Say.... What if Avatarland got cancelled?

[WDW1974]

If the project was canceled, that question would not have been answered.

Not at all true.

Really. Sometimes I think I'm dealing with sheeple that will grab ahold of any tidbit of information to justify their view of reality.

But the project hasn't been officially canceled ... yet.

This is absolutely status quo and the issue is some want to believe a status quo that has Disney and Cameron working on groundbreaking stuff for DAK that will be built without a doubt, while others know that hasn't been the case at all.

Again, you can believe it will happen when vertical construction begins (when last I heard that had been pushed back to late 2013 at the earliest).

Gullible.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Imagineer Joe Rohde comments on AVATAR land

http://www.wdwmagic.com/Attractions...agineer-Joe-Rohde-comments-on-AVATAR-land.htm

"All of us who are designers have an opportunity to take the work we are given and make it something unexpected. That’s how we help the company to grow and expand into new areas."

Dont get me wrong cause I hope they build it and it's a great thing, but....that statement sounds to me to be from someone not to thrilled with the project.

 

[celluloid]

"All of us who are designers have an opportunity to take the work we are given and make it something unexpected. That’s how we help the company to grow and expand into new areas."

Dont get me wrong cause I hope they build it and it's a great thing, but....that statement sounds to me to be from someone not to thrilled with the project.

Same here. Something seems kind of off or less than enthusiastic about it in that writing's voice. Kind of ho hum. That is very unusual for anyone that has seen Joe Rhode talk about the work he loves and how he is really a passionate Imagineer that you want with the company.

It is part of a tiny paragraph that just kind of reads like what Iger said a few weeks ago. No doubt this was put out again to remind people it is still coming. Yet it is supposed to be opening in three years and we don't have a single simple piece of concept art, or concept description at all. I am not even thinking of attractions or anything but like an overhead shot of where it will be in Animal Kingdom with a vague description and graphic on the map.

It is funny how Iger said 2015 but old reports say the area would not be expected to start until 2013 and take three years to complete according to reports that initially surfaced back in September. Those same reports have Disney saying it would take about three years to complete.

 

[HenryMystic]

Not at all true.

Really. Sometimes I think I'm dealing with sheeple that will grab ahold of any tidbit of information to justify their view of reality.

But the project hasn't been officially canceled ... yet.

This is absolutely status quo and the issue is some want to believe a status quo that has Disney and Cameron working on groundbreaking stuff for DAK that will be built without a doubt, while others know that hasn't been the case at all.

Again, you can believe it will happen when vertical construction begins (when last I heard that had been pushed back to late 2013 at the earliest).

Gullible.

Very clever and calculated of the Parks Blog to include the Avatar blurb. Maybe they do know what they're doing.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Very clever and calculated of the Parks Blog to include the Avatar blurb. Maybe they do know what they're doing.

That Avatarland is having problems is obvious, Iger didn't mention it during the shareholder meeting until he was specifically asked. If they wanted to draw interest in the project, then they would release some concept art.

As Cameron and Disney have different expectations of what Avatarland will be, it might be some time until a creative agreement is reached, if ever. Cameron will want the land to exactly replicate Pandora, which borders on being cost prohibitive. A reasonable compromise would be to start off with a single ride. Supposedly Cameron nixed a "Soarin' Over Pandora" type ride, and I can't blame him.

Joe Rohdes is a great imagineer, and obviously he is involved with seeing what can be salvage/created . . . but he wouldn't be at liberty to say the project is cancelled as it may survive in development hell for years without any real progress.

Does Disney want to snub Cameron by pulling the plug? Heck no, they'll tell him that they need to continue working together to find a compromise, even if they know in their heart of hearts that the project is dead. Why offend Cameron? He has a lot of muscle in Hollywood, and Disney might want to partner with him on a movie in the future.

Personally, I thin that while an Avatar ride might work, betting a whole land on the concept could fail. You need generic lands where rides can easily be replaced and retooled as needed. What do they do if fifteen years from now Avatar is history and people are tired of looking at a whole land decked out like Pandora? Adventureland, Frontierland, these are timeless themes, Pandora . . . not so much.

 

[xdan0920]

POP


There goes another rumor being spread by those "in the know". Gotta love it. :lol:

:sohappy:

I could be wrong, though I don't think I am, but, no one has said AV-Land was cancelled. Just that it was at least moving slowly, and at worst close to being cut altogether.

This small one line quote does nothing to dispel that. The point that those "in the know" were making is that AV-Land is not a sure thing. And until we actually see some physical progress, we can not be sure they are moving forward.

 

[Scuttle]

Why didn't somebody ask him a question people care about, like: "Hey! When are you going to fix the Yeti?"

As for Avatar Land, who cares. I'll ignore it, just like I pretty much ignore AK anyway...

I know, I wish someone asked him about the Yeti. To be honest Iger seemed pretty clueless about the parks and the Fantasyland expansion. To me backing what 74 and others have said that he isn't personally invested in the parks. It does seem like he's on cruise control and is waiting his day to be in public office.

 

[jt04]

I could be wrong, though I don't think I am, but, no one has said AV-Land was cancelled. Just that it was at least moving slowly, and at worst close to being cut altogether.

This small one line quote does nothing to dispel that. The point that those "in the know" were making is that AV-Land is not a sure thing. And until we actually see some physical progress, we can not be sure they are moving forward.

Yes I understand this and do not believe it. But those spreading the rumor are painted in the corner whether they admit it or not. Of course they think they can just say they were right once ground-breaking occurs by claiming it was a close call and almost got canceled.

Examine James Cameron's track record closely. Enough said.

 

[Disneybear]

Same here. Something seems kind of off or less than enthusiastic about it in that writing's voice. Kind of ho hum. That is very unusual for anyone that has seen Joe Rhode talk about the work he loves and how he is really a passionate Imagineer that you want with the company.

It is part of a tiny paragraph that just kind of reads like what Iger said a few weeks ago. No doubt this was put out again to remind people it is still coming. Yet it is supposed to be opening in three years and we don't have a single simple piece of concept art, or concept description at all. I am not even thinking of attractions or anything but like an overhead shot of where it will be in Animal Kingdom with a vague description and graphic on the map.

It is funny how Iger said 2015 but old reports say the area would not be expected to start until 2013 and take three years to complete according to reports that initially surfaced back in September. Those same reports have Disney saying it would take about three years to complete.

I think you are unlikely to see any real concept art or hear about any concepts until they have actually decided what they are going to build.
If they released concept art for an idea then because of financial / capacity / maintenance or safety issues had to shelve that and progress another idea, there would be uproar on here and other sites complaining about how everyone preferred one of the other concepts and how Disney was cheapening out and such.

Much easier for them just to release the concept art once their proposals are locked in and present us with a 'fait accompli'.

 

[devoy1701]

errrm, that really didn't give me any confidence that AVland will happen. It just sounds like an Imagineer who's answering a simple question, not dispelling anything. He's just saying the prospect is exciting.

I agree here...I didn't check the thread until this morning, but I read the blib after Steve linked it on Fbook...after reading it I didn't feel like it told me one way or another about anything...

The interview is also from the official company blog. Why would there be anything but the official story? He just give a vague generalization.

Official as in marketing and social media spin that feeds into their 10million likes on Facebook...easy way to say something and spread the word to the less than serious park fans. I'm not sure why we're supposed to think this means anything at all besides everyone in the company is supposed to answer questions vaguely in the tune that Avland is happening until someone official comes out that it's not. As Dan said, no one here EVER said that it was cancelled...just that it was stalled, they can't agree on specifics, and is definitely at risk of being cancelled.

Not at all true.

Really. Sometimes I think I'm dealing with sheeple that will grab ahold of any tidbit of information to justify their view of reality.

But the project hasn't been officially canceled ... yet.

This is absolutely status quo and the issue is some want to believe a status quo that has Disney and Cameron working on groundbreaking stuff for DAK that will be built without a doubt, while others know that hasn't been the case at all.

Again, you can believe it will happen when vertical construction begins (when last I heard that had been pushed back to late 2013 at the earliest).

Gullible.

truer words could not be spoken at this point.

 

[devoy1701]

I think you are unlikely to see any real concept art or hear about any concepts until they have actually decided what they are going to build.
If they released concept art for an idea then because of financial / capacity / maintenance or safety issues had to shelve that and progress another idea, there would be uproar on here and other sites complaining about how everyone preferred one of the other concepts and how Disney was cheapening out and such.

Much easier for them just to release the concept art once their proposals are locked in and present us with a 'fait accompli'.

I hate beating the dead horses on here...but again, we've been given concept art for ideas that were much more bluesky than this. It's so uncharacteristic of Imagineering....just like Rhodes' less than optimistic comment is uncharacteristic of him.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes I understand this and do not believe it. But those spreading the rumor are painted in the corner whether the afmit it or not. Of course they think they can just say they were right once ground-breaking occurs by claiming it was a close call and almost got canceled.

Like how you always say "I think I know what they're doing" and "What I thought was right" but never divulge specifics?

If they released concept art for an idea then because of financial / capacity / maintenance or safety issues had to shelve that and progress another idea, there would be uproar on here and other sites complaining about how everyone preferred one of the other concepts and how Disney was cheapening out and such.

Much easier for them just to release the concept art once their proposals are locked in and present us with a 'fait accompli'.

The Blue Sky Cellar has always had "misleading" concept art and the Disneyland fans are much more active and vocal.

 

[jt04]

Like how you always say "I think I know what they're doing" and "What I thought was right" but never divulge specifics?

I always say that I do not have insider connections of any sort. My thoughts are based on experience and observation and are solely my opinion.

Too often some, not all, of the people who claim inside information get it completely wrong and then never admit they were wrong. Rather they suddenly get amnesia. That would not bother me at all but often they spread rumors that paint people or projects in a negative light and they never take responsibility when they turn out to be wrong. Good information should never be confused with wishful thinking. And torturing the facts to prove oneself right will prove futile in the end.

On a side note, companies sometimes release "insider info" that is untrue to chase down leaks or deceive the competition. Just saying.

 

[celluloid]

I think you are unlikely to see any real concept art or hear about any concepts until they have actually decided what they are going to build.
If they released concept art for an idea then because of financial / capacity / maintenance or safety issues had to shelve that and progress another idea, there would be uproar on here and other sites complaining about how everyone preferred one of the other concepts and how Disney was cheapening out and such.

Much easier for them just to release the concept art once their proposals are locked in and present us with a 'fait accompli'.

I see what you are saying and it makes sense but in this particular case we have known about this Avatar deal since the early September of 2011. They were so quick to shove their excitement for their money making venture and could not wait to get more artistic and creative value into it. You can't do that and just keep absolutely silent for six months with absolutely no news except "we are still excited to be working on it" when you already told everyone it would be a 400 million dollar expansion. If anything then their mistake was pushing the news out there because they had nothing else worthy of getting attention of the parks besides the expansion that was already well underway and entering its last eight months of construction.


Universal with The Wizarding World announced the news on May 31st 2007. Now that is almost 3 years and a month from the day it would officially open. It was a webcast from the studio set of Dumbledore's office where Scott Trowbridge, then for Universal Creative was sitting with Stuart Craig sharing their excitement for the development of what they were going to bring to life with Harry Potter. Examples of the kinds of things you would be seeing were given in general ideas but nothing spoiler oriented. It had people talking until visible signs of construction occurred and more concept art was released.

I am all for Disney doing this right and giving Imagineers huge creative budgets to do things but I doubt Joe Rhode is all that happy about a huge chunk of the park under Cameron's creative control. They are never going to have full freedom with budgeting, and now not only do they have the struggles to typically fight against with that concept, they also have James Cameron who is going to have to approve of everything.

Again though, if it is true that construction will not start until 2013 we have a long while to wait. With this meaning the attraction will not open until some time in 2016.

Just a side note, that leaves Animal Kingdom without a new attraction for ten years.

 

[xdan0920]

Yes I understand this and do not believe it. But those spreading the rumor are painted in the corner whether they admit it or not. Of course they think they can just say they were right once ground-breaking occurs by claiming it was a close call and almost got canceled.

Examine James Cameron's track record closely. Enough said.

What does his track record have to do with anything? What is his track record when working with Disney Parks? He has none. There is no apples to apple comparison to be made.

 

[jt04]

What does his track record have to do with anything? What is his track record when working with Disney Parks? He has none. There is no apples to apple comparison to be made.

It is just that he does not fail at anything he puts his name on. And, oh by the way, he does have some theme park experience.

Not to get sidetracked, but I wish TWDC would consider allowing the Living Seas to be influenced by Cameron. If not as a 'guest Imagineer' necessarily (although that would be great) but perhaps he would allow Disney to incorporate some of his intellectual properties within the pavilion. I know he cares about educating people about the ocean and what better place than EPCOT. It would literally allow millions of people to virtually experience the science of oceanography, biology, and new marine technologies. Seems like a perfect fit for both parties.

 

[ChrisM]

Disney and Cameron are wrangling over what to design and build, otherwise we would already have concept art and a general design overview.

Are these just differences of opinion and vision that will eventually be worked by both sides? Possibly.

Are they at a complete impasse? It's likely only the principals know this.

The real question is whether boths sides are actively engaged and still meeting and communicating or has a line in the sand been drawn and one side is still formulating their response? I'd hope our "insiders" should be able to inform us of this status one way or another, otherwise it sounds like someone just overheard someone at lunch grousing that "things weren't looking very good", which coud mean any of a thousand things based on my experiences with corporate gossip.

 

[jt04]

Disney and Cameron are wrangling over what to design and build, otherwise we would already have concept art and a general design overview.

Are these just differences of opinion and vision that will eventually be worked by both sides? Possibly.

Are they at a complete impasse? It's likely only the principals know this.

The real question is whether boths sides are actively engaged and still meeting and communicating or has a line in the sand been drawn and one side is still formulating their response? I'd hope our "insiders" should be able to inform us of this status one way or another, otherwise it sounds like someone just overheard someone at lunch grousing that "things weren't looking very good", which coud mean any of a thousand things based on my experiences with corporate gossip.

Sorry, I just do not believe it until we have it confirmed by Disney or someone with a track record like Steve or Raven or Martin.

 

[stitch2008]

Disney and Cameron are wrangling over what to design and build, otherwise we would already have concept art and a general design overview.

Are these just differences of opinion and vision that will eventually be worked by both sides? Possibly.

Are they at a complete impasse? It's likely only the principals know this.

The real question is whether boths sides are actively engaged and still meeting and communicating or has a line in the sand been drawn and one side is still formulating their response? I'd hope our "insiders" should be able to inform us of this status one way or another, otherwise it sounds like someone just overheard someone at lunch grousing that "things weren't looking very good", which coud mean any of a thousand things based on my experiences with corporate gossip.

Why does everyone expect concept art now? The land isn't expected to break ground until next year. They still have a lot of design work to do. They probably don't want to show you art until everything(every little thing) is locked down. They don't want another Fantasyland situation where first art was released and then things changed.

The design process is very boring to be honest. It's just drawing after drawing. Test after test. I've been through this process(with other parks) before. It all starts out exciting, but it gets so boring to see similar drawings over and over again.

To put this all into perspective for you guys, many of the major rides in the industry take about two years to design. Some have taken as many as 5 years. So it's not surprising to me that we haven't seen any concept art.


BTW, he is a video of Cameron on creating the Avatar game. It's a different situation, but it does reflect how he collaborates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsfjoxheUU&list=FL-y0dAnyobIYlBH9vjQGNAw&index=25&feature=plpp_video

 

[stitch2008]

ChrisM. One more thing.

Cameron has been really busy recently with all his other adventures. Mariana Trench dive/documentary, Working on Titanic re-release, and working with WETA in New Zealand on Avatar 2 and 3. He's a pretty busy guy. So I'm sure they still are talking. But I don't know if face to face meetings are possible given his schedule; and the fact that 20th Century Fox wants Avatar 2 and 3 to get rolling faster.