of traffic being monorail traffic is a high proportion because of limited access points...yet there are quite a few people that park and ride rather than stay in the hotels.
I'm sure disney does daily reporting on all of this stuff.
emaginear
Member
Possibly would be able to pull from movie studios budgets for advertising dollars to help offset the cost. I highly doubt you would see a NICK or UNI ad on a WDW monorail.
Plus if built "green" they would qualify for possible tax incentives and own any patents WDI comes up with along the way.
Plus if built "green" they would qualify for possible tax incentives and own any patents WDI comes up with along the way.
orky8
Well-Known Member
And isn't that really the point. As '74 remenisced, monorails are just cool. They are iconic WDW and at the top of the Disney resorts website. Are they cost effective? Are they going to solve all of WDW's transportation issues? Are they going to eliminate busses? NO!
But building a lake in front of the Magic Kingdom surrounded by a monorail was never "cost effective" unless you understand that building a magical place that people want to come back to and spend their money is, in fact what makes WDW a cash cow in the first place. So, it actually is cost effective.
As a matter of principle, the four parks should be linked by monorail. It wasn't cost effective to link Epcot by monorail, but it was iconic and what Disney used to stand for.
Putting aside the magical reasons to build it, many here have also pointed out its not just rainbows and gumdrops, but also semi-practical. If the monorail goes to the Epcot resorts, you can charge more for those resorts, and reduce bus service there (which is already rather awful). If you update the monorail technology, you can eliminate the drivers and increase efficiency. If the monorail goes to all four resorts, WDW would be justified in increasing the costs of park hoppers, and park hoppers would be worth the incresed cost.
GrumpyFan
Well-Known Member
Crazy idea, and maybe it's been mentioned, but the thought occurred to me, they need to look at it from a few different angles (justifications).
1) Adding a property wide transit system would add value to the resorts, making it easier for guests to get around, relieve congestion on the roads, reduce wear and tear on roads, etc. It would also make staying on-property even more appealing.
2) Depending on where they expanded to, they could get part of a return on the investment by adding usage fees that either the riders would pay directly per ride, or the hotels would pay (riders indirectly). There are four distinct areas on property, where they could add a transportation service like the monorail (or some type of mass transit), and they could charge a fee for usage:
2a) Adding a transport option to the Flamingo Crossing area will also make this area more appealing and actually help kick-start interested hotels and restaurants. Of course, they could add fees at their other hotels too, but I would assume that guests staying in their hotels would get a free or at least a discounted pass.
3) The number of rooms in the direct vicinity including Disney Resorts, Downtown Disney, Bonnet Creek and Four Seasons will be more than 37,000 by the time Four Seasons is finished in 2014. It is assumed that even more rooms will be added by 2020. The number of guests visiting WDW grows an average of 2-3% each year, by 2020, the expected attendance will be more than 58 million!
4) Uncertain fuel prices make it difficult to plan and forecast operating costs.
1) Adding a property wide transit system would add value to the resorts, making it easier for guests to get around, relieve congestion on the roads, reduce wear and tear on roads, etc. It would also make staying on-property even more appealing.
2) Depending on where they expanded to, they could get part of a return on the investment by adding usage fees that either the riders would pay directly per ride, or the hotels would pay (riders indirectly). There are four distinct areas on property, where they could add a transportation service like the monorail (or some type of mass transit), and they could charge a fee for usage:
- Bonnet Creek - 4 hotels, 3000+ rooms
- Downtown Disney - 7 hotels, 3600+ rooms
- Four Seasons - 1 hotel, 444 rooms (opening 2014)
- Flamingo Crossing - unbuilt, several hotels, 2500+ rooms?
2a) Adding a transport option to the Flamingo Crossing area will also make this area more appealing and actually help kick-start interested hotels and restaurants. Of course, they could add fees at their other hotels too, but I would assume that guests staying in their hotels would get a free or at least a discounted pass.
3) The number of rooms in the direct vicinity including Disney Resorts, Downtown Disney, Bonnet Creek and Four Seasons will be more than 37,000 by the time Four Seasons is finished in 2014. It is assumed that even more rooms will be added by 2020. The number of guests visiting WDW grows an average of 2-3% each year, by 2020, the expected attendance will be more than 58 million!
4) Uncertain fuel prices make it difficult to plan and forecast operating costs.
ChrisFL
Premium Member
The train isn't the expensive part
kittybubbles
Active Member
They should start with (as a test) a zip line of some sort to move folks from DHS to EPCOT and one from AKL to AK....if those runs work out, let imagineering go crazy on a bunch of other lines...these would be attractions to enjoy while moving around the property and I imagine could be a rather inexpensive way to create another transportation mode to move people around the resort.
Lazy rivers. Disney already has a network of canals. They just need to extend them to theme parks and resorts.
DisneyWall-E
Well-Known Member
Easiest way to get around... personal hover craft. Can cross roads canals lakes and open fields. There problem solved.
Kamikaze
Well-Known Member
Why would having a mold cut the cost of the train fully in half?
Spoiler: It wouldn't.
Polydweller
Well-Known Member
Where did you get info about Disney having the moulds? That doesn't seem right. Bombardier produce the exact same monorail trains for the original Las Vegas line. I think Bombardier would have and own the moulds.
Tom
Beta Return
Step 1: Sign 47-page waiver
Step 2: Climb an 800 foot pole to the platform
Step 3: Begin >1-mile zip ride
Step 4: Evacuate bowels
Step 5: Profit
nace888
Well-Known Member
... I was talking about the shells, the bodies, not the chassis. If Disney didn't have the molds, they wouldn't have been able to make the new cabs for Peach. The trains in Vegas, are the Bombardier Innovias, and they look NOTHING like the Mark VI Monorails. The Innovias use the same style chassis as the Mark VIs, but Bombardier have modified them if I am correct.
Alas, I know that the price would not be cut DIRECTLY in half, I was going with an opinionated guesstimate... However, I imagine that the final price would still possibly be cut because Disney ALREADY owns the land the lines would go on...
Everyone is talking about where they want the expansion to go, but what about where there are already pylon footers... Weren't there already pylon footers placed that haven't been used yet? I dunno if it's a rumor but I heard there were some laid somewhere...
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
If there were footers installed it was a huge waste of money. No engineer is going to utilize abandoned foundations for a tolerance critical design.
