Say.... What if Avatarland got cancelled?

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
I sure do wish Disney would do some innovative things like repainting Back to the Future and calling it the Simpsons, repainting Dueling Dragons, and the ultra innovative Despicable Me 4d show lol

Honest question: Have you even been to Universal since the Harry Potter section opened?

What's more impressive is how much you know about Universal when it appears you completely despise it. Want me to send you the link to my Mickey's Magical Restrooms Blog? Spirit can you tell you, it's totally covered in pixie dust!
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
Turning into universal would be the biggest mistake possible...and one of the main reasons, I feel, that Avatar is getting scuttled at AK. You don't compete with the competition on their terms and strengths. You beat them on your terms and strengths.

Just out of curiosity, what would you say are Disney's current "terms and strengths"?
 

ctxak98

Well-Known Member
First, I am indifferent to Avatarland. If I could pick I would probably choose something different. If they just give it a ride then they could probably stick it in DHS leaving a major AK expansion for beasts or australia.

If they do it, lets just hope it gets a royal WDI treatment. On that note to those who say it can't be done or how would it work: the movie ends with a silver of notion that balance with nature is to be restored which is AK-esque. The "land" would be the compound which is now friendly and a safe-zone for humans (us the guests) the attraction(s) would have us out in pandora to "see the sights". All the amenities would be in the compound so it fits. They would just have to dress the sets to the 9's which obviously they are capable of.

Regarding the unknown sequels is that Cameron has stated he wants to go into Pandora's oceans. So do the math there. I think that overall the movies will continue with the dilemma of man's resource needs vs preserving nature.

Next regarding pixar (and I admit I am a pixar freak). Pixar is not overdone in disney. its their bread and butter for proper disney films that can relate back to the parks a la the lion king and little mermaid back in the day. Pixar films have made 3 BILLION dollars to date. They have not really had a flop although cars2 was a flop perhaps by pixar standards. The problem i see is they are toy story heavy if nothing else. The properties are so rich they are holding back too much on the diversity (but they have all the time in the world to do something so...).

but to say no more pixar? there is so much: toys, oceans, french rats, cars, bugs, superheroes, monsters, robots, and soon irish or scottish people. So you are saying ALL that stuff is off the table? you're not leaving much for disney to work with. Shoot, toys, robots, and monsters is how they make their money. :hammer:

To say don't turn into Uni, I think disney (like all the parks) have to consider risk of a new original property or idea vs. the brand appeal of an established name. in the case of an avatar, they have to pay cameron right? but pixar and their movies they dont ('cause they own them) do i have that right? We know Disney can kick butt with original stuff. Most all of Disney World was original right? POTC, HM, BTMRR, etc. But clearly kids and the public know characters from movies/shows so half of the marketing and the draw is already done for you. Avatar is the best selling movie of all time right now. HP is the best selling series. That contest isn't done yet (although with 7 films I don't see HP being dethroned anytime soon as their WW gross is at almost 8 billion). Disney missed the boat there but its spilled milk. best to come up with a 5-10-20 year plan to enhance and develop what you got and see if there is room to make some new alliances or acquisitions. WDW has room to grow and to do it well. The latter part is the human variable and the risk.

Lets also remember that Disney bought and outright owns a little niche property called Marvel. That is still an untapped well for the parks sans a few tshirts and such.

I didnt mean not making anything Pixar again. I just think that It shouldnt be disney next move. I see it in a epcot and dhs alot but don think anything fits with animal kingdom except Finding nemo and Bugs life....and they already used them. I think they should make an incredibles ride...they barely ever used that movie
 

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, what would you say are Disney's current "terms and strengths"?

I know where you're going with this. So i'll stop you by saying, Disney isn't currently playing to them, at all. But that doesn't mitigate the fact that trying to complete with Universal on their strengths is idiocy.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
I don't know what's sadder/funnier -- that Disney is no longer able to work with a creative personality like Cameron (this is what would've happened if Disney had gotten the rights to Potter) or that the E-ticket in Avatarland was so predictable that it was the first idea that came to mind for armchair Imagineers and snarks alike.

Really says something about Disney's inability to surprise WDW visitors in a good way. Whereas Potter's Forbidden Journey is an interesting evolution in theme park rides, Soarin' Over Avatarland just sounds so by-the-numbers and lazy.

(I mean, Soarin' 1.0 isn't that impressive to begin with...)

I said before, if DIsney was only going to make Avatar Soarin 2.0, it would have been an epic fail... Avatar was the chance for Disney to once again do something innovative with ride technology...Instead, chances are, they would have played it safe...

of course none of us know what Disney had planned, or was planning... But is 74 is right and Disney wants screens and Soarin 2.0, then the obvious conclusion is they were taking the safe way out...

I was one who defended Avatar in DAK, mainly because the theme of conservation fit... And in my opinion, it still does fit... I know others disagree, that is fine... My concern was the design of the land and the rides... If Pandora was themed brilliantly but we only got Soarin 2.0, I would have called it a failure... So, if this is all that was on the drawing board, and Disney refuses to work with Cameron on something innovative, then it is best the project get cancelled...
 

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
I'm going to hold out hope that they can get Lucas on board and significantly expand DHS into a Star Wars land of sorts. To me, that's the *one* thing that can complete with WWOHP. Everything else out there doesn't come close and would be a waste of money. Sadly, I think others are right here, in that the money that was going to be spent on this, will simply accrue interest instead.
.

Not going to happen as far as Star Wars. Any future expansion will be slow to occur. The problem is competition. When all is said and done, Universal has still done little to put a dent in Disney. John Lasseter is firmly focused on Disneyland in addition to Pixar. Without a Lasseter style person wanting to focus on WDW with the same level of pull and impact, things are going to be left in the control of corporate style drones. I find it a bit like TDO has been turned into Golgafrincham Ark Ship B and all of the non-creative types have been sent ahead to take care of WDW. There are still some good people at TDO but the lack of imagination above them acts like a temperature inversion keeping all the good ideas from escaping any higher. So unless Univerisal starts to eat into WDW in a significant manner, Disney's focus will be on Anaheim where there is competition.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
When all is said and done, Universal has still done little to put a dent in Disney.

Attendance wise, no. But it's foolish to think in those simple terms.

I believe I read someone posted here that Universal is beating Disney in per-guest spending, and giving them a run in off-site visitors as well as other financial areas.

Simply looking at attendance doesn't give the full picture.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Well, if stagnation is better than the alternative....then yes. I'm not interested in getting expansion for the sake of getting expansion. I want something good.

While Avatar wouldn't have been my first choice, I figured Cameron wouldn't let them cheap out on the expansion. So even if you didn't like Avatar, I figured the expansion (if it ever got built) would be "something good".

Sounds like the problem is (at least in part) Disney doesn't want to build "something good" when they can slap an expensive license on "something cheap" and call it a day.
 

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
Attendance wise, no. But it's foolish to think in those simple terms.

I believe I read someone posted here that Universal is beating Disney in per-guest spending, and giving them a run in off-site visitors as well as other financial areas.

Simply looking at attendance doesn't give the full picture.

Which is why you see the shift to catering to the higher end market. NextGen/X-pass/Golden Oak/Four Seasons. That is how Disney is answering those issues. Avatar's splash was a reaction to Harry Potter. Yet it is still not a big enough hit that TDO feels a fire to match it. They want, to use a Las Vegas parlance, the whales. Disney has decided to market to the whales and push high-end and high-profit. Universal still does not have the power to pull them in.

Yes, it is more complex than attendance but Disney still has a steady stream coming in and the discounts are starting to be reduced. As the discounts reduce, per-guest spending will rise. Economies of scale and WDW still dwarfs Universal in scale, so per-guest spending is not as important when you still kill on quantity. That is one of the reasons Avatarland will probably go under. If there is no pressure being felt, which is why it was announced as such a big deal in the first place, there is no pressure to expand.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
Well, if that's the case, that's a shame.

Hopefully whoever replaces Iger cleans house in Orlando Management.
 

AvengersWDW

Banned
Honest question: Have you even been to Universal since the Harry Potter section opened?

What's more impressive is how much you know about Universal when it appears you completely despise it. Want me to send you the link to my Mickey's Magical Restrooms Blog? Spirit can you tell you, it's totally covered in pixie dust!

Yes i have been to Universal and i actually love the Potter Section besides the cramped feel.

Are you one of those people who cant stand it when someone bad mouths Universal but likes Disney?
 

Martian Crab

New Member
I'd be happy if AK simply replaced Avatard land with a couple of Busch Gardens style roller coasters. At least that is something I'd enjoy.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Still pretty low to wish people would lose their jobs because YOU dont like what they are doing

A great chunk of TDO from upper middle up need a rocket up their.....

If this is the only way to do it then all the better for the resort as a whole in the future.

Suits have lost their jobs due to direct incompetence. Suits who deserved it. Sadly not enough have been kicked / quietly slid sideways.

Yet.
 

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
Not going to happen as far as Star Wars. Any future expansion will be slow to occur. The problem is competition. When all is said and done, Universal has still done little to put a dent in Disney. John Lasseter is firmly focused on Disneyland in addition to Pixar. Without a Lasseter style person wanting to focus on WDW with the same level of pull and impact, things are going to be left in the control of corporate style drones. I find it a bit like TDO has been turned into Golgafrincham Ark Ship B and all of the non-creative types have been sent ahead to take care of WDW. There are still some good people at TDO but the lack of imagination above them acts like a temperature inversion keeping all the good ideas from escaping any higher. So unless Univerisal starts to eat into WDW in a significant manner, Disney's focus will be on Anaheim where there is competition.


I agree with you...my comment was such that it's the one "franchise" that can answer to WWOHP. I find it amazing that losing an entire family to uni for a day hasn't resulted in a loss of revenues that concerns TDO. Perhaps when uni brings the phase ii of WWOHP online and guests are no longer leaving wdw for a day, but splitting their vacation with uni...and there's a 2-4 avg vacation drop off....that'll do it. Sad that these people don't see the enemy at the gates.....

I strongly suspect that the capital that was reserved for avatar-land is already being split between more nextgen idiocy and content initiatives outside of DP.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
Still pretty low to wish people would lose their jobs because YOU dont like what they are doing

Happens all the time. People don't like the way a sports team is performing and call for the firing of a coach. This is no different. Just that my sports team is WDW and the coach is Management.
 

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