Say.... What if Avatarland got cancelled?

[AvengersWDW]

Happens all the time. People don't like the way a sports team is performing and call for the firing of a coach. This is no different. Just that my sports team is WDW and the coach is Management.

I on the other wish if they are not doing the job i expect them to get someone in who will motivate them. Just like i would not like to be fired with no warning i dont think anyone should. The sports example is a little different since there is a tangible performance measure...at WDW not so much

 

[devoy1701]

I on the other wish if they are not doing the job i expect them to get someone in who will motivate them. Just like i would not like to be fired with no warning i dont think anyone should. The sports example is a little different since there is a tangible performance measure...at WDW not so much

a) in some states (such as FL) you do not need a warning before getting fired. You don't even need a reason.

b) sliding numbers such as per guest spending, increased complaints, lower guest satisfaction, numerous stalled/cancelled projects are all very obvious and visibile signs of poor performance...which is means for expulsion...even though means are not necessary.

c) you don't always have the luxury of time necessary to try to curb poor performance. Usually when it becomes apparent it is already too late to effect change.

 

[Rasvar]

If Avatar does fall by the wayside, there will be some "shuffling" done. I'm just not sure where it will happen and if it will be directed at the right people. You can be assured that a significant amount of man hours will have to be jettisoned as a non-productive write off and the Disney Archive will get a new collection for its vault. You could build a whole other WDW with what sits in the jettison vault (not sure how good the place would have been).

I just spent a good six days in the park. The general visiting public is happy. I heard the normal complaints about lines too long and the food costs too much but those are the same complaints that have been heard for years. Until the public votes with its wallet and says enough is enough and stops spending, I am not sure you are going to see a huge pressure for change in Orlando. Disneyland has to work harder. I keep hoping Universal does keep getting better. I hope they can build more hotels and more attractions. TDO is a bit happy fat and lazy at the moment because they can be. I am pulling for Universal to shoot the works. It may be the only things that shakes things up a few miles down the road.

 

[Captain Chaos]

While Avatar wouldn't have been my first choice, I figured Cameron wouldn't let them cheap out on the expansion. So even if you didn't like Avatar, I figured the expansion (if it ever got built) would be "something good".

Sounds like the problem is (at least in part) Disney doesn't want to build "something good" when they can slap an expensive license on "something cheap" and call it a day.

Which is more than likely what they would do... And I am sure one of the reasons Rowling took Potter to Universal where they are setting the bar higher and higher... Good move on her part...

And I do not fault Cameron one bit for wanting only the best for his property whether people like the movie or not... If this falls through blame lies with Disney, not Cameron (despite people not wanting to hold Disney responsible for anything)...

 

[Skipper Dan]

Yes...while Disney is touting their amazing new mural for Be Our Guest Restaurant and their exciting Dumbo spin land, Universal is creating an ultra immersive experience with a Hogwart's Express train all decked out to look incredibly realistic on the outside and also to include luxuriously appointed cabins on the inside complete with realistic lighting, sounds and special effects for riders to experience as they travel to Diagon Alley that will include an amzing E-ticket ride that will exceed most expectations. Hmmm do you think Disney should step up their game a bit?

Post of the year. :sohappy:

 

[AvengersWDW]

a) in some states (such as FL) you do not need a warning before getting fired. You don't even need a reason.

b) sliding numbers such as per guest spending, increased complaints, lower guest satisfaction, numerous stalled/cancelled projects are all very obvious and visibile signs of poor performance...which is means for expulsion...even though means are not necessary.

c) you don't always have the luxury of time necessary to try to curb poor performance. Usually when it becomes apparent it is already too late to effect change.

A) True
B) I would like some evidence to support some of those claims. Increased complaints? Lol, evidence please....Lower guest satisfaction? Lol such lies...nothing you said is true. Bigger profits, better attendence proves otherwise. Maybe in DG land everything is bad but not in the real world.
C)Poor performance according to YOU...NOT EVERYONE...when will people learn that, it is not a hard concept

 

[RSoxNo1]

Actually, there was plenty of backlash about Jaws being closed... There was not one positive comment about the closing of Jaws... In fact, people were bashing more Potter only because it is taking the Jaws place...

The difference is, there are more Disney fan sites than Universal fan sites so the outrage seems more exaggerated...

Was the backlash for Jaws greater or less than the backlash for Mr. Toad being removed? Can anyone realistically say that Mr. Toad was a better attraction than Jaws? That's more of my point - Universal has replaced classic attractions with improvements. I can't think of enhancements or replacements that they have made that have been lateral moves or worse.

Back to Avatarland - if it doesn't happen then long term it could be a positive for Animal Kingdom. However, without knowing the replacement project it's really hard to say.

 

[devoy1701]

A) True
B) I would like some evidence to support some of those claims. Increased complaints? Lol, evidence please....Lower guest satisfaction? Lol such lies...nothing you said is true. Bigger profits, better attendence proves otherwise. Maybe in DG land everything is bad but not in the real world.
C)Poor performance according to YOU...NOT EVERYONE...when will people learn that, it is not a hard concept

The annual report from 2011 had the exact wording explaining that per guest spending and hotel capacities were down...it even had the breakdown in numbers. Profits are only up because of increase ticket, room, and food prices.

Fact. Look it up.

And my Point C was a business generalization.

What is DG land anyway?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Was the backlash for Jaws greater or less than the backlash for Mr. Toad being removed? Can anyone realistically say that Mr. Toad was a better attraction than Jaws? That's more of my point - Universal has replaced classic attractions with improvements. I can't think of enhancements or replacements that they have made that have been lateral moves or worse.

Back to Avatarland - if it doesn't happen then long term it could be a positive for Animal Kingdom. However, without knowing the replacement project it's really hard to say.

To be honest, I do not recall how big of a backlash there was for Mr. Toad... I honestly didn't pay much attention to it... I read sites and posted, but I wasn't heavily involved... But there was tons of backlash about Jaws... Facebook, Twitter, and many Disney fan sites people complained... If there were more dedicated Universal fan sites, you may have felt differently about the uproar...

But I get your point... Uni rips out a classic and will replace it with something much, much better.... Disney rips out a classic and replaces it with something of lesser caliber...

 

[AvengersWDW]

The annual report from 2011 had the exact wording explaining that per guest spending and hotel capacities were down...it even had the breakdown in numbers. Profits are only up because of increase ticket, room, and food prices.

Fact. Look it up.

And my Point C was a business generalization.

What is DG land anyway?

Doom and Gloom Land...

Profit is up which is the biggest factor they look at. So they are being successful.

 

[peter11435]

The annual report from 2011 had the exact wording explaining that per guest spending and hotel capacities were down...it even had the breakdown in numbers. Profits are only up because of increase ticket, room, and food prices.

Fact. Look it up.

Revenues
Parks and Resorts revenues increased 10%, or $1 billion, to $11.8 billion due to an increase of $898 million at our domestic operations and an increase of $138 million at our international operations.

Revenue growth of 11% at our domestic operations reflected a 6% increase driven by higher average guest spending and a 3% increase due to volume driven by higher passenger cruise ship days due to the launch of our new cruise ship, the Disney Dream, in January 2011, and higher attendance. Higher guest spending was primarily due to higher average ticket prices, daily hotel room rates, and food, beverage, and merchandise spending.

I looked it up... You were wrong.

 

[imagineer boy]

Hey here's an idea, how about they JUST BUILD BEASTLY FRIGGIN KINGDOMME.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Hey here's an idea, how about they JUST BUILD BEASTLY FRIGGIN KINGDOMME.

People complain about the interest in Avatar i bet Beastly would have even less appeal to the general audience

 

[drew81]

OK, checked with a Spirited source this morning and Avatarland isn't dead ... yet. It seems to be a matter of when, not if.

Disney and Cameron have a distinct difference of opinion over how this should be done and, more importantly, how much it should cost. And because of the strange new world the movie showcases, turning this into a theme park world that isn't all screens (something Cameron put his foot down early as WDI did want a second generation Soarin where you flew on one of those dragon-creatures over and through and around Pandora as the highlight E-Ticket experience of the land) has proven very problematic.

Disney is also aware the general public (not simply crazy Disney fans who post on sites like this) gave a collective yawn to the announcement AND the two new films are behind schedule by quite a bit and knowing the perfectionist that Cameron is may be delayed by quite a while, giving Disney nothing in the pop culture of the times to play off of when the imaginary land opens.

I was told if they take this off life support to not expect any announcement 'if they can help it' ... that it will quietly be taken off the slate of working projects and hopefully no one will ask any questions.

So, I guess you can say it isn't dead ... but it's like a dying hanging upside down tree that no one is nurturing at this point ... and that fanbois want to see cut down so they can get a better view of Wishes and a fiberglass castle!

~Too much snark there?~

Someone needs to ask about this at the Shareholder's meeting.

 

[WDWFigment]

OK, checked with a Spirited source this morning and Avatarland isn't dead ... yet. It seems to be a matter of when, not if.

Disney and Cameron have a distinct difference of opinion over how this should be done and, more importantly, how much it should cost. And because of the strange new world the movie showcases, turning this into a theme park world that isn't all screens (something Cameron put his foot down early as WDI did want a second generation Soarin where you flew on one of those dragon-creatures over and through and around Pandora as the highlight E-Ticket experience of the land) has proven very problematic.

Disney is also aware the general public (not simply crazy Disney fans who post on sites like this) gave a collective yawn to the announcement AND the two new films are behind schedule by quite a bit and knowing the perfectionist that Cameron is may be delayed by quite a while, giving Disney nothing in the pop culture of the times to play off of when the imaginary land opens.

I was told if they take this off life support to not expect any announcement 'if they can help it' ... that it will quietly be taken off the slate of working projects and hopefully no one will ask any questions.

So, I guess you can say it isn't dead ... but it's like a dying hanging upside down tree that no one is nurturing at this point ... and that fanbois want to see cut down so they can get a better view of Wishes and a fiberglass castle!

~Too much snark there?~

Honestly, if true (and I assume it is given the source and in having knowledge of Cameron), this only makes me want Avatar Land MORE. That is, assuming Cameron can get his way.

While Avatar isn't my favorite franchise (haven't seen the movie as the plot doesn't appeal to me), there is no denying that Cameron is a perfectionist, and I highly doubt something of this quality will be built without Cameron. Sad that it has come to that, but it has...

If built, I'm sure the environment will be amazing and the attractions fun, regardless of whether they're associated with a franchise about which I don't care.

 

[zooey]

Well, you know what they say about hitting rock bottom... and Disney is almost there. Hopefully, they will bounce back better than ever, after Iger, after firings, after total restructuring and a new P&D strategy. It's becoming more and more obvious that they are fundamentally broken from misguided decisions over the past decade that steered away from the foundation set by Walt and those who worked for him.

In other words... Disney is on Intervention, and they either go to rehab, kick the addiction, and come back rosy, or they go back to the street to live yet another sad day doing everything they've always done.

 

[zooey]

Also, and this is out of left field, is it at all possible that Disney is looking at its own John Carter as a possible IP to replace Avatar in its parks?

If you think about it, JC is a similar property targeted at the same demo as Avatar, and then they would not have to pay royalties or deal with Cameron.

 

[SyracuseOrange]

Also, and this is out of left field, is it at all possible that Disney is looking at its own John Carter as a possible IP to replace Avatar in its parks?

If you think about it, JC is a similar property targeted at the same demo as Avatar, and then they would not have to pay royalties or deal with Cameron.

Never gonna happen. JC won't make nearly enough in earnings to warrant any future.

 

[devoy1701]

I looked it up... You were wrong.

i stand corrected. The terminology was for FY2010. This year's report doesn't go into as much detail on the Per Capita guest spending, though it does still show Hotel Occupancy unchanged from last year at only 82%, which you can deduce in conjuncture with the excerpt you provided that the increased in revenues is primarily because of ticket prices and hotel costs since occupancy hasn't gone up.

Attendance is still below the levels from even just 2 years ago too since in 2010 they had a 1% decrease in attendance and last year they only had a 1% increase. A 1% drop from a higher number is greater than a 1% increase of a lower number. Given which I would estimate that attendance is down at around 2007 levels.

 

[zooey]

Never gonna happen. JC won't make nearly enough in earnings to warrant any future.

Well, to be fair, it hasn't opened yet and it's getting moderate to good reviews so far.