Say.... What if Avatarland got cancelled?

[lebeau]

They need to fix what they already have before any more expansion.

Agreed. But it seems even less likely to happen than Avland.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I've been out of the loop a bit but I have seen a hint or two that seems to support this today. Trial balloons seem to be going down faster than logs on Splash Mountain. I wouldn't expect anything to magically show up to replace it anytime soon if the plug gets pulled. Burnt a lot of resources in trying to get it off the ground and it will take a while to reset and redirect.

There are a number of property-wide projects that could easily be green-lit and construction could commence within a year--it's just a matter of green-lighting them.

 

[devoy1701]

OK, checked with a Spirited source this morning and Avatarland isn't dead ... yet. It seems to be a matter of when, not if.

Disney and Cameron have a distinct difference of opinion over how this should be done and, more importantly, how much it should cost. And because of the strange new world the movie showcases, turning this into a theme park world that isn't all screens (something Cameron put his foot down early as WDI did want a second generation Soarin where you flew on one of those dragon-creatures over and through and around Pandora as the highlight E-Ticket experience of the land) has proven very problematic.

Disney is also aware the general public (not simply crazy Disney fans who post on sites like this) gave a collective yawn to the announcement AND the two new films are behind schedule by quite a bit and knowing the perfectionist that Cameron is may be delayed by quite a while, giving Disney nothing in the pop culture of the times to play off of when the imaginary land opens.

I was told if they take this off life support to not expect any announcement 'if they can help it' ... that it will quietly be taken off the slate of working projects and hopefully no one will ask any questions.

So, I guess you can say it isn't dead ... but it's like a dying hanging upside down tree that no one is nurturing at this point ... and that fanbois want to see cut down so they can get a better view of Wishes and a fiberglass castle!

~Too much snark there?~

Thanks for checking in. What I always found interesting was that it was announced without any supporting artwork/plans/renderings. Has that ever been done in the past for such a massive project? Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

 

[FigmentJedi]

OK, checked with a Spirited source this morning and Avatarland isn't dead ... yet. It seems to be a matter of when, not if.

Disney and Cameron have a distinct difference of opinion over how this should be done and, more importantly, how much it should cost. And because of the strange new world the movie showcases, turning this into a theme park world that isn't all screens (something Cameron put his foot down early as WDI did want a second generation Soarin where you flew on one of those dragon-creatures over and through and around Pandora as the highlight E-Ticket experience of the land) has proven very problematic.

Disney is also aware the general public (not simply crazy Disney fans who post on sites like this) gave a collective yawn to the announcement AND the two new films are behind schedule by quite a bit and knowing the perfectionist that Cameron is may be delayed by quite a while, giving Disney nothing in the pop culture of the times to play off of when the imaginary land opens.

I was told if they take this off life support to not expect any announcement 'if they can help it' ... that it will quietly be taken off the slate of working projects and hopefully no one will ask any questions.

So, I guess you can say it isn't dead ... but it's like a dying hanging upside down tree that no one is nurturing at this point ... and that fanbois want to see cut down so they can get a better view of Wishes and a fiberglass castle!

~Too much snark there?~

I knew that James Cameron's Ego would be the downfall of the project! Now let's wait and see if it dies entirely.

 

[Sassagoula-Rvr]

They won't.

If AvatarLand isn't built, that money is staying in the bank. And you won't get anything the least bit meaningful for at least the next decade.

But you will get to keep the empty plots you guys have been crying about losing because of avatarland. Have fun with that.

Exactly what I was thinking!!

 

[MissMorrow]

I think it’s about time Disney fixes whatever the problem is with Lucas, take the summer to outline everything, and have an announcement coincide with Celebration VI. Or at least use those funds to fix existing problems.

I’m sure it’s not as simple as that, but maybe it should be.

 

[sittle]

That's just what Disney World needs. More Toy Story and Pixar rides.

Does DisneyWorld really need Avatar or an Avatar based attraction...?

Pixar is a quality company, forward thinking and leading the pack when it comes to story telling, creativity and feature film. Their worst outing to date has been Cars 2, and even at that it still makes the competition look flat.

Avatar was a once off film, not originally intended for sequels, which are now being tentatively planned... IF Cameron comes out from his Seabase to put in the same kind of effort used in the first one, you might have a worthwhile endeavor.

Disney already essentially owns Pixar and their films and can fast track their development into quality theme park attractions, no/minimal licensing fees... For Avatarland, they have to get into bed with Cameron and Fox, essentially spending more money on licensing just to start building an Avatarland.

In a word : Yes... DisneyWorld needs more Toy Story and Pixar rides. It's more cost efficient and is right in the wheel house of the target demographic.

So, I guess you can say it isn't dead ... but it's like a dying hanging upside down tree that no one is nurturing at this point ... and that fanbois want to see cut down so they can get a better view of Wishes and a fiberglass castle!

~Too much snark there?~

There is so much more to WDW than fiberglass castles and fireworks, and I wouldn't trade it for Avatarland in a million years.

 

[misterID]

There are a number of property-wide projects that could easily be green-lit and construction could commence within a year--it's just a matter of green-lighting them.

What has TDO done to make you think anything will easily be greenlit?

If AvatarLand is going to die, which I'm really starting to believe, I don't see anything being easily constructed anytime soon.

They've had plans for a new Imgination for YEARS. Also plans for AK with a BK/MI hybrid land that all could have been easliy greenlit.

It wasn't.

Just like how wonderful that Space Mountain refurb was... Yeah, I have a lot of confidence in future projects for WDW if this gets cancelled

 

[devoy1701]

What has TDO done to make you think anything will easily be greenlit?

If AvatarLand is going to die, which I'm really starting to believe, I don't see anything being easily constructed anytime soon.

They've had plans for a new Imgination for YEARS. Also plans for AK with a BK/MI hybrid land that all could have been easliy greenlit.

It wasn't.

Just like how wonderful that Space Mountain refurb was... Yeah, I have a lot of confidence in future projects for WDW if this gets cancelled

How many times was the Monsters Inc Coaster on-again-off-again? :brick:

 

[WDW1974]

Unfortunetly (or fortunetly depending on your point of view), Universal has exclusive rights to it east of the Mississippi so Disney can't do much with Marvel at WDW.

Dan

Fortunately ... yeah, definitely ...

~Nice wheels dude, are they new?~

 

[WDW1974]

Yes...while Disney is touting their amazing new mural for Be Our Guest Restaurant and their exciting Dumbo spin land, Universal is creating an ultra immersive experience with a Hogwart's Express train all decked out to look incredibly realistic on the outside and also to include luxuriously appointed cabins on the inside complete with realistic lighting, sounds and special effects for riders to experience as they travel to Diagon Alley that will include an amzing E-ticket ride that will exceed most expectations. Hmmm do you think Disney should step up their game a bit?

Um ... is this a trick question?:ROFLOL:

I really (for an insider and all) have absolutely no insight whatsoever into the type of minds (business, creative and financial) that sees the competition putting forth a vastly better, bar raising experience and opts to use marketing smoke and mirrors and the absolute very least they are capable of to 'compete' and get customers.

It's crazy.

But I've been to WDW one time in last nine months when there was a time I was up there almost monthly ... so yeah, they're doing lots right.

~I'm not letting you drive, Lee!~

 

[misterID]

How many times was the Monsters Inc Coaster on-again-off-again? :brick:

Exactly.

And look at the Seven Dwarves Mine Train Ride. It took Staggs to get involved to get that little coaster added to the FLE. That... That little coaster is what they had to fight over to get built.

If they can't even build the Monsters INC coaster, where it was an off the shelf track and relatively small project, what do people actually think is going to get built?

:shrug:

 

[RSoxNo1]

Maybe that tour of the Haunted Mansion Queue changed Cameron's mind.

You don't stop do you? :brick:

Yes...while Disney is touting their amazing new mural for Be Our Guest Restaurant and their exciting Dumbo spin land, Universal is creating an ultra immersive experience with a Hogwart's Express train all decked out to look incredibly realistic on the outside and also to include luxuriously appointed cabins on the inside complete with realistic lighting, sounds and special effects for riders to experience as they travel to Diagon Alley that will include an amzing E-ticket ride that will exceed most expectations. Hmmm do you think Disney should step up their game a bit?

Do you think part of the problem is the fan boys complaining whenever an older attraction is updated or replaced? Universal doesn't have that type of backlash when something like Jaws gets removed.

OK, checked with a Spirited source this morning and Avatarland isn't dead ... yet. It seems to be a matter of when, not if.

Disney and Cameron have a distinct difference of opinion over how this should be done and, more importantly, how much it should cost. And because of the strange new world the movie showcases, turning this into a theme park world that isn't all screens (something Cameron put his foot down early as WDI did want a second generation Soarin where you flew on one of those dragon-creatures over and through and around Pandora as the highlight E-Ticket experience of the land) has proven very problematic.

Disney is also aware the general public (not simply crazy Disney fans who post on sites like this) gave a collective yawn to the announcement AND the two new films are behind schedule by quite a bit and knowing the perfectionist that Cameron is may be delayed by quite a while, giving Disney nothing in the pop culture of the times to play off of when the imaginary land opens.

I was told if they take this off life support to not expect any announcement 'if they can help it' ... that it will quietly be taken off the slate of working projects and hopefully no one will ask any questions.

So, I guess you can say it isn't dead ... but it's like a dying hanging upside down tree that no one is nurturing at this point ... and that fanbois want to see cut down so they can get a better view of Wishes and a fiberglass castle!

~Too much snark there?~

This is what I feared - Avatar isn't the slam dunk wow choice that Disney expeceted and us fan boys wanted for DAK. However, if it's this or nothing that's incredibly frustrating.

They need to fix what they already have before any more expansion.

There are plenty of things to fix, especially in DHS and Epcot before an expansion is needed in those parks. However Animal Kingdom is a different "beast" so to say. Capacity wise I don't think they can "fix" Dinorama or fix the Yeti without expansion. It's long over due, and if Avatar is going to be cancelled, an expansion could be further than 5 years away.

Say Avatar is cancelled, I think best case scenario for the Animal Kingdom in the next 5 years is a Panda exhibit. While it would be exciting for some (myself included), it's still not a ride (or rides) that the park so desperately needs.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Yes...while Disney is touting their amazing new mural for Be Our Guest Restaurant and their exciting Dumbo spin land, Universal is creating an ultra immersive experience with a Hogwart's Express train all decked out to look incredibly realistic on the outside and also to include luxuriously appointed cabins on the inside complete with realistic lighting, sounds and special effects for riders to experience as they travel to Diagon Alley that will include an amzing E-ticket ride that will exceed most expectations. Hmmm do you think Disney should step up their game a bit?

I sure do wish Disney would do some innovative things like repainting Back to the Future and calling it the Simpsons, repainting Dueling Dragons, and the ultra innovative Despicable Me 4d show lol

 

[RSoxNo1]

I sure do wish Disney would do some innovative things like repainting Back to the Future and calling it the Simpsons, repainting Dueling Dragons, and the ultra innovative Despicable Me 4d show lol

You mean like repainting Star Tours and calling it Star Tours: The Adventures Continue?

 

[WDW1974]

Good grief.

If James Cameron presents James Cameron's World of Avatar by James Cameron does not actually come to fruition, it will be yet another example of Disney proving it is run by imbeciles.

Not entirely ... but mostly.

A company that makes big announcement after big announcement and doesn't follow through on them (wholesale post-announcement changes to FLE, Hyperion Wharf, Avatar) is a company that doesn't know what it wants to be. Or simply a company that's running a business it doesn't really want to be involved in any longer.

They look foolish, totally and utterly. They're like the guy you knew in college (or maybe still) do who is always telling you how much lovin' he's getting when in reality he's always alone with his plush (that reference only applies to fanbois!)

I don't think Disney does know what it wants to be or will be when it comes to WDW. This isn't like the OLC and regular five-year plans for development. They truly look at the short term and the next marketing gimmick because all they want to develop would be hotels, timeshares and mini-mansions. It is frustrating to watch them ruin 25 years of being an amazing world class resort.

Successful businesses are wholly focused on their products and core competencies. Disney, as a whole, is focused on its media products; Parks and Resorts are largely a hobby business to the main power brokers, and possibly one they would rather divest themselves of. In the meantime, those in charge are happy to invest the bare minimum in the theme parks, leverage generational nostaliga while they still can, and fatten the balance sheet with their time share business.

That this is so readily apparent to someone who is hardly paying attention, namely me, is really quite damning.

I enjoy the parks for what they are, and fall into Disney's greedy hands by indulging in my own nostagia laden trips every few (sometimes 10) years, but P&R would clearly be better served if spun off entirely or sold to investors who actually saw the P&R themselves as the core business and not everything but.

I think more people (fans and just casual visitors) every day, but so long as they can trot out decent quarterly earnings, it doesn't matter. We've been in this cycle of decline since the mid-90s now.

 

[TalkingHead]

Disney and Cameron have a distinct difference of opinion over how this should be done and, more importantly, how much it should cost. And because of the strange new world the movie showcases, turning this into a theme park world that isn't all screens (something Cameron put his foot down early as WDI did want a second generation Soarin where you flew on one of those dragon-creatures over and through and around Pandora as the highlight E-Ticket experience of the land) has proven very problematic.

I don't know what's sadder/funnier -- that Disney is no longer able to work with a creative personality like Cameron (this is what would've happened if Disney had gotten the rights to Potter) or that the E-ticket in Avatarland was so predictable that it was the first idea that came to mind for armchair Imagineers and snarks alike.

Really says something about Disney's inability to surprise WDW visitors in a good way. Whereas Potter's Forbidden Journey is an interesting evolution in theme park rides, Soarin' Over Avatarland just sounds so by-the-numbers and lazy.

(I mean, Soarin' 1.0 isn't that impressive to begin with...)

 

[devoy1701]

I don't know what's sadder/funnier -- that Disney is no longer able to work with a creative personality like Cameron (this is what would've happened if Disney had gotten the rights to Potter) or that the E-ticket in Avatarland was so predictable that it was the first idea that came to mind for armchair Imagineers and snarks alike.

Really says something about Disney's inability to surprise WDW visitors in a good way. Whereas Potter's Forbidden Journey is an interesting evolution in theme park rides, Soarin' Over Avatarland just sounds so by-the-numbers and lazy.

(I mean, Soarin' 1.0 isn't that impressive to begin with...)

Disney hasn't been able to work with creative personality since the early 90s!

 

[PirateFrank]

Universal's been kicking TDO's *** for the last couple years, so I think them "turning into Universal" would be the best possible scenario at this point.

Absolutely dreadful idea.

Turning into universal would be the biggest mistake possible...and one of the main reasons, I feel, that Avatar is getting scuttled at AK. You don't compete with the competition on their terms and strengths. You beat them on your terms and strengths.

This is what I feared - Avatar isn't the slam dunk wow choice that Disney expeceted and us fan boys wanted for DAK. However, if it's this or nothing that's incredibly frustrating.

I have to say. I'd happily take nothing over something so, er, um....Un-Disney.

I've said this in the other thread. There was something very 'off' with this idea...and It wasn't going to sit well with me. I was trying to be optimistic (failing miserably) but in the end, I simply didn't think they could pull it off. The characters and mythology of Avatar don't result in kids grabbing twigs and yelling "Expeliarmus!" or having light saber duels on their bedposts.


I'm going to hold out hope that they can get Lucas on board and significantly expand DHS into a Star Wars land of sorts. To me, that's the *one* thing that can complete with WWOHP. Everything else out there doesn't come close and would be a waste of money. Sadly, I think others are right here, in that the money that was going to be spent on this, will simply accrue interest instead.

However, If Avatar in fact dies...it'll be the smartest decision regarding this project from the get go.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Do you think part of the problem is the fan boys complaining whenever an older attraction is updated or replaced? Universal doesn't have that type of backlash when something like Jaws gets removed.

Actually, there was plenty of backlash about Jaws being closed... There was not one positive comment about the closing of Jaws... In fact, people were bashing more Potter only because it is taking the Jaws place...

The difference is, there are more Disney fan sites than Universal fan sites so the outrage seems more exaggerated...